The crazy thing is that Goul still hasnt done squat.


- jak521

Puh-leez...did you see that left handed bomb he threw?

That's a contradiction. If it is impossible to pick player A vs. player B or C and say we should've had that guy, which I agree with, then it also impossible to hypothetically say we could've taken a player later in the 5th round. If you think a player is going to be a player that you like, and think he can help down the line, then there is nothing wrong with taking the player at that spot.
- MJL

They are going to draft someone that they think can help them down the line regardless. No one picks a guy expecting him to bomb. They each have strengths and weaknesses that teams work with. Whether or not we could've picked him later is completely irrelevant. Had the Flyers focused on drafting more skill, we could be sitting here talking about a guy who shined in the rookie game for his playmaking ability instead of punching someone in the face.

The crazy thing is that Goul still hasnt done squat.

I think there are about 6-8 guys still ahead of him on that bottom 6 spot fight.

You have guys like Bardreau, Fazleev, Leier, NAK and a vet like McDonald.

You have current competition like Weal, VDV and that new russian kid.

Goul's development has been incredible, not predictable.
- jak521

Goulbourne has played 1 year of professional hockey. I don't think it was ever expected for him to fast track into the NHL.

Obviously a bit easier to play GM from a computer seat, but they could have also offered up trading down a few spots to acquire a 4th and 5th. I know, it does take two to tango.

And, there is also the possibility that at the time of the draft, the Flyers thought Goul had some untapped offensive talent that would come later in development. Or, they knew of another team that was looking to draft him before their pick in the 5th round. Or, they summed up who was left on the board, and in their estimation, no player had a high enough ceiling (in their eyes), so they went with the 'safe' pick.
- VladDrag

Absolutely, that is all possible. Still, for me personally, I would have targeted a player who had more potential upside. When you are drafting outside of the first 2 rounds, it's basically a crapshoot that the player will ever play an NHL game, and the odds get worse as you go further. Since that's the case, I'll take the crapshoot on the player with the best skillset, not the player most likely to be a 4th liner.

They are going to draft someone that they think can help them down the line regardless. No one picks a guy expecting him to bomb. They each have strengths and weaknesses that teams work with. Whether or not we could've picked him later is completely irrelevant. Had the Flyers focused on drafting more skill, we could be sitting here talking about a guy who shined in the rookie game for his playmaking ability instead of punching someone in the face.
- YuenglingJagr

Yeah, now had he scored a shorthanded goal and/or had an assist, that would be different.

They are going to draft someone that they think can help them down the line regardless. No one picks a guy expecting him to bomb. They each have strengths and weaknesses that teams work with. Whether or not we could've picked him later is completely irrelevant. Had the Flyers focused on drafting more skill, we could be sitting here talking about a guy who shined in the rookie game for his playmaking ability instead of punching someone in the face.
- YuenglingJagr

You're not considering the jump to the NHL as a factor. Highly skilled guys tend to shine in rookie pre season games. What we'd be talking about is irrelevant. How many of those skilled guys who shined in rookie games, never make the NHL? If whether or not we could pick him later is irrelevant, then why state that they could've picked him in the 5th round? Chris Pryor doesn't agree with that, by the way.

Goulbourne has played 1 year of professional hockey. I don't think it was ever expected for him to fast track into the NHL.
- MJL

Per his point, although he has a shot, he is currently toward the back of the line in "potential NHL player" on the depth chart. If he continues to progress, he'll climg towards the front, but he has to leap-frog a good amount of players.

Yeah, now had he scored a shorthanded goal and/or had an assist, that would be different.
- jmatchett383

so much skillz

I agree.

I mean the draft is hard. It's projected 17-18 year olds and where they might be in 3-4, 5 years for your team.

I do find it funny though that this Golhbourne pick seems to be critiqued all the time like it is the pick that determine if the franchise will succeed. I mean yes, they used a 3rd round pick on Goulbourne but they were also able to find a undrafted player like bardreau, martel, Myers.

I think the Flyers do do a good job of finding the right balance in selections.
- J35Bacher

I think that this gets discussed a bit because there is no 'right' way to think of drafting, as you allude to in your post. I think people will always hold their opinion in higher regards to others, which is fine, as long as that person is respectable about it.

Yeah, now had he scored a shorthanded goal and/or had an assist, that would be different.
- jmatchett383

Goulbourne has played no NHL games yet. If he eventually makes the lineup and turns into say Andrew Shaw or Vernon Fiddler type player, will the pick be a good pick?

Absolutely, that is all possible. Still, for me personally, I would have targeted a player who had more potential upside. When you are drafting outside of the first 2 rounds, it's basically a crapshoot that the player will ever play an NHL game, and the odds get worse as you go further. Since that's the case, I'll take the crapshoot on the player with the best skillset, not the player most likely to be a 4th liner.
- jmatchett383

Oh for sure, we're on the same page.

Per his point, although he has a shot, he is currently toward the back of the line in "potential NHL player" on the depth chart. If he continues to progress, he'll climg towards the front, but he has to leap-frog a good amount of players.
- jmatchett383

That list is speculative, and is often based on age, and experience. Players like Leier, who are further along in the development curve, of course are going to be ahead in the depth chart.

Goulbourne has played no NHL games yet. If he eventually makes the lineup and turns into say Andrew Shaw or Vernon Fiddler type player, will the pick be a good pick?
- J35Bacher

No

Goulbourne has played 1 year of professional hockey. I don't think it was ever expected for him to fast track into the NHL.
- MJL

Okay.. so he has played one year of professional hockey. Why do you keep making the arguement that you would take a guy who plays in the bottom 6 of an NHL team than a guy who has high skill and never plays in the NHL.

That isnt the case here.

In fact its quite opposite the case. People are saying that they would rather (in the top 3 rounds specifically) take a shot a talent. Because, all things are equal in that there is no guarantee that either player will make it. However, if one WERE to make it, they would rather it be the one who offers more than just a physical display.

Goul was a huge stretch in the 3rd. There were other guys who had fallen and/or had some question but offered a projectable skill set.

Thats what people want to see happen.

I remember leading up to this pick, myself and a few others were hoping that we could land a guy like Bjorkstrand or Andrighetto. Instead we opted for the physical and grinding jammer type in Goul.

It is very, very likely that a player with Gouls skillset/scoring prowess would be around at the very least another round. Why not wait. That is what we want to see happen. Take a flier on a guy like Bjorkstrand, and see that there will be 25 Goul-like players available later on.

Goulbourne has played no NHL games yet. If he eventually makes the lineup and turns into say Andrew Shaw or Vernon Fiddler type player, will the pick be a good pick?
- J35Bacher

What he turns out to be can't be the way you view it. Much like a trade, looking back 5 years down the road can't be how you view it.

Edit: The 1st for Eminger trade wasn't a horrible trade because of what John Carlson has become. It was a terrible trade because Steve Eminger wasn't worth a 2nd round pick, let alone a first.

That list is speculative, and is often based on age, and experience. Players like Leier, who are further along in the development curve, of course are going to be ahead in the depth chart.
- MJL

and skill

I think we all learned a valuable lesson here today.

I think we all learned a valuable lesson here today.
- Streit2ThePoint

I'm right, and everyone else is wrong?

I think we all learned a valuable lesson here today.
- Streit2ThePoint

You're just now waking up from your birthday party?

You're just now waking up from your birthday party?
- YuenglingJagr

"Gerbils hurt more on the way out."

"Gerbils hurt more on the way out."
- jmatchett383

That list is speculative, and is often based on age, and experience. Players like Leier, who are further along in the development curve, of course are going to be ahead in the depth chart.
- MJL

Leier is a bad example considering that Goul is a month older than him.

He was drafted his first year of eligibility because he had a better projectable skill set. Goul actually had his first taste of WHL experience before Leier. He had his first taste of AHL experience AFTER Leier because again, Leier had the more projectable skillset.

Also, oddly enough, Leier was a 4th round pick, selected 28 spots after Goul would be selected the next year.

The point I think we all are trying to make is that we would rather see us go after guys LIKE Leier in the mid rounds then a guy like Goul.

I think we all learned a valuable lesson here today.
- Streit2ThePoint

when in doubt, pinky out?

You're just now waking up from your birthday party?
- YuenglingJagr

I had a fabulous dinner with Ladd followed by a quaint gondola ride down the Delaware river.

when in doubt, pinky out?
- BulliesPhan87

Yuppie scum