Simply put he's a product of bad management. But obviously there's more than that. Just assuming or an example maybe, but if handful of guys on the team don't like him then that's either one problem or six problems. And my honest opinion looking back, old management went the root of dealing with six problems instead of dealing with one. There was an absolute purpose to have Hall and McDavid roommates.

Sources tell me that Arik Parnass has been officially hired by the Colorado Avalanche. The competitive central gets tougher.

— Garret Hohl (@GarretHohl) September 14, 2016

Avs have 2 anayltic guys on the payroll now...Oh you guys are in big big trouble now

Sources tell me that Arik Parnass has been officially hired by the Colorado Avalanche. The competitive central gets tougher.

— Garret Hohl (@GarretHohl) September 14, 2016

Avs have 2 anayltic guys on the payroll now...Oh you guys are in big big trouble now
- DDM-Coga

Just Roy leaving has most of us scared.

I would have to check.
- JTanner

You have to check? Seriously? Today you made a number of statements such as you are "in the analytics community". You also stated that " The most predictive Corsi number is score-adjusted so that only even and one goal games count towards the statistics." You've made repeated statements that you've done extensive research with analytics. You frequently use HERO charts in your blogs and postings. If what you say in your statements is true, how could you possibly not know if they use score adjusted data in the HERO charts you post and use?

You have to check? Seriously? Today you made a number of statements such as you are "in the analytics community". You also stated that " The most predictive Corsi number is score-adjusted so that only even and one goal games count towards the statistics." You've made repeated statements that you've done extensive research with analytics. You frequently use HERO charts in your blogs and postings. If what you say in your statements is true, how could you possibly not know if they use score adjusted data in the HERO charts you post and use?
- MJL

Ouch.

Just Roy leaving has most of us scared.
- Garnie

they other dude they hired was Zac Urback.
He has a steal or bust prospect projections website based on finding CHL comparable to those players. Its kind of cool
http://www.prospect-stats.com/DEV/default.html

You have to check? Seriously? Today you made a number of statements such as you are "in the analytics community". You also stated that " The most predictive Corsi number is score-adjusted so that only even and one goal games count towards the statistics." You've made repeated statements that you've done extensive research with analytics. You frequently use HERO charts in your blogs and postings. If what you say in your statements is true, how could you possibly not know if they use score adjusted data in the HERO charts you post and use?
- MJL

"extensive research"

My cat lays on the newspaper and looks at it alot, that doesn't mean he's up to date on current events.

Yes, you may notice people don't do any research or check any facts, then they get very sarcastic and rude despite being completely ignorant or making no effort to understand your point.

For example, the New Jersey Devils were coached by Jaques Lemaire and played boring hockey in the 90s, so even though its 20 years later, people still assume they can't score.
- James_Tanner

You mean other than the fact that the Devils scored 7 less goals than the 29th ranked Canucks last year? Because that's pretty damning evidence to me. Hell, even the lowly Sabres managed to score 17 more goals than the Devils last year.

Edit: late. Good article, I don't think I'd go so far as to say that Hall is top 10 F, full stop, but he is definitely among the cream of the crop.

But that was a pretty weak comment. The fact that they had 2 30 goal scorers makes it even worse that they were so bad overall. It's kind of like football. No matter who has coached the Bills for the last 20 years they always "lead" the league in penalties. Sometimes teams transcend coaches/front offices and are what they are. The Devils are a boring team to watch, all they do is clog up the middle of the ice and wait for mistakes and try and counter.

For some reason, +/- is a completely unreliable stat but the advanced stats are infallible.

Because the advanced stats are infallible, you can make any statement you like, no matter how ridiculous, and that statement is true.

For example,

Last season, there were 95 NHL players who "drove possession" better than Patrick Kane according to Corsi For %.

You know who is only 2 spots behind Patrick Kane? Taylor Hall.
- Aetherial

The fantasy stats are just a fancy way of explaining +/-, but +/- is the worst and most useless stat there is.

It clearly stats about 3 or 5 times that all the stats are 5v5.

Also, plus minus does not tell you what a players defensive skills are. It isn't even a barometer. If you're gonna take this kind of tone, maybe be correct about something.
- James_Tanner

It clearly did not state this in the part of the blog I quoted. It is ok to make mistakes, James, but when they are pointed out to you it seems you have a difficult time owning them. Becoming defensive and responding with a passive aggressive retort, indicates that you find validity in the statement.

It clearly did not state this in the part of the blog I quoted. It is ok to make mistakes, James, but when they are pointed out to you it seems you have a difficult time owning them. Becoming defensive and responding with a passive aggressive retort, indicates that you find validity in the statement.
- leonkennedy

How can I own a mistake I didn't make? That doesn't even make sense.

How can I own a mistake I didn't make? That doesn't even make sense.
- James_Tanner

Imagine Vladimir Tarasenko got traded for Jason Demers.



That's about what happened to Taylor Hall this summer. Only Demers is probably better than Larsson, and Hall scored more points in less games over the last three years while playing better defense than Tarasenko did.

Not sure where in here is states that this statement about points and games, is only when referring to 5 vs 5. Perhaps it is what you meant, and just wasn't communicated properly, or perhaps the mistake is mine and I did not read the entire blog clearly enough to see that this was meant to be considered throughout the entire blog. If that is the case then the mistake is mine and I apologize.

I get your frustration about Taylor Hall. I have been an Oilers fan since about age 6, and as such have been following this team closely since the early 80's. It really sucks that he was traded for Larsson because I know how good he is and what he has done in the past 5 years with the team.

Unfortunately Chiarelli is tasked with fixing what has been a huge cluster(frank) in Edmonton that began with Tambellini. Change had to be made, and new players being signed and drafted made players like Hall a chip to be dealt.

As for him being snubbed by team Canada. I think it is important to understand that those who built the team, want centers. Hall is not a center. Perhaps he should and definitely could be there over other players, but who on that team do you take out and say that Hall would be a better fit?

It clearly did not state this in the part of the blog I quoted. It is ok to make mistakes, James, but when they are pointed out to you it seems you have a difficult time owning them. Becoming defensive and responding with a passive aggressive retort, indicates that you find validity in the statement.
- leonkennedy

Maybe he just thought you'd be able to remember something he wrote right before he said that.

Maybe he just thought you'd be able to remember something he wrote right before he said that.
- Wetbandit1

Are you referring to the opening sentence of the blog, that we are to assume applies to every statement of fact in the blog, even when it is a statement made half to 3/4 of the way through the blog? Nothing was said stating this, immediately before the statement I quoted. You may want to try reading the blog yourself.

I looked over a few of these posted articles about QOC not being important.

The amusing thing is that the "proof" that QOC doesn't matter is based off of statistics that aren't necessarily accurate themselves.

I read an article stating that quality of competition all evens out by comparing the Relative Corsi of their competition averaged out over a full season.

This means, of course, that the whole argument about QOC being irrelevant hinges on how reliable a statistic you believe Rel Corsi is to determining a players skill level.
If you don't trust Rel Corsi to be a valid measuring stick all by itself to measure quality of competition, then the whole argument is flawed right from the beginning.

When you use something that is already questionable to validate something else...people are going to question it, and rightly so.

Are you referring to the opening sentence of the blog, that we are to assume applies to every statement of fact in the blog, even when it is a statement made half to 3/4 of the way through the blog? Nothing was said stating this, immediately before the statement I quoted. You may want to try reading the blog yourself.
- leonkennedy

He reiterates the even strength thing 5 very short paragraphs before the Demers/Tarasenko comparison. It's a thread that runs throughout the article.

Again, just for posterity: Taylor Hall is the 9th highest scoring forward in hockey over the last three years. He is good defensively, he drives possession, makes everyone he plays with better and scores at even-strength, which is nearly impossible, as we all know.
- James Tanner

He also said it 9 sentences after the thing about Tarasenko:

Logic suggest that if a player is among the best at the game's rarest skill (5v5 scoring) he'd be considered to play for his country, especially if he also had the rare ability to drive possession and was the league's possible fastest skater.
- James Tanner

Taylor Hall is too one dimensional and scoring is really he only asset.

Can he shutdown top players - no.
Does he defend well - Not really.
Does he kill penalties - No
Does he bring a physical element - No
Does he score clutch/GWG - Nope.
Leadership/attitude - meh, not strong here either.
Experience/success in the playoffs or on the big stage - limited

Team Canada isn't lacking offensive talent in the least. They have it in spades, butt the biggest asset is all the other things their players bring to the table. Leaders on their teams that usually play the tough minutes and drive their teams to wins. Taylor Hall might be that someday, but still plays a bit of an immature game IMO.
- breadbag

I get a good hearty laugh out of that one. Pavel Bure was pretty one dimensional too.
You can also ask if the Oilers as a team do any of those things well. And the answer is no. Except you'd have to change the "kill penalties" to "kill penalties well". Which is pretty much the thesis of James' entire article. Don't blame Taylor for the Oilers' failings.

I looked over a few of these posted articles about QOC not being important.

The amusing thing is that the "proof" that QOC doesn't matter is based off of statistics that aren't necessarily accurate themselves.

I read an article stating that quality of competition all evens out by comparing the Relative Corsi of their competition averaged out over a full season.

This means, of course, that the whole argument about QOC being irrelevant hinges on how reliable a statistic you believe Rel Corsi is to determining a players skill level.
If you don't trust Rel Corsi to be a valid measuring stick all by itself to measure quality of competition, then the whole argument is flawed right from the beginning.

When you use something that is already questionable to validate something else...people are going to question it, and rightly so.
- Thecakeisalie

Amen



It's said though that it's been proven and it's a fact.

I get a good hearty laugh out of that one. Pavel Bure was pretty one dimensional too.
You can also ask if the Oilers as a team do any of those things well. And the answer is no. Except you'd have to change the "kill penalties" to "kill penalties well". Which is pretty much the thesis of James' entire article. Don't blame Taylor for the Oilers' failings.
- Wetbandit1

Because scoring is a bad thing... ya know...

Because scoring is a bad thing... ya know...
- j.boyd919

I endorse this message:

I looked over a few of these posted articles about QOC not being important.

The amusing thing is that the "proof" that QOC doesn't matter is based off of statistics that aren't necessarily accurate themselves.

I read an article stating that quality of competition all evens out by comparing the Relative Corsi of their competition averaged out over a full season.

This means, of course, that the whole argument about QOC being irrelevant hinges on how reliable a statistic you believe Rel Corsi is to determining a players skill level.
If you don't trust Rel Corsi to be a valid measuring stick all by itself to measure quality of competition, then the whole argument is flawed right from the beginning.

When you use something that is already questionable to validate something else...people are going to question it, and rightly so.
- Thecakeisalie

How can anyone even begin to take this poop seriously any more. The more I hear about it, the more it is defended by starting with the assumption that it is correct, the more I realize how ridiculous it is.

Because scoring is a bad thing... ya know...
- j.boyd919

Not many teams can afford an $8m third liner.

How can anyone even begin to take this poop seriously any more. The more I hear about it, the more it is defended by starting with the assumption that it is correct, the more I realize how ridiculous it is.
- Aetherial

Any corsi based stat for an individual player, is suspect. It is a team stat, and not an individual stat.

Not many teams can afford an $8m third liner.
- Garnie

Honestly, I have no clue had Pittsburgh does it either.

Any corsi based stat for an individual player, is suspect. It is a team stat, and not an individual stat.
- MJL

What if it was broken down into a Line or Pairing stat?