It is not even remotely difficult to come up with a scenario where a team can have much more actual possession of the puck and much fewer shots.

Beyond that, even if I accept shots towards the goal as a proxy for possession (and I actually do accept this over a large enough sample size), then I am still not convinced that we are measuring something that is as valuable as some make it out to be and I certainly don't think we can come up with numbers to tenths (I've even seen hundreths !!) of a percent accuracy and use that to compare players.

CF%, 2015-2016, players with over 1000 minutes...

Seguin - 31
Kucherov - 37
Crosby - 39
Benn - 49
Burns - 54
Tarasenko - 55
Ovechkin - 57
P. Kane - 96
Karlsson - 101
Tavares - 103
Toews - 113
Ekman-Larsson - 145


... but yeah, we shouldn't be questioning how useful these stats are right? It would be narrow-minded of us to do so.

How can anyone take a stat seriously that ranks players like that.
- Aetherial

Who was the top ten CF%?

Outstanding blog,

Considering how young those advanced stats are I don't understand how people can't see there's flaws in them.

Anyone who thinks Rundblad is a good defenseman has bad eyes or is blind, but you know having a hall of fame coach putting him in a place to succeed during the regular season has nothing to do with the players success

Just like Pietrangelo, I think he lead the NHL in defensive end draws, both regular season and playoffs, why because Hitchcock knows how good defensively he is compared to Parayko and Shattenkirk and what a team player probably why he's getting the C this year, do you think that had an affect on his scoring,

I'm too lazy to do the research.

I can only assume one day people will be discussing this Magic Stat that really seems to assess and rank players in a way that makes at least some sense.
- Aetherial

Okay, therein lies the issue. If you're not willing to research and understand both sides to a debate, expect that your opinion won't be taken as seriously.

Okay, therein lies the issue. If you're not willing to research and understand both sides to a debate, expect that your opinion won't be taken as seriously.
- MaximumBone

Therein does not lie the issue.

I picked a specific point and I made my case.

Why would I bother to debate any other crap I don't care about. If there is more to it than Corsi then let's stop talking about Corsi.

Advanced stat proponents don't take dissenting opinions seriously.

Advanced stats > the average fans eye test.
- daeth

The problem is, there are piles of different stats to choose from, and when combined, they can be interpreted in many different ways.

On top of that, there is a degree of subjectivity in stats, advanced stats, all of them.

In the NHL, EA Sports and things announcers on TV say shape how almost all people see things
-Tanner

It's really not worth reading the rest of your essay.

Hockey fans don't form their own opinions, they just regurgitate what they hear on tv .................except you right?

Search "hope solo nephew"
- lumlums

They seem like a well-balanced family.

That one in Norway is DELICIOUS

You can make a variation of it using a soft wrap (not corn) and put potato salad and dried onions in the wrap with mustard topping. Sounds crazy... but it's delicious.
- mlindsay

I made half of them last night... Tonight I hope to finish off the second half of the menu... Can't wait to try the Norway

Therein does not lie the issue.

I picked a specific point and I made my case.

Why would I bother to debate any other crap I don't care about. If there is more to it than Corsi then let's stop talking about Corsi.

Advanced stat proponents don't take dissenting opinions seriously.
- Aetherial

Why would you stop discussing one thing simply because there's more to it? Most of these stats have correlation to one another and are typically best utilized when presented together. That's a big reason why those HERO charts skyrocketed in popularity. They aggregate information from multiple stats and present it in a simple (albeit flawed) graph that's easy to read.

Corsi isn't the be all end all, but there's merit in reviewing the raw shot attempt numbers that it provides. Fenwick is an extension of Corsi that tracks high-value scoring chances (from the slot). By finding the outliers between those two groups you can typically find the players and/or systems that "cheat" the numbers and shoot from the outside.

There are certainly those who don't take dissenting opinions the way they ought to, but can you blame them when that opinion is coming from someone who actively admits to not being willing to take the time to understand their side?

Why would you stop discussing one thing simply because there's more to it? Most of these stats have correlation to one another and are typically best utilized when presented together. That's a big reason why those HERO charts skyrocketed in popularity. They aggregate information from multiple stats and present it in a simple (albeit flawed) graph that's easy to read.

Corsi isn't the be all end all, but there's merit in reviewing the raw shot attempt numbers that it provides. Fenwick is an extension of Corsi that tracks high-value scoring chances (from the slot). By finding the outliers between those two groups you can typically find the players and/or systems that "cheat" the numbers and shoot from the outside.

There are certainly those who don't take dissenting opinions the way they ought to, but can you blame them when that opinion is coming from someone who actively admits to not being willing to take the time to understand their side?
- MaximumBone

LOL, I think you are confusing my willingness to waste my time on this thread with caring about a debate on the issue. I gave up on the advanced stats proponents years ago.

LOL, I think you are confusing my willingness to waste my time on this thread with caring about a debate on the issue. I gave up on the advanced stats proponents years ago.
- Aetherial

Okay, I can agree some of those who follow it religiously (Tanner) can be annoying, but you and I have had reasonable discourse before, right? Yet I'm a proponent of those same stats.

Okay, I can agree some of those who follow it religiously (Tanner) can be annoying, but you and I have had reasonable discourse before, right? Yet I'm a proponent of those same stats.
- MaximumBone

and there are others who I don't mind talking to about it, like Senstroll on the Leafs threads.

It was really just Yost (and a bunch of Ottawa fans), Mirtle (the worst of the bunch) and Tanner, who seems to go out of his way to purposely be obnoxious.

and there are others who I don't mind talking to about it, like Senstroll on the Leafs threads.

It was really just Yost (and a bunch of Ottawa fans), Mirtle (the worst of the bunch) and Tanner, who seems to go out of his way to purposely be obnoxious.
- Aetherial

I go out of my way to be obnoxious.

I go out of my way to be obnoxious.
- daeth

You have seniority over me here.

I go out of my way to be obnoxious.
- daeth

It comes to me naturally.

It comes to me naturally.
- 1979AD

I go out of my way to be obnoxious.
- daeth

Great blog Frenchy.

Couldn't help but read this as a James Tanner vs. John Jaeckel perspective.

Tanner argues like his chosen statistics are the written word of god and JJ thinks every top Hawks player is the top in their position league-wide because... 3 cups...

It comes to me naturally.
- 1979AD

You are my sensei.

I go out of my way to be obnoxious.
- daeth

lol you cuck

lol you cuck
- BINGO!

lol you cuck
- BINGO!

stop calling yourself names

stop calling yourself names
- daeth

I deserve it.

Probably.

Shut up... You're all cucks.

Shut up... You're all cucks.
- laughs2907

go cuck yourself