Just Rutts being Rutts...
- Iggysbff

Exactly. HB is not the place to be all serious and not joke around a little....you grumpy old bastard.

Fine. Stumbling? Staggering? I did use the emoticon so that means I am not complaining about this fact.
- leonkennedy

That's not how emoticons work. They are not get out of jail free cards.

That's not how emoticons work. They are not get out of jail free cards.
- -Dangles13-

They sure as heck are. It's in the Geneva convention.
And by crawling I meant it in the way that it was done all stealthy and ninja like. So as not to alert the mods. Which is a moot point once that limey bastard Lums shows up and then Facebooks all his ref buddies to tell him about it.

That post is lacking some pom poms. You are going to be labeled a grumpy Gus pretty quickly.
- NEONDOUBLEDION

There's a big difference between not liking what's going on with your team and just being an bumhole to everyone that has a different opinion than you.

Trading Hall should have netted an Ekblad not a guy that is maybe going to be a number #2. He isn't unproven but there is a big difference in being hidden in the swamp and in the lime light of Canadian hockey. Two years ago he was maybe a bust and now is a stud I think the answer is somewhere in between hopefully.
- NEONDOUBLEDION

Ekblad? Seriously? There's not a chance in hell Hall is worth that. Stud defensemen are worth more than wingers. I thought this was common knowledge

Did all the homework and it's still the same conclusion. Chia got ass raped. Period.
- Iggysbff

Hallfan is that you?

Exactly. No one is going to be upset if he turns into Hedman but you also need to be prepared for the Phillips possibility. But some of these clowns are already all in with him being the chosen one to lead the Oilers into the light. Don't forget that Reinhart was supposed to be a top 4 defender easy and he ended up in the minors. Larsson is the new shiny toy till Johnny Hockey burns him for a hat trick.
- NEONDOUBLEDION

Except Larsson is already better than Chris Phillips ever was so your arguement means jack poop.

Really? You seriously can't understand this? You do know McDavid is going to get paid when his ELC is up. Plus the likelihood that Draisaitl continues to play well means he will get paid too. Managing the cap is an important part of being a GM these days.
- leonkennedy

I understand it, its just if cap was an issue here, I'm pretty sure that it would have been resolved by adding in another piece (like Yak... 2.5m).

So cap would have never been an issue at all if the trade was structured correctly.

Except Larsson is already better than Chris Phillips ever was so your arguement means jack poop.
- Ihatebrianburke

According to what exactly?

Montreal didn't want Hall from what I've read. It was reported that they wanted Draisaitl, Nurse and the 2016 4th. And if that was the case then Bergevin can go (frank) himself.
- Wildschwein

I'm talking about what Hall's "theoretical value" would be (from our perspective***). Like what would be considered a fair return for him if he was available.

The thing that bothered me the most about the Hall trade is that the defence is still full of question marks. Can Klefbom stay healthy and take another step? Will Nurse calm his tits and take another step? Will Reinhart evolve from his current stage as a sexy paperweight? Can Larsson play up to his potential?
- -Dangles13-

The hatty Draisaitl scored today against King Henrik and Sweden's D says he's ready to take his game to the next level.

The hatty Draisaitl scored today against King Henrik and Sweden's D says he's ready to take his game to the next level.
- Ihatebrianburke

But how does that help the D?

Stop responding to me with your Hallfan length drivel.
- Iggysbff

Not drivel, but actual thought if you can actually read.

I will admit that my posts are quite lengthy. I'll keep that in mind.

I think a lot of teams wanted Draisaitl...thats who the Avs were asking for if they moved Barrie.

the fact that he is good and cost controlled for a few more years until a really fat contract is super enticing for teams but hes still not an established player yet, who knows how good he ends up being, but the upside is too good to pass up. I assume Chia felt the same way
- DDM-Coga

Should pulled the trigger on that Yak for Barrie trade. Maybe then you'd still have your coach

I understand it, its just if cap was an issue here, I'm pretty sure that it would have been resolved by adding in another piece (like Yak... 2.5m).

So cap would have never been an issue at all if the trade was structured correctly.
- EdmHockeyMan

Yeah it is not about the cap this year. It is about the cap down the road when you have a dman making 9 mil a year and a McDavid who will be commanding that much at the very least for a long term deal.

Stop responding to me with your Hallfan length drivel.
- Iggysbff

Stop responding to people with your Hallfan level of Chiarelli hate. Get over it and get a life.

I understand it, its just if cap was an issue here, I'm pretty sure that it would have been resolved by adding in another piece (like Yak... 2.5m).

So cap would have never been an issue at all if the trade was structured correctly.
- EdmHockeyMan

How would we be able to afford Subban's 9 mill, McDavid's blank cheque amount, and 2- forwards to replace Hall and Yak?

The hatty Draisaitl scored today against King Henrik and Sweden's D says he's ready to take his game to the next level.
- Ihatebrianburke

Can't wait til Chiarelli trades him next summer for the next "maybe" on defense.

Except Larsson is already better than Chris Phillips ever was so your arguement means jack poop.
- Ihatebrianburke

Just a quick look at career stats here.

ATOI: Philips - 20:42, Larsson - 20:39
CF%: Philips - 49, Larsson - 48
PTS/GM: Philips - 0.24, Larsson - 0.25

Obviously that's a very skewed study as Philips did it over 1179 games and Larsson only has 274 but I'd say their numbers are very close. I'm not sure if you're undervaluing Philips or overvaluing Larsson but if we got a 20 minute a night defenceman for another 800 games that's alright.

Yeah it is not about the cap this year. It is about the cap down the road when you have a dman making 9 mil a year and a McDavid who will be commanding that much at the very least for a long term deal.
- leonkennedy

By trading away Yak though, you won't have to worry about signing him, dealing with his agent or whatever.

You got a player entirely off the books. If Yak were to be resigned tomorrow, you're looking at the 2mill. range for maybe 2-3 years.

So technically, 6m+2.5m=8.5m in total cap space traded away in year 1.
6m+2m=8m in total cap space "traded away" or rebalanced" in year 2,3,4, etc.
(These two estimates are without Subban's contract balanced (OBVIOUSLY, but just clarifying)).

But how does that help the D?
- -Dangles13-

The Reinhart trade was stupid. We needed a NHL ready D. Not another prospect.

The Reinhart trade was stupid. We needed a NHL ready D. Not another prospect.
- Ihatebrianburke

I'm so lost.

Can't wait til Chiarelli trades him next summer for the next "maybe" on defense.
- Iggysbff

No you just can't wait to whine and female dog and complain. I feel sorry for people that have to deal with you in your day to day life like family and co-workers.

Just a quick look at career stats here.

ATOI: Philips - 20:42, Larsson - 20:39
CF%: Philips - 49, Larsson - 48
PTS/GM: Philips - 0.24, Larsson - 0.25

Obviously that's a very skewed study as Philips did it over 1179 games and Larsson only has 274 but I'd say their numbers are very close. I'm not sure if you're undervaluing Philips or overvaluing Larsson but if we got a 20 minute a night defenceman for another 800 games that's alright.
- -Dangles13-

I used to watch a lot of Ottawa games when he was in his prime and I think Larsson is better. Plus I wanted us to draft him over Nuge to begin with.

By trading away Yak though, you won't have to worry about signing him, dealing with his agent or whatever.

You got a player entirely off the books. If Yak were to be resigned tomorrow, you're looking at the 2mill. range for maybe 2-3 years.

So technically, 6m+2.5m=8.5m in total cap space traded away in year 1.
6m+2m=8m in total cap space "traded away" or rebalanced" in year 2,3,4, etc.

To sum it up, you probably only gained 1m in cap space to acquire a player like Subban who has a contract that doesn't end until he is in the good portion of his 30's.

I'd take that deal any day of the week.
- EdmHockeyMan

Yak isn't going to be with the Oil for much longer so his cap hit is irrelevant to what Subbans is. The point being that down the road with two players on one team tying up at the minimum 18million, or about 25% of the cap, that creates a lot of difficulty trying to fill out your roster with a competitive team.