I am better.

Hall scored more points in less games over the last three years while playing better defense than Tarasenko did.

You need someone to check your facts, Tanner.
Hall 210GP and 183 points last 3 seasons
Tarasenksho 221GP and 190 points over the last 3 seasons.
Also not sure why you say Hall played better defense, but I guess we just take your word for it simply because you said so. Even though Tarasenko is a +54 and Hall is a -20 over the last 3 seasons.

In my entire life watching hockey, I've never seen anything like this.

This is my favorite part of the blog. How much hockey do you, or have you actually watched? Using fancy pie charts to compare players, isn't watching hockey.
- leonkennedy

For some reason, +/- is a completely unreliable stat but the advanced stats are infallible.

Because the advanced stats are infallible, you can make any statement you like, no matter how ridiculous, and that statement is true.

For example,

Last season, there were 95 NHL players who "drove possession" better than Patrick Kane according to Corsi For %.

You know who is only 2 spots behind Patrick Kane? Taylor Hall.

since when has "drives possession" become more important than leading your team to the playoffs?
- jimbro83

Around the same time some idiot started using the term "drives possession" to describe some stats that are barely more advanced than Shots on Goal and probably less telling than +/-.

As near as I can tell, statistical analysis in hockey has gone backwards.

I was initially surprised that Hall wasn't picked.

Perhaps they wanted big, tougher players after the way USA ran them in the first game?

Hall scored more points in less games over the last three years while playing better defense than Tarasenko did.

You need someone to check your facts, Tanner.
Hall 210GP and 183 points last 3 seasons
Tarasenksho 221GP and 190 points over the last 3 seasons.
Also not sure why you say Hall played better defense, but I guess we just take your word for it simply because you said so. Even though Tarasenko is a +54 and Hall is a -20 over the last 3 seasons.

In my entire life watching hockey, I've never seen anything like this.

This is my favorite part of the blog. How much hockey do you, or have you actually watched? Using fancy pie charts to compare players, isn't watching hockey.
- leonkennedy

It clearly stats about 3 or 5 times that all the stats are 5v5.

Also, plus minus does not tell you what a players defensive skills are. It isn't even a barometer. If you're gonna take this kind of tone, maybe be correct about something.

Let. It. Go.

Yeah, Hall is a great player but Larsson isnt that bad of one. Top pair right handed mobile defensemen that can play a lot of minutes. It's a hard piece to acquire via trade. Most of the time these kind of guys are drafted by the team they play for and play for said team for a long time.

Yes, Hall is the superior player, but Larsson is good and is only 23. Defensemen usually take more time to hit their full potential.

Why do we keep reverting to cherry picked stats? Why is the entire article based on the past 3 seasons, 5v5? Is there no more to this player? Can we not see how he performed on the pp or shorthanded? What about plus minus? Time on ice compared to his peers? Shots generated? Shots blocked? As I recall you believe that Tanner Glass could score at the same rats as OV if he simply shot the puck enough, so let's get SOG in there for sure.

See, if hall is "literally a top ten forward by any measurement", then why are we getting but the one measurement?

C'mon, you're smart. Try to believe that other people are too and treat us to the big picture
- jackzack87

These aren't "cherry picked" stats, they are the best stats to use.

5v5 is the standard for player evaluation, as 80% of the game is played there. With a few exceptions, scoring on the PP is generally pretty automatic. The game is won and lost at even strength, and so it's what we care about when we want to know things about players and the game.

What about plus minus? Hahahahah

Your sentence about Tanner Glass is ridiculous and comes from a point you clearly failed to grasp regarding shot volume. This is called a "sophistic" argument and is a waste of everyone's time.

James you live in the Toronto area correct?

It clearly stats about 3 or 5 times that all the stats are 5v5.

Also, plus minus does not tell you what a players defensive skills are. It isn't even a barometer. If you're gonna take this kind of tone, maybe be correct about something.
- James_Tanner

Just because you say something, or buy into something, doesn't make it true.

For some reason, +/- is a completely unreliable stat but the advanced stats are infallible.

Because the advanced stats are infallible, you can make any statement you like, no matter how ridiculous, and that statement is true.

For example,

Last season, there were 95 NHL players who "drove possession" better than Patrick Kane according to Corsi For %.

You know who is only 2 spots behind Patrick Kane? Taylor Hall.
- Aetherial

You could easily spend ten minutes reading about why plus minus is a bad stats. If you are going to argue with people on the internet and spend a huge amount of your personal time doing so, it's worth the read.

No one is saying other stats are infallible? Why make that jump?

You don't even know what it means to say someone "drove" possession, at least based on your example.

These aren't "cherry picked" stats, they are the best stats to use.

5v5 is the standard for player evaluation, as 80% of the game is played there. With a few exceptions, scoring on the PP is generally pretty automatic. The game is won and lost at even strength, and so it's what we care about when we want to know things about players and the game.

What about plus minus? Hahahahah

Your sentence about Tanner Glass is ridiculous and comes from a point you clearly failed to grasp regarding shot volume. This is called a "sophistic" argument and is a waste of everyone's time.
- James_Tanner

The bolded is an excellent analysis.

Who cares why Taylor doesn't seem to get the respect he deserves. From the reaction of Oiler fans following the Larsson trade it sure as poop sounded like they knew what they were losing and how good Hall is.

Regardless, the new #9 in town is getting a fresh start. People want to dis the Devil offense and that's fair enough. But it did have two 30 goal scorers before Taylor showed up and the roster will have fresh kids instead of dead weight this year. Times are changing.

Just because you say something, or buy into something, doesn't make it true.
- Aetherial

No of course not. But in this case, do ten minutes of research, or stop acting like a sarcastic jerk and ask. Trust me, it is true. Just like most of the things I print.

These aren't "cherry picked" stats, they are the best stats to use.

5v5 is the standard for player evaluation
scoring on the PP is generally pretty automatic.
The game is won and lost at even strength

What about plus minus? Hahahahah

Your sentence about Tanner Glass is ridiculous and comes from a point you clearly failed to grasp regarding shot volume. This is called a "sophistic" argument and is a waste of everyone's time.
- James_Tanner

Tanner just saying something doesn't make it the gold standard. It makes it your opinion. The rest of the stats exist for a reason, because they are part of the big picture. The bolded statements are hyperbole, and just because you don't like +/- doesn't make it a bad measuring stick.
The burden of proof is on the blogger, writer, author, etc. It is not on the public to go on a witch hunt to find the fallacies you created, and to assume your readership should go do the legwork you avoided is way off base.

The "waste of everyones time" sure got you a buttload of blog hits at the right time, why are we overlooking it now?

Who cares why Taylor doesn't seem to get the respect he deserves. From the reaction of Oiler fans following the Larsson trade it sure as poop sounded like they knew what they were losing and how good Hall is.

Regardless, the new #9 in town is getting a fresh start. People want to dis the Devil offense and that's fair enough. But it did have two 30 goal scorers before Taylor showed up and the roster will have fresh kids instead of dead weight this year. Times are changing.
- Queenie_5_hole

Yes, you may notice people don't do any research or check any facts, then they get very sarcastic and rude despite being completely ignorant or making no effort to understand your point.

For example, the New Jersey Devils were coached by Jaques Lemaire and played boring hockey in the 90s, so even though its 20 years later, people still assume they can't score.

The bolded is an excellent analysis.
- Aetherial

Honestly, it's better than you deserve.

question or all you peeps who live in the Toronto area. headed up that way soon.

Are their any goalie stores that sell the Brian's brand? If so can you help a brother out with the name of the store?

Tanner just saying something doesn't make it the gold standard. It makes it your opinion. The rest of the stats exist for a reason, because they are part of the big picture. The bolded statements are hyperbole, and just because you don't like +/- doesn't make it a bad measuring stick.

The "waste of everyones time" sure got you a buttload of blog hits at the right time, why are we overlooking it now?
- jackzack87

Just saying doesn't make it true, but in this case it happens to be true. 5v5 is the standard for evaluating players in the statistical NHL community. That is a fact. You are free to check it out and get back to me.

There is no burden of proof here, I am a part of that community, I would know.

And plus/minus being bad is not my opinion. It is the consensus opinion of a community made up of millions of people.

Again, the attempts to discredit me regardless of what is written border on pathetic. Face it, you're no match for me and you're way out of your league.

You could easily spend ten minutes reading about why plus minus is a bad stats. If you are going to argue with people on the internet and spend a huge amount of your personal time doing so, it's worth the read.

No one is saying other stats are infallible? Why make that jump?

You don't even know what it means to say someone "drove" possession, at least based on your example.
- James_Tanner

I have some advice for you.

If you want to base a career on drawing conclusions from something that is obviously, and seriously, flawed, then be prepared for other, more intelligent, people to point out the problems with your argument.

You don't like +/-? fine.

I think Corsi and Fenwick can't be used to rank players in any meaningful way and, by extension, any stats or charts based on those calculations are also flawed. As evidence, I will pull up any given year and rank players by any Corsi or Fenwick stat. Then I will point out how ridiculous the "rankings" are and question every conclusion you make about players based on those rankings.

Honestly, it's the best I can do when faced with a superior argument and intellect.
- James_Tanner

I agree.

No of course not. But in this case, do ten minutes of research, or stop acting like a sarcastic jerk and ask. Trust me, it is true. Just like most of the things I print.
- James_Tanner

I wouldn't go quite that far Mr. Tanner.

Yes, you may notice people don't do any research or check any facts, then they get very sarcastic and rude despite being completely ignorant or making no effort to understand your point.

For example, the New Jersey Devils were coached by Jaques Lemaire and played boring hockey in the 90s, so even though its 20 years later, people still assume they can't score.
- James_Tanner

Tanner, how come you didn't respond to the previous blog about Reilly playing on average of 5x the minutes that Gardiner faced against some of the premier players in the league? Not being a douche, interested in your response.

Just saying doesn't make it true, but in this case it happens to be true. 5v5 is the standard for evaluating players in the statistical NHL community. That is a fact. You are free to check it out and get back to me.

There is no burden of proof here, I am a part of that community, I would know.

And plus/minus being bad is not my opinion. It is the consensus opinion of a community made up of millions of people.

Again, the attempts to discredit me regardless of what is written border on pathetic. Face it, you're no match for me and you're way out of your league.
- James_Tanner

Buddy, again, just by you saying it doesn't make it so.

If your loophole is that you want to be the smarter, bigger man then please try to give something to rise to that occasion. You have given insults and ill-conceived ideas painted as facts. Be real here Tanner

No of course not. But in this case, do ten minutes of research, or stop acting like a sarcastic jerk and ask. Trust me, it is true. Just like most of the things I print.
- James_Tanner

The funny part is that I purposely set out to respond to you in the same way you respond to others.

Tanner, how come you didn't respond to the previous blog about Reilly playing on average of 5x the minutes that Gardiner faced against some of the premier players in the league? Not being a douche, interested in your response.
- sbroads24

He doesn't believe Quality of Competition matters.