Hawks not bringing any PTOs in. Heard that in August from somebody in org. They are all in on the "give our kids a chance and see who wants it the most " narrative. Notice how they put out training camp roster super early ? Set in stone for awhile.

Don't fret though, Stan is going to spend the money he has under the cap, just not in September.

I for one am excited about training camp next week and seeing which young guys seize the opportunity.
- Omahawk

There's no guarantee that any of the kids will amount to anything but there's always a chance that one or two will. I'm with you, I think it will be exciting to watch how the kids perform at camp then early in the season.

There's no guarantee that any of the kids will amount to anything but there's always a chance that one or two will. I'm with you, I think it will be exciting to watch how the kids perform at camp then early in the season.
- DarthKane

So, for you guys who have played or coached the game, how many minutes/games is required for a reasonable test of a player who has made it to this level to see if he will fit the bill?

Will he need to play with his potential future line mates to check the chemistry before making that decision or should he show fit regardless of who he is playing with at the time? (I can't help thinking about all the remarks a la 'Patrick Kane makes everyone he plays with better")

So, for you guys who have played or coached the game, how many minutes/games is required for a reasonable test of a player who has made it to this level to see if he will fit the bill?

Will he need to play with his potential future line mates to check the chemistry before making that decision or should he show fit regardless of who he is playing with at the time? (I can't help thinking about all the remarks a la 'Patrick Kane makes everyone he plays with better")
- pdx2ord

About a dozen games but if it is Q about 1period!

So, for you guys who have played or coached the game, how many minutes/games is required for a reasonable test of a player who has made it to this level to see if he will fit the bill?

Will he need to play with his potential future line mates to check the chemistry before making that decision or should he show fit regardless of who he is playing with at the time? (I can't help thinking about all the remarks a la 'Patrick Kane makes everyone he plays with better")
- pdx2ord

Not that i've played or coached hockey, but i've played football/Baseball, and was an assistant basketball coach for a few years.

Chemistry is a funny thing. Sometimes 2 people just need to be put next to each other and everything just falls into place. But there are times where even with practicing together, you need that game speed and game pressure to really see how 2 players link. 2 guys might be friends and have good chemistry in practice, but in game they just dont mesh. Think a Guard Combo in basketball, or a Central Attacker and Striker in Soccer or a SS and 3B. You need to really play at full speed together to look seamless.

In my experience, about 3 games will allow the players to feel each other out and get on the same page as far as "mind-reading" situations. you get use to what the other guy will do and start to anticipate it. Then in about about another 4-6 games you will see, how that chemistry/anticipation translates to each players game.

Speaking of that series against the Wings and looking back in 2009. Do you think the Hawks could have advanced if Halvat didn't get Kronwall'd and Khabibulin had stayed healthy?
- breadbag

No.

Havlat might've helped some.

Huet was every bit as good late in Game 4 and in Game 5 (actually better) as Khabibulin was in Games 1-4. So Khabibulin was not going to make the difference, IMO.

Hawks lost that series due to a lack of experience and resulting mental meltdowns (Versteeg, over and over, Campbell a couple of times) and because their third pair (Barker and Walker) were a couple of pylons and the Wings had a lot of speed on their lower lines. I also recall the Hawks' top guys being invisible for long stretches.

Wings were deep and at the top of their game. Hossa was a beast in that series.

So, for you guys who have played or coached the game, how many minutes/games is required for a reasonable test of a player who has made it to this level to see if he will fit the bill?

Will he need to play with his potential future line mates to check the chemistry before making that decision or should he show fit regardless of who he is playing with at the time? (I can't help thinking about all the remarks a la 'Patrick Kane makes everyone he plays with better")
- pdx2ord

For a guy like Q or Scotty Bowman, a couple of shifts. Literally.

There nuances of how a player performs that coaches at that level will discern very, very quickly.

I mean, maybe a guy is hurt, maybe he is lost in a new system, and those are factors that would cause a coach to pause and say, we need to give this a bit more time.

But if the guy has some fatal flaws in his game—that were not exposed against slower, smaller, weaker competition in college, junior or the AHL—a good NHL coach is gonna see that damn fast.

There's no guarantee that any of the kids will amount to anything but there's always a chance that one or two will. I'm with you, I think it will be exciting to watch how the kids perform at camp then early in the season.
- DarthKane

Too many holes. And too many important holes.

Would be nice to watch kids play a little and develop—at the proper pace for them and the organization.

But this is pretty close to sending the Hitlerjugend out with shoulder-fired grenade launchers against Soviet tanks. Sounds inspiring, but the odds are very long.

Hawks have not brought in any PTOs (yet) likely because they aren't finding anything remotely redeeming in the bargain bin.

Or, they have a deal waiting 'til after the WC.

Canada only has one line really clicking right now, but I wouldn't say Toews has been invisible. Stamkos certainly hasn't been able to finish on chances and Toews has sent him passes multiple times. Toews has been taking most of the defensive load at C and has won a ton of faceoffs so far. For faceoffs he was 54%, 74% and 60% in the three games so far.
- breadbag

THIS^^^^

These average fans are expecting a 9-0 whitewash every game. The Ruskies are pretty good and Bobo had to make 45 saves in a game where Canada was shorthanded 7 times. Panarin's line played pretty well, Anisimov got some action, Ovi and Malkin were good - they aren't a bunch of scrubs.

One guy very noticeable by his absence is Duncan Keith.
- RickJ

THIS^^^^

My exact thought when I watched the USA-Canada exhibition last week.

Nice write up JJ, but you did not talk about the most important thing, that being Q. If Q does not evolve with this changing roster then forget it. He will go back to running 3 lines and burn this team out by March. There is still a very talented core here, its just not as deep as in years past.

The way Q handled his bench against the Blues was comedy and he better have learned from it. Dont know, but Q will be the X factor in what happnes this year.
- z1990z

Counterpoint:

Q is a Formula One driver. Give him a Nissan Altima to drive and he will burn it out. No, not saying the Hawks, as a whole, are analogous to a Nissan Altima.

But, if you want a kinder, gentler coach to manage a rebuild, Q is not your guy. Nor does it make any sense for this team, as constructed, to be in rebuild mode.

Again, if you were plugging in ONE guy with elite skill, but needed some acclimation and experience (like, say, Saad in 2012), that would be one thing.

But it seems like there are some big money bets being placed (figuratively) on a few average to above average, 20-21 year old prospects and a guy who has been with 3 organizations in 4 years and never really scored big in the AHL.

Oh man, Matt Walker...I had blocked him from my memory...

I think with Huet, he got a bad rep in Chicago mostly because of the goals he did let in. If I recall correctly he was a bit prone to letting in easy ones, which honestly never bothered me, but I know gets under people's skin. I hate to blame goalies for soft goals, because the same guy will often stop other shots that could have beaten him. He struggled with the Hawks, for whatever reason, be it goalie coaching, system in front, confidence or he just plain couldn't get it together, I don't know.

At the end of the day, the GAA of the team the years Huet was here wasn't bad really and his individual GAA in Chicago was on par with his average with Montreal. Almost the same as the last year here in Chicago with Crawford/Darling. Seems like Huet just faced less shots but still manage to allow his 2.5 goals per game.
- breadbag

I think what hurt Huet big time is he did not have the same relationship with the goalie coach in Chicago that he did in Montreal with Rollie Melanson—who coached him up hugely.

Too many holes. And too many important holes.

Would be nice to watch kids play a little and develop—at the proper pace for them and the organization.

But this is pretty close to sending the Hitlerjugend out with shoulder-fired grenade launchers against Soviet tanks. Sounds inspiring, but the odds are very long.

Hawks have not brought in any PTOs (yet) likely because they aren't finding anything remotely redeeming in the bargain bin.

Or, they have a deal waiting 'til after the WC.
- John Jaeckel

If you are lookiing at the 2016/2017 season and playoffs in "NHL '17 - GM mode", this is going to be a fantastic and intriguing year.

If you feel the Hawks are a player or two away from being a strong contender (which I do), then what will be the market price for TDL "rentals" with the expansion draft in consideration? For example, if you think the Hawks have a surplus of D' and need to unload TvR to upgrade your forward position, will you get the same return this year as last with the expansion draft coming next summer? Time will tell.

In agreement with JJ re: PTO candidates, I am curious to see what fodder eventually is signed. The Hawks had cornered the market on Euros and unsigned college FA. I think that tank is depleted, too. Really just hoping one of the older Hogs can be a 10-12min/gm contributor.

I think what hurt Huet big time is he did not have the same relationship with the goalie coach in Chicago that he did in Montreal with Rollie Melanson—who coached him up hugely.
- John Jaeckel

This is the first time I recall you saying that, and you make a good point.

Not if the Hawks tag him as one of the seven forwards they choose to protect and/or give him an NMC.
- Return of the Roar

The hawks do not need to protect him since he will have 2 years or less of a NHL contract. Also you cannot have NMC until you are no longer a RFA. Which panarin will not be for 2 more years after this. Guys under ELC are RFA years are not eligiable for MNC or NTC's so you need either 7 years of NHL EXP or have turned 27 before the start of the season.

Counterpoint:

Q is a Formula One driver. Give him a Nissan Altima to drive and he will burn it out. No, not saying the Hawks, as a whole, are analogous to a Nissan Altima.

But, if you want a kinder, gentler coach to manage a rebuild, Q is not your guy. Nor does it make any sense for this team, as constructed, to be in rebuild mode.

Again, if you were plugging in ONE guy with elite skill, but needed some acclimation and experience (like, say, Saad in 2012), that would be one thing.

But it seems like there are some big money bets being placed (figuratively) on a few average to above average, 20-21 year old prospects and a guy who has been with 3 organizations in 4 years and never really scored big in the AHL.
- John Jaeckel

I agree with all of this, but I'm going to disagree on Panik. He's playing with Hossa, who he looks up to. He's 25. He's playing with a good team, yes I know he played on the Lightning a couple of years ago, but not regularly. He's hasn't been a finisher, but he has size and speed. If Q can put him at 1LW and LEAVE him at 1LW for 20 games or so, as long as he's not killing you defensively, and I think he's pretty good there, I htink there's a better chance of him clicking there and staying there than any of Schmaltz/Kero/etc...BECAUSE of the reasons you said about the Pens. I think of Panik as learning on the job, instead of the AHL. He is closer to breaking out then any of the rookies because of that experience.

Not saying it's going to happen, but if I'm Q and I'm hedging bets, Panik gets first shot.

Well Kempny had to be a workhorse for the Czech yesterday. He was the only skater for his team to exceed 20 minutes of icetime. He played nearly 25 minutes, while the next highest was Jakub Nakladal at 19:22. He got the tough minutes too, playing nearly 7 minutes of the PK and picked up an assist in 3 1/2 mnutes of PP time he got as well.

Anyway, second consecutive game he was the icetime leader for the team. It is at least encouraging to see his team trusting him in these close games against some very good forwards. They beat Russia 2-1 and team NA 3-2 with Kempny leading the charge defensively.

Obviously the Czech team isn't a Juggernaut on D, but he is at least getting icetime ahead of guys who are 15-20 minutes a night players in the NHL. i.e. Polak, Michalek, Sustr...

The 700K they signed Kempny to could end up being a real bargain. He might not be the best guy but he looks like he can play some minutes and possibly a good PK guy. Hopefully the Hawks can really distribute the D minutes this season and avoid wearing anyone down too much.

Well Kempny had to be a workhorse for the Czech yesterday. He was the only skater for his team to exceed 20 minutes of icetime. He played nearly 25 minutes, while the next highest was Jakub Nakladal at 19:22. He got the tough minutes too, playing nearly 7 minutes of the PK and picked up an assist in 3 1/2 mnutes of PP time he got as well.

Anyway, second consecutive game he was the icetime leader for the team. It is at least encouraging to see his team trusting him in these close games against some very good forwards. They beat Russia 2-1 and team NA 3-2 with Kempny leading the charge defensively.

Obviously the Czech team isn't a Juggernaut on D, but he is at least getting icetime ahead of guys who are 15-20 minutes a night players in the NHL. i.e. Polak, Michalek, Sustr...

The 700K they signed Kempny to could end up being a real bargain. He might not be the best guy but he looks like he can play some minutes and possibly a good PK guy. Hopefully the Hawks can really distribute the D minutes this season and avoid wearing anyone down too much.
- breadbag

Oduya?

Well Kempny had to be a workhorse for the Czech yesterday. He was the only skater for his team to exceed 20 minutes of icetime. He played nearly 25 minutes, while the next highest was Jakub Nakladal at 19:22. He got the tough minutes too, playing nearly 7 minutes of the PK and picked up an assist in 3 1/2 mnutes of PP time he got as well.

Anyway, second consecutive game he was the icetime leader for the team. It is at least encouraging to see his team trusting him in these close games against some very good forwards. They beat Russia 2-1 and team NA 3-2 with Kempny leading the charge defensively.

Obviously the Czech team isn't a Juggernaut on D, but he is at least getting icetime ahead of guys who are 15-20 minutes a night players in the NHL. i.e. Polak, Michalek, Sustr...

The 700K they signed Kempny to could end up being a real bargain. He might not be the best guy but he looks like he can play some minutes and possibly a good PK guy. Hopefully the Hawks can really distribute the D minutes this season and avoid wearing anyone down too much.
- breadbag

I wish ESPN would have shown a Czech game, I wanted to get a look at Kempny. The box score looks good but I want to see game action. Guess I'll have to wait until the Czechs play either USA or Canada for ESPN to show a Czech game.

Too many holes. And too many important holes.

Would be nice to watch kids play a little and develop—at the proper pace for them and the organization.

But this is pretty close to sending the Hitlerjugend out with shoulder-fired grenade launchers against Soviet tanks. Sounds inspiring, but the odds are very long.

Hawks have not brought in any PTOs (yet) likely because they aren't finding anything remotely redeeming in the bargain bin.

Or, they have a deal waiting 'til after the WC.
- John Jaeckel

Most pessimistic I have been coming into a season in along time. Honestly this team is a top 6 injury away from a disaster. When december rolls around and this team is treading water aroud .500 and only wins 2-1 and 3-2 type games..that is can't score and dependent on a 200 point combo from 72 and 88...look out. When you are looking at a combo of panik, smaltz, hartmann or mott to make a leap to point production at the NHL level...this does not warm my heart.

Doubt very much Bettman & Co. would challenge one of the league's big cash cows by getting into a legal battle over territorial rights within the GTA. And there isn't any amount in indemnity money that would satisfy the Leafs owners.

And no other NHL arena in the suburbs right now. Another team would get support but it would be like the Ducks or Devils - 2nd class citizens to the big guys.

Quebec City will get a team eventually and Seattle is somewhere the league wants to go.
- RickJ

Wasn't advocating for another team in Toronto area but remarking on the differences in demographics with a team within 90 miles of Chicago.

THIS^^^^
- John Jaeckel

Toews is Sakic like. or Trottier or Stevie Y...He isn't necessarily there to score but to play the most important minutes and to play a defensive role like others can't.

Most pessimistic I have been coming into a season in along time. Honestly this team is a top 6 injury away from a disaster. When december rolls around and this team is treading water aroud .500 and only wins 2-1 and 3-2 type games..that is can't score and dependent on a 200 point combo from 72 and 88...look out. When you are looking at a combo of panik, smaltz, hartmann or mott to make a leap to point production at the NHL level...this does not warm my heart.
- bogiedoc

The 2013 Cup team wasn't necessarily an offensive dynamo. We had a great luxury of a 4th line with Kruger/Frolik/Bolland, but we you were also looking at a top 6 with Handzus.

What that team did have was a monster defense, similar to what we have now. I may even prefer the defense over the 2013 one. Not saying we're cup favorites because of the D, but maybe it gives a pretty strong reason to not abandon ship on the season quite yet.

If that were true, Nashville would have a cup already.
- L_B_R

Nashville has had no one remotely comparable to Toews or Kane ever. Or anywhere near the combination of Sharp, Saad and Hossa to fill in the other spots. Not even close.

Plus Keith > Webber on every fathomable level.

Now with Subban, Forsberg and maybe if Johansen can put it together they will be a very very dangerous group. But in the past - Nah, not comparable.

By the time you pay the guys to replace Crawford, there isn't enough money left to get a top nine guy up front.

As for goalies, ask ANA how they feel about that after losing to us in the last cup run. Goaltending was THE factor in that series. Crawford ate up Andersen. And by ate up I mean when the saves HAD to be made, CC made them and Andersen did not.

If you have a two time winner with perennial Vezina candidacy, you keep them. ESPECIALLY in advance of an expansion year where losing your top five #1 relegates you to #32 on the NHL depth chart.

As for the defense, yes this year - very good corps. But we lose Campbell as he has a one year deal, Kempny will need to be resigned, and TVR will be exposed to the expansion draft.
- Return of the Roar

This year is all that matters and you deal with next year when it happens. Gotta win while Keiths legs are still strong and Toews brain is still relatively unrattled (he has a history there in case anyone chooses to remember or not)

Pay what guys? Darling is hellah cheap and all he has to do is not completely suck. Like be as good as Neimi was in 2010 and golden. Which, from what I have seen, is totally possible.

The 2013 Cup team wasn't necessarily an offensive dynamo. We had a great luxury of a 4th line with Kruger/Frolik/Bolland, but we you were also looking at a top 6 with Handzus.

What that team did have was a monster defense, similar to what we have now. I may even prefer the defense over the 2013 one. Not saying we're cup favorites because of the D, but maybe it gives a pretty strong reason to not abandon ship on the season quite yet.
- teh_HAWKZ

One bright side is that our D has decent offensive talent to help take some load off the forwards. I think you are right, we can't judge how the season will go yet, but I do think there are some real unknowns. It will be fun to see who sinks and who swims. The coaching staff will have work to do getting the most out of what they have.