136 goals 5x5 - 20th in the league.

Also - 17 empty net goals - 7.3% of they're total goals - both 3rd in the league
- StLBravesFan

Correct. As I said all year last year and since, a good 3-on-3 team that is mediocre to bad 5-on-5 can dominate in the regular season (relatively speaking) and is an easy out in the playoffs.

Why bad 5-on-5? Well, one line was very good, the rest not so much.

Break down where they ranked in goals scored 5-on5 versus 5-on-4, 4-on-3, and especially 3-on-3.

Very revealing, and cause for concern because not much has been done to fix this problem.
- John Jaeckel

I agree somewhat, but at the end of the day a goal is a goal. Too little and too much emphasis can be put on the 5v5 number. It is a fancy stat during the season. But the value of that stat is diminished in the playoffs.

The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring. 167
The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring "against". 158
The Hawks were tied for 10th in 5v5 scoring differential. +9

A better blue line this year could help the Hawks both offensively and defensively in the 5v5, thereby increasing the differential.

The top 9 teams in 5v5 scoring differential:
1 Wash 43
2 Flor 40
3 LA K 35
4 NYR 31
5 Dal 28
6 Pit 28
7 Tamp 23
8 Sharks 15
9 St L 13

How did that work out for top 5. Florida, LA Kings, New York Rangers lost in the first round. Washington and Dallas lost in the 2nd round.

I agree somewhat, but at the end of the day a goal is a goal. Too little and too much emphasis can be put on the 5v5 number. It is a fancy stat during the season. But the value of that stat is diminished in the playoffs.

The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring. 167
The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring "against". 158
The Hawks were tied for 10th in 5v5 scoring differential. +9

A better blue line this year could help the Hawks both offensively and defensively in the 5v5, thereby increasing the differential.

The top 9 teams in 5v5 scoring differential:
1 Wash 43
2 Flor 40
3 LA K 35
4 NYR 31
5 Dal 28
6 Pit 28
7 Tamp 23
8 Sharks 15
9 St L 13

How did that work out for top 5. Florida, LA Kings, New York Rangers lost in the first round. Washington and Dallas lost in the 2nd round.
- -Doh-

(My numbers were even strength goals and differentials, not limited to 5v5)

Wonder if Hartman and Lundberg claim spots means Desi could be on the way out. TVR/Desi/pick for possible forward help? Between the two thats about 1.6 off the book. Add that to the rough 2.3 we have to spend? For 3.8'ish Im sure we could find a wing to help out.
- z1990z

Desi still a real good value, worst case he is a the F version of Rosi

The Desi and Rosi show, kind of has a ring to it

lets just hope you don't have to use it very many nights..............................

I agree somewhat, but at the end of the day a goal is a goal. Too little and too much emphasis can be put on the 5v5 number. It is a fancy stat during the season. But the value of that stat is diminished in the playoffs.

The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring. 167
The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring "against". 158
The Hawks were tied for 10th in 5v5 scoring differential. +9

A better blue line this year could help the Hawks both offensively and defensively in the 5v5, thereby increasing the differential.

The top 9 teams in 5v5 scoring differential:
1 Wash 43
2 Flor 40
3 LA K 35
4 NYR 31
5 Dal 28
6 Pit 28
7 Tamp 23
8 Sharks 15
9 St L 13

How did that work out for top 5. Florida, LA Kings, New York Rangers lost in the first round. Washington and Dallas lost in the 2nd round.
- -Doh-

Here's why the distinction matters. A goal is not just a goal. The Hawks were a very good, I think top 3, team 3-on-3. Those goals translate directly into regular seasonwins.

There's no 3 on 3 in the playoffs. Overtime, which happens a lot more in the playoffs, is settled 5 on 5.

PLUS, when you are essentially a 1 line team, or on a good night a 2 line team, your odds are much better during the regular season against the average team in the NHL.

But in the playoffs, only the top 16 make it. With better defenses that go deeper. So the forward lines that you could win with most nights in the regular season versus average competition are much more challenged in the playoffs versus better competition.

So being a good 3-on-3 team and an average 5-on-5 team is bad in the playoffs. There is really no arguing it.

I agree somewhat, but at the end of the day a goal is a goal. Too little and too much emphasis can be put on the 5v5 number. It is a fancy stat during the season. But the value of that stat is diminished in the playoffs.

The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring. 167
The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring "against". 158
The Hawks were tied for 10th in 5v5 scoring differential. +9

A better blue line this year could help the Hawks both offensively and defensively in the 5v5, thereby increasing the differential.

The top 9 teams in 5v5 scoring differential:
1 Wash 43
2 Flor 40
3 LA K 35
4 NYR 31
5 Dal 28
6 Pit 28
7 Tamp 23
8 Sharks 15
9 St L 13

How did that work out for top 5. Florida, LA Kings, New York Rangers lost in the first round. Washington and Dallas lost in the 2nd round.
- -Doh-[/quote]

Well Washington and Dallas went a round farther than the Hawks did. The 6th and 8th place teams made the finals—both significantly better than the Hawks. The 6th ranked team won the Cup. So the logic is kinda weak there. Leaving out the fact that a LOT of how they did in the playoffs depends on their competition in the playoffs.

And go back and look at the tape of the St. Louis series, the Hawks were better with Ladd, as far as 5-on-5 balance, but St. Louis' d depth was a huge factor. I WILL admit adding the mobility of Campbell and Kempny will help the Hawks d depth and how THEY match up. But right now, the Hawks forward lines are a pretty easy mark for an opponent with a solid top 4 to match up with. At least, it's not remotely like their Cup years where their forward depth was nightmare for opposing coaches come playoff time.

Wonder if Hartman and Lundberg claim spots means Desi could be on the way out. TVR/Desi/pick for possible forward help? Between the two thats about 1.6 off the book. Add that to the rough 2.3 we have to spend? For 3.8'ish Im sure we could find a wing to help out.
- z1990z

I personally would retain Desjardins. He's definitely not in the core and is far from untouchable, but he's affordable and reliable. Of the projected bottom-6 candidates, Kruger and Desjardins are the only locks IMHO. Trade Desjardins, then you only have Kruger surrounded by players who are not established yet in the NHL -- whether rookies or guys like Rasmussen and Lundberg who have Swedish elite league experience but not NHL experience -- or players who could contribute but are also near the end of their career (i.e. Tootoo, possible PTOs).

If there's an awesome trade in the works that packages Desjardins, then by all means ship him out. But I wouldn't under estimate his value to the team. Great teammate and foot soldier. Plus he's a solid penalty killer.

Here's why the distinction matters. A goal is not just a goal. The Hawks were a very good, I think top 3, team 3-on-3. Those goals translate directly into regular seasonwins.

There's no 3 on 3 in the playoffs. Overtime, which happens a lot more in the playoffs, is settled 5 on 5.

PLUS, when you are essentially a 1 line team, or on a good night a 2 line team, your odds are much better during the regular season against the average team in the NHL.

But in the playoffs, only the top 16 make it. With better defenses that go deeper. So the forward lines that you could win with most nights in the regular season versus average competition are much more challenged in the playoffs versus better competition.

So being a good 3-on-3 team and an average 5-on-5 team is bad in the playoffs. There is really no arguing it.
- John Jaeckel

One thing I kind of hoped last year was that the PP would cool off more and the Hawks would be forced to get more done 5v5. I agree 5v5 is important but when the PP is clicking it takes the pressure off at even strength and the team uses the PP as a crutch a bit too much. Not saying this is a dramatic difference, but I believe it to be a factor.

If the Hawks are 10th in the conference February 25th . . .?

Because that is a real possibility without some changes. The West is very good 1-10.
- John Jaeckel

If that is the case, then the Hawks take a hard look the team and start to evaluate how close they are to rebuilding vs tweaking to get back into the mix. I think until the Hawks fall out of the playoffs, we can assume they will be in the hunt. I'm fairly sure the front office will be quick to make a trade if they struggle early this year.

I will add about 15 months ago or so, I was feeling they should trade Crawford and go with Raanta/Darling combo...just so they could retain Sharp or Saad. I still wonder "what if" in regards to how that goalie tandem would have done this past season.

Those first 20 games this season will interesting and probably we'll know what this team is by then.

If that is the case, then the Hawks take a hard look the team and start to evaluate how close they are to rebuilding vs tweaking to get back into the mix. I think until the Hawks fall out of the playoffs, we can assume they will be in the hunt. I'm fairly sure the front office will be quick to make a trade if they struggle early this year.

I will add about 15 months ago or so, I was feeling they should trade Crawford and go with Raanta/Darling combo...just so they could retain Sharp or Saad. I still wonder "what if" in regards to how that goalie tandem would have done this past season.

Those first 20 games this season will interesting and probably we'll know what this team is by then.
- breadbag

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Hawks were going to trade Sharp regardless of his salary. So any deals to shed salary was meant to re-sign other players like Saad, but not Sharp.

[quote=-Doh-]I agree somewhat, but at the end of the day a goal is a goal. Too little and too much emphasis can be put on the 5v5 number. It is a fancy stat during the season. But the value of that stat is diminished in the playoffs.

The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring. 167
The Hawks were tied for 13th in 5v5 scoring "against". 158
The Hawks were tied for 10th in 5v5 scoring differential. +9

A better blue line this year could help the Hawks both offensively and defensively in the 5v5, thereby increasing the differential.

The top 9 teams in 5v5 scoring differential:
1 Wash 43
2 Flor 40
3 LA K 35
4 NYR 31
5 Dal 28
6 Pit 28
7 Tamp 23
8 Sharks 15
9 St L 13

How did that work out for top 5. Florida, LA Kings, New York Rangers lost in the first round. Washington and Dallas lost in the 2nd round.
- John Jaeckel[/quote]

Well Washington and Dallas went a round farther than the Hawks did. The 6th and 8th place teams made the finals—both significantly better than the Hawks. The 6th ranked team won the Cup. So the logic is kinda weak there. Leaving out the fact that a LOT of how they did in the playoffs depends on their competition in the playoffs.

And go back and look at the tape of the St. Louis series, the Hawks were better with Ladd, as far as 5-on-5 balance, but St. Louis' d depth was a huge factor. I WILL admit adding the mobility of Campbell and Kempny will help the Hawks d depth and how THEY match up. But right now, the Hawks forward lines are a pretty easy mark for an opponent with a solid top 4 to match up with. At least, it's not remotely like their Cup years where their forward depth was nightmare for opposing coaches come playoff time.

Washington played Philly in the first round
Dallas played Minny in the first round
So your logic is kind of weak there.

the 6th and 8th place teams were in the finals and the Hawks were 10th. So not a huge difference.

Though I concede if you take out 3v3 and empty net, the Hawks look much more average.

Or it is an excuse to not play in the fake tourney
- vabeachbear

And with Kieths personal life falling apart last year he may have chosen to spend time with his young son.

Mark Lazerus ‏@MarkLazerus 14s14 seconds ago
Brandon Saad said last season w/ #CBJ made him appreciate his time with #Blackhawks even more. "It's something you can't take for granted."

Mark Lazerus ‏@MarkLazerus 3m3 minutes ago
Brandon Saad said he has "no regrets" about how things went down last summer. #Blackhawks
- DarthKane

Hey kid, enjoy your $36M and early tee-times for another five Aprils. You left the best team in the universe for an AHL team impersonating a big league club in a college town. In the terms of Oktoberfest, starting tomorrow: Prost!

And with Kieths personal life falling apart last year he may have chosen to spend time with his young son.
- eagle50

Going through a divorce doesn't mean your life falls apart, but it can put an extreme amount of pressure on you.

The reasons for Keith's divorce are his personal business, but I'm sure if had an impact on his game play. As professional as Keith is it's hard (if not impossible) to not left something like a divorce effect your day to day life and job, especially if their are kids involved.

If the Hawks are 10th in the conference February 25th . . .?

Because that is a real possibility without some changes. The West is very good 1-10.
- John Jaeckel

They won't drop kick any huge name then BUT....
If they miss the playoff or are out in Rd 1-Look out next summer.

This is a big season in quite a few ways, cuz I think it will dictate the direction over the next few years.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Hawks were going to trade Sharp regardless of his salary. So any deals to shed salary was meant to re-sign other players like Saad, but not Sharp.
- AEL_Fox

Even if Crawford gets dealt right after a Stanley Cup win both Sharp and Saad would not have stayed.

Going through a divorce doesn't mean your life falls apart, but it can put an extreme amount of pressure on you.

The reasons for Keith's divorce are his personal business, but I'm sure if had an impact on his game play. As professional as Keith is it's hard (if not impossible) to not left something like a divorce effect your day to day life and job, especially if their are kids involved.
- DarthKane

I never was trying to insinuate that he fell apart but I wouldn't be surprised that he now weighs his priorities differently now and his time off with his son perhaps is his focus.You are right about his situation being no ones business but his and his families.

I never was trying to insinuate that he fell apart but I wouldn't be surprised that he now weighs his priorities differently now and his time off with his son perhaps is his focus.You are right about his situation being no ones business but his and his families.
- eagle50

I wasn't directly that comment solely at you either. There have been comments (not just here) that Keith's divorce has impacted his on-ice performance when it shouldn't have.

I know we want the players to always be at their best, but these are just regular guys and they go through some of the same regular issues we do. The fact that Keith makes $5+ million per season means nothing when he's fighting for custody/access to his child (as an example).

Rookie Tourney lineup this evening:



ETA: @HawksBreakdown is doing some stats comparisons amongst the various prospects, like this one:



Quote: One looks like a top-10 pick, the other is taller

Scott Powers ‏@ByScottPowers 7m7 minutes ago
Traverse City rookie tournament games are being streamed on http://DetroitRedWings.com .

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Hawks were going to trade Sharp regardless of his salary. So any deals to shed salary was meant to re-sign other players like Saad, but not Sharp.
- AEL_Fox

Sure, maybe that is the case, but my point was more about keeping 1 of the 2 rather than losing both. Take your pick, it doesn't really matter at this point.

Rookie Tourney lineup this evening:



ETA: @HawksBreakdown is doing some stats comparisons amongst the various prospects, like this one:



Quote: One looks like a top-10 pick, the other is taller
- pdx2ord

I know he may be a long shot, but I am interested to see how Fortin will do.

Also, while I don't know to much about him I thought Knott was a LW, interesting to see him playing centre.

Rockford IceHogs ‏@goicehogs 2m2 minutes ago
Just about ready to go with Game 1 of the Rookie Tournament vs St. Louis. Watch live at http://chicagoblackhawks.com or via the FOX Sports GO app

Well, the Hawk rookies lost but didn't play too badly. They pretty much owned possession of the puck and had control accept for a couple breakdowns. Out of the forwards, I was most impressed with Schmaltz, and his line with Motte and Debbie seemed to make the most happen on the attack.

Well, the Hawk rookies lost but didn't play too badly. They pretty much owned possession of the puck and had control accept for a couple breakdowns. Out of the forwards, I was most impressed with Schmaltz, and his line with Motte and Debbie seemed to make the most happen on the attack.
- breadbag

Nice goal by Motte to get them back in the game in the third.I was also impressed by Fortin as he seemed to be a presence out there even though to me he didn't seem to have a great game.I used to go watch these games when they played in London but I am thankful that at least I am able to watch online.