So, how did my man Muzza go? 4 goals on 19 SOG???

Any excuses, or just bad?

Sheary, if he does what he can with Sid will get 1.25 or something like that. Maybe not break the bank, but at least double his salary. Murray, I disagree with you. I think at worst, he will get a Vasy like deal at 3.5 million. However, if he continues to play at a high level, it will be 4.0 million per. Dumo will get at worst Maatta money, but could be 4.5 as you say. Say Bones is cut in half at 4.5 million, that is a bunch of significant increases and we haven't talked about an increase to either Schultz or DP (not both) if they show anything. If both suck which is possible and Daley plays at a high level, that I would think would be a bigger need than Marchand.
- Oneonta Penguin

Why do you say not both on Schultz and DP? Say Pouliot shows something this year and becomes capable to be at least a bottom pairing defenseman, and say Schultz continues to grow with us. We're losing Daley. I've been out spoken about not resigning Bonino, but Daley would be a leagues dumber resign. If Schultz shows signs of mid pairing material to complement Dumo or Maatta, and Pouliot can show he can work the bottom pairing with Ian Cole, or visa-versa, why not resign them both? Its more attractive than going out and signing a retread on free agency. Gogo was the only good top 4 defenseman option in free agency this year and he cost 5.5 mil AAV. Schultz even if he has a super good year won't be worth that much due to his history. Pouliot will be worth less than two million any way you slice the cake and probably only be ~1 mil.

So, how did my man Muzza go? 4 goals on 19 SOG???

Any excuses, or just bad?
- Aussiepenguin

Just bad. Life goes on.

So, how did my man Muzza go? 4 goals on 19 SOG???

Any excuses, or just bad?
- Aussiepenguin

Probably shouldn't have been started in back to back games. But he needs to go back in for the next game...don't attempt to throw a tournament by tossing in a replacement like Fleury in the Tampa Bay series.

Probably shouldn't have been started in back to back games. But he needs to go back in for the next game...don't attempt to throw a tournament by tossing in a replacement like Fleury in the Tampa Bay series.
- Xyriin

To be fair totally situations. Fleury was coming off a concussion and not even practicing for the better part of like three months. Gibson doesn't have that handicap. Playing Fleury wasn't a bad idea because Fleury sucks. Playing Fleury was a bad idea because he wasn't in game shape.

Just bad. Life goes on.
- Victoro311

Apparently is a little dinged up as well but good enough to play. It's a good lesson - he has to get slated every now & again so he develops.

Why do you say not both on Schultz and DP? Say Pouliot shows something this year and becomes capable to be at least a bottom pairing defenseman, and say Schultz continues to grow with us. We're losing Daley. I've been out spoken about not resigning Bonino, but Daley would be a leagues dumber resign. If Schultz shows signs of mid pairing material to complement Dumo or Maatta, and Pouliot can show he can work the bottom pairing with Ian Cole, or visa-versa, why not resign them both? Its more attractive than going out and signing a retread on free agency. Gogo was the only good top 4 defenseman option in free agency this year and he cost 5.5 mil AAV. Schultz even if he has a super good year won't be worth that much due to his history. Pouliot will be worth less than two million any way you slice the cake and probably only be ~1 mil.
- Victoro311

To me, they are the same cat. To me, they are redundant. They have limitations and deficiencies. I know what you are going to say ... one plays on one side, the other plays on the other side. This is a make or break season for both in this organization. If DP doesn't make impact, he will be gone - same with Schultz. DP has shown me nothing to suggest he will make impact. I hope he does, but ... I have more faith in Schultz doing something positive than DP. If both suck, I don't want to be in position where we have to resign both. Schultz did fine in his sheltered minutes in the play-offs. Does he do fine with regular third pair minutes? I don't know.

Bones, I wouldn't give more than 4 million per and that depends on what he does this year. I love what he did last year, but he has to prove it again to me. Daley, let's see how he plays. If Schultz and DP suck and Daley plays well, then what do you do? We have a shortage of good Dmen really. Daley might not be as expensive resign as one thinks depending on what he thinks of Pittsburgh.

Why do you say not both on Schultz and DP? Say Pouliot shows something this year and becomes capable to be at least a bottom pairing defenseman, and say Schultz continues to grow with us. We're losing Daley. I've been out spoken about not resigning Bonino, but Daley would be a leagues dumber resign. If Schultz shows signs of mid pairing material to complement Dumo or Maatta, and Pouliot can show he can work the bottom pairing with Ian Cole, or visa-versa, why not resign them both? Its more attractive than going out and signing a retread on free agency. Gogo was the only good top 4 defenseman option in free agency this year and he cost 5.5 mil AAV. Schultz even if he has a super good year won't be worth that much due to his history. Pouliot will be worth less than two million any way you slice the cake and probably only be ~1 mil.
- Victoro311

Schultz would need to have a very big year just to get Daley money. Pouliot I've got no clue clue how to value. I think for Pouliot to get Maata/Depres money on a rfa deal he would have to show he's a top 4 guy which he won't get the opportunity for this year. Probably something like Ian Cole will get it done for Pouliot if he shows he is a NHL player. I'd say $2 million on Pouliot for the simple fact that Pouliot is a smart offer sheet candidate for a team like buffalo at $1 million. Which comes with zero compensation. Even $1.5 is only a 3rd round pick which is a reasonable risks/reward for someone with Pouliots ceiling.

Your not outspoken on signing Bonino. Coventional wisdom seems to be not a dime over $4 million. I think I'm the only saying his analytics continue to place him at a higher price tag and is vastly underrated. Don't know if we will have the cash to pay him $5 per year, but in terms of winning a cup the top teams have very good 3C.

Schultz would need to have a very big year just to get Daley money. Pouliot I've got no clue clue how to value. I think for Pouliot to get Maata/Depres money on a rfa deal he would have to show he's a top 4 guy which he won't get the opportunity for this year. Probably something like Ian Cole will get it done for Pouliot if he shows he is a NHL player. I'd say $2 million on Pouliot for the simple fact that Pouliot is a smart offer sheet candidate for a team like buffalo at $1 million. Which comes with zero compensation. Even $1.5 is only a 3rd round pick which is a reasonable risks/reward for someone with Pouliots ceiling.

Your not outspoken on signing Bonino. Coventional wisdom seems to be not a dime over $4 million. I think I'm the only saying his analytics continue to place him at a higher price tag and is vastly underrated. Don't know if we will have the cash to pay him $5 per year, but in terms of winning a cup the top teams have very good 3C.
- sditulli

I think if the organisation actually values Pouliot they will not play him a lot this year if they don't have to so they low ball him & sign him cheap. Other organisations (Buffalo especially), have their own 'projects' & probably wouldn't bother with someone else's unknowns. Barring injury & if the Pens are on a cup run (again ), Daley will be a key figure on D. I think it's as above where Shultz probably gets a run more so than Pouliot see if he is worth the gamble on a larger contract.

Then of course you have the Devils - so there is the big ? if Shero values Pouliot & would he offer sheet the Pens to get him? Do the Devils have anything we would want at the cost of Pouliot (although pretty sure they have enough Pouliots or better of their own), to trade (Bennett for Pouliot?? )???????

Probably shouldn't have been started in back to back games. But he needs to go back in for the next game...don't attempt to throw a tournament by tossing in a replacement like Fleury in the Tampa Bay series.
- Xyriin

Sounds like it's Gibsons job now.

Sounds like it's Gibsons job now.
- madmike71

Again, I'm fine with this. I would rather have a rested, or more rested Murray coming to camp than one that played every game.

Again, I'm fine with this. I would rather have a rested, or more rested Murray coming to camp than one that played every game.
- Oneonta Penguin

Ditto. Honestly, I don't want any of our players playing in this fake Olympics.

Schultz would need to have a very big year just to get Daley money. Pouliot I've got no clue clue how to value. I think for Pouliot to get Maata/Depres money on a rfa deal he would have to show he's a top 4 guy which he won't get the opportunity for this year. Probably something like Ian Cole will get it done for Pouliot if he shows he is a NHL player. I'd say $2 million on Pouliot for the simple fact that Pouliot is a smart offer sheet candidate for a team like buffalo at $1 million. Which comes with zero compensation. Even $1.5 is only a 3rd round pick which is a reasonable risks/reward for someone with Pouliots ceiling.

Your not outspoken on signing Bonino. Coventional wisdom seems to be not a dime over $4 million. I think I'm the only saying his analytics continue to place him at a higher price tag and is vastly underrated. Don't know if we will have the cash to pay him $5 per year, but in terms of winning a cup the top teams have very good 3C.
- sditulli

Yeah right now for Justin Schultz anything above the 5 mil threshold needs to be out of sight and out of mind. If he has a good year, he'll probably be looking at another one year contract priced 3-4 mil if he wants to really cash in, or he can accept a long term contract at 4 mil from a team that wants him as a long term second pairing d man.

DP needs to have a really (frank)ing good year to hit that 2 mil threshold. He won't be receiving any long term contract even if he wins a spot out of camp and plays all 82 games. Assuming he's a regular in the lineup, we're not going to give him a Maatta type contract off of a one year sample size, especially since he's likely going to be on the bottom pairing. And in all likelihood, Pouliot won't come close to playing all 82 games. This year, he's basically fighting for the money on his bridge deal, which will probably be similar to the one we gave Despres. Both players are developing at similar time tables.

Don't think anyone's gonna offer sheet DP. No one OSed Nuke and Dallas clearly wasn't going to pony up the money seeing as how the two sides didn't agree on a deal and Nuke is now going to Russia.

To me, they are the same cat. To me, they are redundant. They have limitations and deficiencies. I know what you are going to say ... one plays on one side, the other plays on the other side. This is a make or break season for both in this organization. If DP doesn't make impact, he will be gone - same with Schultz. DP has shown me nothing to suggest he will make impact. I hope he does, but ... I have more faith in Schultz doing something positive than DP. If both suck, I don't want to be in position where we have to resign both. Schultz did fine in his sheltered minutes in the play-offs. Does he do fine with regular third pair minutes? I don't know.

Bones, I wouldn't give more than 4 million per and that depends on what he does this year. I love what he did last year, but he has to prove it again to me. Daley, let's see how he plays. If Schultz and DP suck and Daley plays well, then what do you do? We have a shortage of good Dmen really. Daley might not be as expensive resign as one thinks depending on what he thinks of Pittsburgh.
- Oneonta Penguin

So what. If we had both Letang and Burns in our system we should pick one and trade the other even if we could fit both under the cap because they're both the same type of player? Granted, this is a much more exaggerated version of what you're saying, but hyperbole makes the point.

If both can contribute positively on the team moving forward, then I want both if it can be fit under the cap. You're situation where they're redundant is only relevant if there's only one long run spot in our top six or there were only two open spots and they were on the same pairing. This simply isn't true. Daley's contract is expiring, and Cole's contract expires the year after that. We have three long run spots open with Letang, Maatta, and Dumoulin being the only locks.

If its looking like neither will be anything more than a bottom pairing D man after this year then ok. I'll agree with you. Pick one. I don't think Pouliot-Schultz would be a good pairing at all. But if one looks like they can fit on Dumoulin/Maatta's right and the other looks like they can hold down the bottom pairing effectively for cheap, then retain both.

Ditto. Honestly, I don't want any of our players playing in this fake Olympics.
- madmike71

I am actually really happy Maatta's getting hockey reps in. This offseason for him is all about priming himself to bounce back and I think playing actual hockey will help that.

Yeah right now for Justin Schultz anything above the 5 mil threshold needs to be out of sight and out of mind. If he has a good year, he'll probably be looking at another one year contract priced 3-4 mil if he wants to really cash in, or he can accept a long term contract at 4 mil from a team that wants him as a long term second pairing d man.

DP needs to have a really (frank)ing good year to hit that 2 mil threshold. He won't be receiving any long term contract even if he wins a spot out of camp and plays all 82 games. Assuming he's a regular in the lineup, we're not going to give him a Maatta type contract off of a one year sample size, especially since he's likely going to be on the bottom pairing. And in all likelihood, Pouliot won't come close to playing all 82 games. This year, he's basically fighting for the money on his bridge deal, which will probably be similar to the one we gave Despres. Both players are developing at similar time tables.

Don't think anyone's gonna offer sheet DP. No one OSed Nuke and Dallas clearly wasn't going to ponied up the money seeing as how the two sides didn't agree on a deal and Nuke is now going to Russia.
- Victoro311

The people who could offer sheet DP are the ones who still see the kid that Pittsburgh moved up to get at #8 in the Staal deal. A talented kid. We are four years removed from drafting him and have yielded very little, if any from that selection. I get it. Not every one is Maatta and goes straight from being drafted to the NHL. D takes a bit longer to develop. That said, we have been waiting for him to make some impact, but yet he has failed.

DP has some strange supporters on this board. I remember one poster thinking he can be a 4-5.0 million guy within a year (poster escapes me). Others think 3 million. He would have to make an improvement more than Dumo to get that much IMO. Big year for him, which we can agree on that. If he sucks, I wouldn't even resign him on the cheap with a bridge deal.

So what. If we had both Letang and Burns in our system we should pick one and trade the other even if we could fit both under the cap because they're both the same type of player? Granted, this is a much more exaggerated version of what you're saying, but hyperbole makes the point.

If both can contribute positively on the team moving forward, then I want both if it can be fit under the cap. You're situation where they're redundant is only relevant if there's only one long run spot in our top six or there were only two open spots and they were on the same pairing. This simply isn't true. Daley's contract is expiring, and Cole's contract expires the year after that. We have three long run spots open with Letang, Maatta, and Dumoulin being the only locks.

If its looking like neither will be anything more than a bottom pairing D man after this year then ok. I'll agree with you. Pick one. I don't think Pouliot-Schultz would be a good pairing at all. But if one looks like they can fit on Dumoulin/Maatta's right and the other looks like they can hold down the bottom pairing effectively for cheap, then retain both.
- Victoro311

DP, Schultz would be one of the worst modern day D pairings in the NHL ... IMO.

At some point, you have to cut bait on players that don't cut it. If this happens to one or both this year, so be it. I really don't want either on the roster if they can't make a good contribution on the ice - if they can do it for cheap. You get what you pay for more times than not. We have had examples that surprised - Cullen, Comeau, others ... time will tell with these two. Again, have way more faith in Schultz.

DP, Schultz would be one of the worst modern day D pairings in the NHL ... IMO.

At some point, you have to cut bait on players that don't cut it. If this happens to one or both this year, so be it. I really don't want either on the roster if they can't make a good contribution on the ice - if they can do it for cheap. You get what you pay for more times than not. We have had examples that surprised - Cullen, Comeau, others ... time will tell with these two. Again, have way more faith in Schultz.
- Oneonta Penguin

I mean you're not totally wrong, but I think once again you're too willing to cut bait with players if they don't pan out exactly according to plan. If Schultz proves to be able to handle a top 4 job and Pouliot looks good in injury relief and shows he can handle a bottom pairing role along side Ian Cole and he'll just cost a Despres style bridge deal of ~1 mil, why not? Your other option, as I said, is going through free agency which usually doesn't work out too well.

Yeah right now for Justin Schultz anything above the 5 mil threshold needs to be out of sight and out of mind. If he has a good year, he'll probably be looking at another one year contract priced 3-4 mil if he wants to really cash in, or he can accept a long term contract at 4 mil from a team that wants him as a long term second pairing d man.

DP needs to have a really (frank)ing good year to hit that 2 mil threshold. He won't be receiving any long term contract even if he wins a spot out of camp and plays all 82 games. Assuming he's a regular in the lineup, we're not going to give him a Maatta type contract off of a one year sample size, especially since he's likely going to be on the bottom pairing. And in all likelihood, Pouliot won't come close to playing all 82 games. This year, he's basically fighting for the money on his bridge deal, which will probably be similar to the one we gave Despres. Both players are developing at similar time tables.

Don't think anyone's gonna offer sheet DP. No one OSed Nuke and Dallas clearly wasn't going to pony up the money seeing as how the two sides didn't agree on a deal and Nuke is now going to Russia.
- Victoro311

In terms of an offer sheet I was thinking the 1.5-2 range. If someone thinks Brittle Bennet is worth a 3rd round pick then I think someone would see a good r/r to risks a 3rd and a little cap for pouliot (who doesn't get hurt and has a much higher ceiling). I could see the arizona GM making a move like that.

The people who could offer sheet DP are the ones who still see the kid that Pittsburgh moved up to get at #8 in the Staal deal. A talented kid. We are four years removed from drafting him and have yielded very little, if any from that selection. I get it. Not every one is Maatta and goes straight from being drafted to the NHL. D takes a bit longer to develop. That said, we have been waiting for him to make some impact, but yet he has failed.

DP has some strange supporters on this board. I remember one poster thinking he can be a 4-5.0 million guy within a year (poster escapes me). Others think 3 million. He would have to make an improvement more than Dumo to get that much IMO. Big year for him, which we can agree on that. If he sucks, I wouldn't even resign him on the cheap with a bridge deal.
- Oneonta Penguin

Cheap offer sheet. And their worth throwing them at teams with cap problems. You don't have to go that high; just a 3rd round level offer sheet for a high potential guy.

Cheap offer sheet. And their worth throwing them at teams with cap problems. You don't have to go that high; just a 3rd round level offer sheet for a high potential guy.
- sditulli

It's hard to take the threat of offer sheets seriously when historically there have been so few. I've often thought those low risk offer sheets would be somewhat enticing. Apparently not 'cause they don't happen either.

I still think the majority of GM's feel it ruins their relationships with their peers and they don't feel it's worth it. Especially a player that is still an "unknown". It's a fraternity.....like it or not.

JT Miller is a guy I think the Pens could have gotten last year. He would have been worth 3.5 IMO. The Rags probably would have passed.

It's hard to take the threat of offer sheets seriously when historically there have been so few. I've often thought those low risk offer sheets would be somewhat enticing. Apparently not 'cause they don't happen either.

I still think the majority of GM's feel it ruins their relationships with their peers and they don't feel it's worth it. Especially a player that is still an "unknown". It's a fraternity.....like it or not.

JT Miller is a guy I think the Pens could have gotten last year. He would have been worth 3.5 IMO. The Rags probably would have passed.
- madmike71

I think they have a gentlemanly way of avoiding offer sheets. Such as trading a guy like pouliot instead of offer sheet. Like Saad. Hawks couldn't afford his cap hit so they worked out a deal. I think GM's tend to pay guys in line with offer sheet value if they want to keep the kid. Like we won't offer Murray $2 million on his next contract and assume no offer sheet risks since they never happen. We will end up offering a contract where someone would consider offer sheeting him.

cuz they don't play hockey only for money maybe?! most of the people playing hockey in nhl (especially canadians) play cuz they love playing hockey and it is what they are good at and getting money for it is great too. but the core for most players is the love for the sport. not the money. Playing for your country is a great honor and something you dream of as a kid (I know I did). so to summerize: Most players play cuz they love to play hockey. not the money
- martox

Hell is the CHL junior ranks, anything below junior A, the player has to pay the team to play for them! That's real love right there. You get drafted to a team 400kms from where your parents live at age 15 and your parents have to pay the team for their troubles.

so. what are you guys saying about trying to get Marchand in free agency next year? since the money for marc andre, scuds and kunitz will probably gone. especially considering we might lose someone like hags or horny in the draft.
he seems to be really good with sid and has been for a long time (videos of sid and march training like every year.)
- martox

I still don't think there is enough money for what he is going to get and I guarantee he has a new deal by the time the season staarts and he would be blocking one of our younger guys from getting a shot. I really liked how good Simon and Guentzle looked last weekend, they both look just about NHL ready. There are others that look close as well.

Murray won't get a big contract and neither will sheary. DP will 100% get a cheap bridge contract if he shows he is good (to show it was not a fluke). dumo will get like 4.5 mil or something. bones is the one I am worried about. i could see him get 4 or 5 mil and I personally wouldn't like to pay him that much. but IF dp shows he is good we will 100% lose hags or horny so that is 4 mil. chris kunitz is 3.8 mil. Scudz da ghost is 1.2 mil. marchand could happen if any of daley,schultz or ian cole was traded and dp took the place and some cap tinkering ( cap tinkering being trades).
- martox

Bengsston looks NHL ready as well so he could fit into the picture. He dominates the puck from the point especially on the power play.