Well I think Seguin and Benn are a great combo, but I'll take Halls speed and five v five production. It's too bad we'll never get to see McDavid and Hall as a combo, but I'm sure if you give Hall a full time centre of Seguin's quality he'd the scoring title too.
- JTanner

Well I think Seguin and Benn are a great combo, but I'll take Halls speed and five v five production. It's too bad we'll never get to see McDavid and Hall as a combo, but I'm sure if you give Hall a full time centre of Seguin's quality he'd the scoring title too.
- JTanner

puckanalytics 5v5close

hall
individual goals/60 0.74
games 381
goals 42
team goals/60 2.1

benn
individual goals/60 1.16
games 507
goals 83
team goals/60 2.28


seguin
individual goals/60 1.02
games 426
goals 61
team goals/60 2.49

That's ridiculous, but I like Marchand too. Here's a list of players Hall is better than:

Perry, Stamkos, Getzlaf, Giroux, Toews, Benn, Carter, Marchand, Seguin.

Crosby, Bergeron, Thornton and Tavares. That's the only guys better than Hall.

Of course, this is just my opinion.
- JTanner

Things that make more sense than this post:

1) Dumpster fires
2) Byzantine poetry
3) An abandoned mattress on the side of the road
4) Scott Hoy
5) Bronie conventions

Poor Taylor Hall. He had to get stuck with RNH as his center

I can't imagine what kind of production he'd have if he played with a real center.

1) If there's seven, then don't say full. That's simply wrong.

2) You act like there's a bevy of high-end Fins in the NHL and Team Finland just decided not to use them.
- Rinosaur

Did MLJ get banned and you're his alt? Same hockey knowledge, same pedantic (ironically wrong) "gotcha attitude." 94% certain it's the same guy. Either way, it's clear the best way to deal with you is to ignore you.

puckanalytics 5v5close

hall
individual goals/60 0.74
games 381
goals 42
team goals/60 2.1

benn
individual goals/60 1.16
games 507
goals 83
team goals/60 2.28


seguin
individual goals/60 1.02
games 426
goals 61
team goals/60 2.49



- Tumbleweed

Those are pretty misleading because Hall has never played in the NHL on a team that wasn't complete crap. He is 9th in 5v5 scoring over the last 3 years, 23 points behind Crosby and having played less games then everyone ahead of him.

Those are pretty misleading because Hall has never played in the NHL on a team that wasn't complete crap. He is 9th in 5v5 scoring over the last 3 years, 23 points behind Crosby and having played less games then everyone ahead of him.
- JTanner

My stats = jamie benn
Your stats = jeff petry

http://video.stars.nhl.co...nsole?id=2015020489-448-h

Those are pretty misleading because Hall has never played in the NHL on a team that wasn't complete crap. He is 9th in 5v5 scoring over the last 3 years, 23 points behind Crosby and having played less games then everyone ahead of him.
- JTanner

Even when someone uses stats to prove their point (just as you do), you still figure out a way to say they are wrong. You can ask any HB member whom they think is better Hall or Seguin, Hall or Benn and 99% would say Seguin/Benn every time. Hall is a good winger but is not in the same caliber as Benn or Seguin. (Would like to add Toews to the list aswell)

Did MLJ get banned and you're his alt? Same hockey knowledge, same pedantic (ironically wrong) "gotcha attitude." 94% certain it's the same guy. Either way, it's clear the best way to deal with you is to ignore you.
- JTanner

I'm not sure who MLJ is, so no, I'm not him/her.

Yes, you should ignore me and deal with people who just agree with you.

Even when someone uses stats to prove their point (just as you do), you still figure out a way to say they are wrong. You can ask any HB member whom they think is better Hall or Seguin, Hall or Benn and 99% would say Seguin/Benn every time. Hall is a good winger but is not in the same caliber as Benn or Seguin. (Would like to add Toews to the list aswell)
- willdjr75

Well if they're wrong, they're wrong. Hall compares favorably to every player in the NHL. Once again, he scored just 23 less points than Crosby at 5v5 over a three year period while driving possession and player good defense.

He is incredibly underrated and I think anyone who doesn't agree that if he had been gifted teams with deep veteren leadership like Seguin, that Hall would enjoy a better reputation today.

Sorry, but I don't see anyone making a good argument against Hall. They clearly think just because the Oilers were bad that so is he.

Well if they're wrong, they're wrong. Hall compares favorably to every player in the NHL. Once again, he scored just 23 less points than Crosby at 5v5 over a three year period while driving possession and player good defense.

He is incredibly underrated and I think anyone who doesn't agree that if he had been gifted teams with deep veteren leadership like Seguin, that Hall would enjoy a better reputation today.

Sorry, but I don't see anyone making a good argument against Hall. They clearly think just because the Oilers were bad that so is he.
- James_Tanner

And this sums up, what people who disagree with you, are saying. You continually cherry-pick stats to prove points. And when your own stats (and line of reasoning) are used against you, the goalposts get moved. Take Patrick Kane for example. You switch from going on a purely stats based argument to Kane isn't that good because he plays "sheltered" minutes. The absurdity of your statement is quite obvious to even a novice hockey fan, but more importantly, your whole line of reasoning gets thrown out the window.

But the bolded comment really emphasizes it all. You not only disregard stats when they disprove or contradict your point, you marginalize the counter-point be saying they all clearly think a certain way. It's logical fallacy 101.

Well if they're wrong, they're wrong. Hall compares favorably to every player in the NHL. Once again, he scored just 23 less points than Crosby at 5v5 over a three year period while driving possession and player good defense.

He is incredibly underrated and I think anyone who doesn't agree that if he had been gifted teams with deep veteren leadership like Seguin, that Hall would enjoy a better reputation today.

Sorry, but I don't see anyone making a good argument against Hall. They clearly think just because the Oilers were bad that so is he.
- James_Tanner

No one is arguing that Hall isn't one of the premier wingers in the game. I think we're just questioning the dubiousness of whether he deserves to be ranked ahead of Jamie Benn - a first team all-star and Art Ross trophy winner who has - dare I say it? - managed to score more than 30... *cough*... 27 goals multiple times.

I think what we have to be very careful about is confirmation bias - cherry picking specific statistics that advance the narrative we want to project (you could argue my goals metric above is just that!). We're all likely guilty of it because we like so-and-so more than whats-his-name.

Having said that, it is curious that Team Canada executives passed over Taylor Hall in the initial selection for the team and then passed over him again when roster spots presented themselves again. Why is that? Do we actually feel that Team Canada has not gone through a thoughtful process in player selection? That they've ignored advanced statistics and other metrics in their decision making process? Granted, Canada's management team is not infallible and susceptible to biases as well -- but it is curious that multiple opportunities presented themselves to take Hall on to the team and he was still left off. Is there something else we don't know about Taylor? Is he truly a "cancer" in the dressing room? I doubt this last point as he has played for Canada multiple times during his career (including a very successful 2015 tournament finishing 3rd in scoring).