have to admit Goulbourne always seems to win his fights....wonder if there's a fourth line spot for this kid? maybe not at the start of the year...but perhaps sometimes during the season. All reports I read on the kid were decent...but is he an NHL talent?
- landros 2

Goulbourne will be an everyday NHL at some point.

I'd throw him in the mix for a 4th line spot in camp. This year, it seems like there's some actual competition for a few spots as opposed to the last few years where the lineup was pretty much set the first day of camp (aside from AMac). I still don't think he'll ever be more than a 4th liner at the NHL level, but he's definitely rounded out his game and I've come around on him a bit.
- jmatchett383

rather him have 1 more year in the AHL to work on his all around game. He has established himself somewhat as a tough customer. Now focus on the skill and other areas.

rather him have 1 more year in the AHL to work on his all around game. He has established himself somewhat as a tough customer. Now focus on the skill and other areas.
- rinaldo

Even as a WHL overager on a good Kelowna team, he never put up big numbers. I do think he could play limited 4th line minutes in the NHL, but probably not a regular shift at this point. If he can work on his game, he could possibly develop into a 4th line checker/PK player.

Even as a WHL overager on a good Kelowna team, he never put up big numbers. I do think he could play limited 4th line minutes in the NHL, but probably not a regular shift at this point. If he can work on his game, he could possibly develop into a 4th line checker/PK player.
- jmatchett383

he will never bee a point producer by any means. I think in time he can be a regular 4th liner. He has the other attributes imo. By no means a finished product or lock mind you.

The kid is smart and wants it. Love his attitude.

Re Ghoul's punch, he certainly set him up for that. I would imagine he's done that move before...a pseudo rope-a-dope move.

I didn't like the pick in the 3rd round. That's more personal opinion than the actual player himself. I would prefer to pick a player with more skill or a higher ceiling that may be a big of a 'project'.

With all that said, he's turned into a good pick and looks like he'll get a chance to compete for an NHL bottom-6 role soon.

he will never bee a point producer by any means. I think in time he can be a regular 4th liner. He has the other attributes imo. By no means a finished product or lock mind you.

The kid is smart and wants it. Love his attitude.
- rinaldo

The reason I brought up points was due to something Bill said about Ryan Parent.

I'm paraphrasing, but in general, any player who has NHL-level talent should be able to be at least moderately successful at the junior/NCAA level simply due to his natural talent. Basically, an NHL 4th liner should be near the top of the team in scoring in juniors because he's just better than your average CHL player. Ryan Parent was the prime example.

As much as I respect and usually agree with Bill, he's not a scout, and is by no means the bottom line of player evaluation. And I'm not saying Goulborune won't be an everyday NHL player, and obviously scoring is not his thing. However, his lack of WHL scoring should be a flag, albeit a minor one for a player like him. Wayne Simmonds never put up monster numbers at the OHL level, but he also didn't play an overage season as a 20-year-old playing against high school kids.

Re Ghoul's punch, he certainly set him up for that. I would imagine he's done that move before...a pseudo rope-a-dope move.

I didn't like the pick in the 3rd round. That's more personal opinion than the actual player himself. I would prefer to pick a player with more skill or a higher ceiling that may be a big of a 'project'.

With all that said, he's turned into a good pick and looks like he'll get a chance to compete for an NHL bottom-6 role soon.
- VladDrag

I'll take a player picked in the 3rd round who winds up being a 4th line NHL player, over a player picked with more skill or a higher ceiling, that never makes the NHL.

The reason I brought up points was due to something Bill said about Ryan Parent.

I'm paraphrasing, but in general, any player who has NHL-level talent should be able to be at least moderately successful at the junior/NCAA level simply due to his natural talent. Basically, an NHL 4th liner should be near the top of the team in scoring in juniors because he's just better than your average CHL player. Ryan Parent was the prime example.

As much as I respect and usually agree with Bill, he's not a scout, and is by no means the bottom line of player evaluation. And I'm not saying Goulborune won't be an everyday NHL player, and obviously scoring is not his thing. However, his lack of WHL scoring should be a flag, albeit a minor one for a player like him. Wayne Simmonds never put up monster numbers at the OHL level, but he also didn't play an overage season as a 20-year-old playing against high school kids.
- jmatchett383

I hear ya. Sometimes heart and attitude can make up for some things. Though there is no analytical tool to confirm my opinion!!!!

so the Flyers/Caps rookie game drew like 10,000 people a few seasons ago at the Wells Fargo. Those bleachers looked pretty empty.

I hear ya. Sometimes heart and attitude can make up for some things. Though there is no analytical tool to confirm my opinion!!!!
- rinaldo

Absolutely it can. And as long as he's a Flyers' prospect, I'll be happy to see him keep progressing.

I'll take a player picked in the 3rd round who winds up being a 4th line NHL player, over a player picked with more skill or a higher ceiling, that never makes the NHL.
- MJL

what about a player with more skill or a higher ceiling that does make the nhl

I'll take a player picked in the 3rd round who winds up being a 4th line NHL player, over a player picked with more skill or a higher ceiling, that never makes the NHL.
- MJL

For sure, I get that and don't disagree with it.

My general philosophy is in the first 3 rounds, I'd prefer to pick a player with a higher ceiling. Acquiring role playing talent is easier than acquiring high level talent. I would rather give my team a higher chance to grow high level talent within the system.

That does not mean I don't like Ghoul, or don't give him props, just my personal opinion on drafting in general. I'm happy that he's a decent prospect for us.

what about a player with more skill or a higher ceiling that does make the nhl
- Crimsoninja

I'll give you two guesses.

And now, my all time hardest working Flyer's team. These aren't just the guys that worked the hardest on the ice, but also the guys who seemed to work the hardest at improving their game and would play through pain to do so.

Goal
Ron Hextall
Steve Mason
No one worked harder on the ice and gave his all more than Hexy, and perhaps no current Flyer works any harder at constantly improving his game than Mase.

Defense
Kimmo Timonen
The Finnish warrior gave it all, every moment, every shift, every game and often played through excruciating pain to do it

Barry Ashbee
He was basically the Flyers Kimmo of the 70s. Once demanded a trade because he thought his teammates didn't train and work hard enough. He was the soul of the Bullies.

Mark Howe
Howe was able to transform himself from a top flight scoring winger into one of the best all situation Dmen to ever play the game. You don't do what he did, especially at nearly 30 minutes a night, without working your tail off!

Brad Marsh
He wasn't blessed with god given talent, but man, was he blessed with a god given work ethic. He gave everything he had, every night.

Jimmy Watson
Another guy who was able to succeed while playing through crippling pain. Jimmy Watson quietly led the Flyers D for many years and always left it all on the ice.

Eric Desjardins
Similar to Watson, he was a quiet inspiration and another guy who was always working at ways to improve his game.

Centers
Bobby Clarke
No one, ever, in the history of the NHL, worked any harder than Clarke. No one. Case closed.

Rod Brind'amour
His training sessions are legendary and he led by hard work and example for 20 years. They don't make em like that anymore

Dave Poulin
Poulin also played through injuries that would have put many guys in the hospital and, like most everyone on this list, he left it all on the ice. He was also as classy a guy as you will ever meet.

Claude Giroux
Giroux really impressed me last year. He gave up some of his offense game to become a better 200 foot player and set the example for the rest of the team when it came to properly playing Hak's system. For a little guy, he's tough as nails and he never quits.

Left Wing
Sami Kapanen
Yeah, he played RW more than LW, but I wanted to get 4 other guys on the RW list so there you have it. Sami was 170 lbs of pure heart and effort.

Shjon Podein
Podein was another guy who worked just as hard off the ice and in practice to improve his game, as he did when the spotlights were on. He was perhaps the hardest working player of the Lindros era

Bill Barber
He may of made it look easy, but this guy worked his tail off and played through some horrible knee injuries while doing it. Barber could do it all and could do it in all 3 zones.

Bob Kelly
Kelly began his career as a 12/13 forward and was known as just an energy. He worked very hard over the course of his career and by the late 70s he had developed into a solid 3rd liner. He also had the knack of knowing when to throw the big momentum changing hit and he scored some huge goals, including the Cup winner in 1975.

Right Wing
Paul Holmgren
Jeez, the guy almost loses sight in one eye during his rookie year, yet he just never gave up. No Flyer ever did more with less than Homer. He was rarely 100% healthy, but you needed a restraining order to keep him out of the lineup. Not only did work his tail off, but he could terrify an opponent with his stare alone.

Gary Dornhoefer
Dorny was left exposed by Boston in the 67 expansion draft because all the Bruins saw was a tall skinny kid that didn't skate all that well. What the Bruins missed, much to the Flyers gain, was that this guy had a huge heart. Dorny's body was constantly betrayed him and he has many physical issues today because of it, but this guy just left it all on the ice and would take incredible abuse in the paint to score huge goals.

Jaromir Jagr
The guy gets his own set of keys to the practice facility so that he can skate and work out at all hours of the day and night, and he's still going strong as he approaches his 45th birthday. What more needs to be said?

Mike Knuble
Knuble was slow, and blessed with only average skills, however he was also blessed with a huge heart and an unstoppable work ethic. He played his position the right way and always gave his all both in games and in practice.

I'll take a player picked in the 3rd round who winds up being a 4th line NHL player, over a player picked with more skill or a higher ceiling, that never makes the NHL.
- MJL

I wouldn't and he hasn't made squat yet

I wouldn't and he hasn't made squat yet
- Just5

So you prefer the team drafts a player who doesn't play in the NHL , versus a player who does?

I'll take a player picked in the 3rd round who winds up being a 4th line NHL player, over a player picked with more skill or a higher ceiling, that never makes the NHL.
- MJL

Who wouldnt? That doesnt make it a good pick

So you prefer the team drafts a player who doesn't play in the NHL , versus a player who does?
- MJL

Yes, that is exactly what was said.

When a player is drafted, what you're really doing is trying to pick a player that you think will contribute to your NHL (and AHL) team's success in the future. All organizations have different methods of selecting players. You have no idea if any player, especially past the first 2 rounds, will ever amount to anything in the AHL. However, for forwards within the first 3 rounds, I personally would target a player who has shown an ability to be a good point producer at his current level with hopes that it will carry into the pro ranks. Obviously points are not everything, but all things equal, I'd target offensive skill over physical prowess, generally speaking.

Yes, that is exactly what was said.

When a player is drafted, what you're really doing is trying to pick a player that you think will contribute to your NHL (and AHL) team's success if the future. All organizations have different methods of selecting players. You have no idea if any player, especially past the first 2 rounds, will ever amount to anything in the AHL. However, for forwards within the first 3 rounds, I personally would target a player who has shown an ability to be a good point producer at his current level with hopes that it will carry into the pro ranks. Obviously points are not everything, but all things equal, I'd target offensive skill over physical prowess, generally speaking.
- jmatchett383

so the Flyers/Caps rookie game drew like 10,000 people a few seasons ago at the Wells Fargo. Those bleachers looked pretty empty.
- nastyflyergirl

It was held on a weekday at a practice facility over an hour away from where both teams play

It was held on a weekday at a practice facility over an hour away from where both teams play
- YuenglingJagr

That's a pretty big practice facility, seating-wise.

Ghoul would have been a nice 5th round pick in 2013, but it's too late to still be crying over spilled Bjorkstrands.

Ghoul would have been a nice 5th round pick in 2013, but too late to still be crying over spilled Bjorkstrands.
- Feanor

Yes, that is exactly what was said.

When a player is drafted, what you're really doing is trying to pick a player that you think will contribute to your NHL (and AHL) team's success in the future. All organizations have different methods of selecting players. You have no idea if any player, especially past the first 2 rounds, will ever amount to anything in the AHL. However, for forwards within the first 3 rounds, I personally would target a player who has shown an ability to be a good point producer at his current level with hopes that it will carry into the pro ranks. Obviously points are not everything, but all things equal, I'd target offensive skill over physical prowess, generally speaking.
- jmatchett383

Yes, it is exactly what he said. This has been discussed many times, by many people. Some have called the pick a bad pick from the get go. That's a false narrative, in my opinion. As is the idea that a team should always draft players with high upside, but low odds and making the NHL, over players who may not have as high of a perceived upside, but are "safer" picks. I believe a team should have a balance between the two, in their drafting. Obviously, it's all speculative, but sometimes the "goon" turns out to be more also.

Who wouldnt? That doesnt make it a good pick
- YuenglingJagr

Disagree. If a player chosen in the 3rd round makes the NHL as a regular player, it was a very good pick.