I'm going to the Tuesday night and Wednesday day game in Seattle. Been going down every year for this series for a long time.
In the last 2-3 years it has become a great spectacle of Jays fans. Literally 80% of Safeco Field is Jays fans. Restaurants, bars and the streets are filled with people in Jays gear.

Unfortunately mlb continues to mess it up and make the series mid week.
- Scooby_Doo

Apparently, the Jays have by far the most travelling fans.

That is really weird for a country obsessed with hockey vs. all these teams where baseball is the national pastime.

disagree even though i'm a tank proponent.

there hasn't been a model that has proven to be successful in winning championships. the 2 most successful teams (Chi and LA) of this decade could be considered tank teams that won but they won approximately 5-8 years after their tanks.

so... high end talent is definitely needed (and it is mostly found at the top of the draft) but there are A LOT of other factors that come into play.

the fact that the tank method is now being widely lauded is somewhat baffling considering it would be a superficial and simplistic argument to say that it is a proven method to winning.
- RealityChecker

I think nothing is proven to win... but increasingly I don't see how you get top talent without doing it unless you get extremely lucky in the draft.

Detroit was constantly held up as the anti-tank standard, but they did it by some good, and some VERY lucky drafting. We all know drafting is far from an exact science.

There have been a couple of your guys who have come over to talk Jays and been rebuked, which is really (frank)ing annoying. Jays are definitely Canada's team. I went to the Oakland Coliseum to see them a couple of months back and there were lots of Jays fans there with roots from all over Canada - it was awesome

I'm hoping to try and convince Mrs Lums to get a couple of tickets to (one of) the games in Seattle in a few weeks as we'll be out that way
- lumlums

First time is 6 years I won't be seeing them in Seattle...stupid mid week games Watching them play the Angels in LA the weekend before which should be better anyways

What exactly is the vancouver approach?
You arent purposely tanking.....youre not good....but not by design...by bad trades and signings.
- Fakepartofme

I believe JB started with an aging roster and identified an age gap and tried to fill it by trading players for picks or prospects, or prospects for prospects that were a little older and at the point where they are ready to contribute. all the while making the most of draft picks we keep.

As with drafting, trades can be just as much a gamble, especially when trading for younger players that aren't established.

when you say, " you're not good" what do you mean by that? what qualifies as good? if we make the playoffs. are we good? or do we have to win the cup?

As long as the Sedins are in the lineup, we have a chance of making the playoffs. I can live with that. just hoping JB keeps drafting well because when they retire, there will be a dip, it is just a matter of how long the dip will be and that is predicated on the team JB has built to that point.

I'm going to the Tuesday night and Wednesday day game in Seattle. Been going down every year for this series for a long time.
In the last 2-3 years it has become a great spectacle of Jays fans. Literally 80% of Safeco Field is Jays fans. Restaurants, bars and the streets are filled with people in Jays gear.

Unfortunately mlb continues to mess it up and make the series mid week.
- Scooby_Doo

Its great to see that on TV.
Must be fun in the restaurants and bars when that occurs.
I remember going to several sens and habs games where the same occurred with leaf fans.
Just took over blocks of downtown.

Pot: Hey how are you?
Kettle: Doing great, good to see you again.

Its not the Canada Blue Jays....so technically you are a fan of their team. But what's great, is the whole country has embraced....and has done so for decades.
- Fakepartofme

Did they not,just recently, wear red with a maple leaf on their cap? This would signify that they are more Canada's team than Toronto's. But this is a hockey thread, so we should all stfu about baseball.

Horvat, Tanev, Hutton and Virtanen
- CanuckDon

I'll give you Hutton as developed properly ...tanev too although he was a free agent who just wasn't good enough yet

Has bo been developed properly or is he just good enough to play in the league ...offensively he has shown good ability ...his minus 37 or whatever with linemates being blamed for this by most on here can't exactly be called good development ...he was in over his head as the 2C last year defensively ...they should have brought in soneone to help with the 2C duty ...JV ...I don't think you can say they developed him properly ...last year was a train wreck for him and hopefully he can bounce back and have a better year this year

I was huge fan of Virtanen.....until his recent Team Canada jr tourny.
- Fakepartofme

Nobody cares how you feel about Virtanen. Beat it parasite

I'm going to the Tuesday night and Wednesday day game in Seattle. Been going down every year for this series for a long time.
In the last 2-3 years it has become a great spectacle of Jays fans. Literally 80% of Safeco Field is Jays fans. Restaurants, bars and the streets are filled with people in Jays gear.

Unfortunately mlb continues to mess it up and make the series mid week.
- Scooby_Doo

Good stuff

Shame that the games are mid-week as you say - I ran into the same issue with wanting to get down to AT&T for the Giants vs Jays. Luckily the A's had two weekend games so was able to slightly make up for it

First time is 6 years I won't be seeing them in Seattle...stupid mid week games Watching them play the Angels in LA the weekend before which should be better anyways
- CanuckDon

Nice!

I've yet to get down to LA for a game of any kind, but hope to be able to do so at some point soon

I'll give you Hutton as developed properly ...tanev too although he was a free agent who just wasn't good enough yet

Has bo been developed properly or is he just good enough to play in the league ...offensively he has shown good ability ...his minus 37 or whatever with linemates being blamed for this by most on here can't exactly be called good development ...he was in over his head as the 2C last year defensively ...they should have brought in soneone to help with the 2C duty ...JV ...I don't think you can say they developed him properly ...last year was a train wreck for him and hopefully he can bounce back and have a better year this year
- Redmile247

Many on here feel Bo is our next captain, yes, I'd say he has been developed properly. Bo was too strong a player to be toiling away in the AHL. Ideally, Sutter would have helped shelter him a bit but injuries are a part of the game. Canucks fans aren't too concerned about his +/- Virtanen's season wasn't a train wreck at all. Watch the games if you are going to comment on another teams players.

I believe JB started with an aging roster and identified an age gap and tried to fill it by trading players for picks or prospects, or prospects for prospects that were a little older and at the point where they are ready to contribute. all the while making the most of draft picks we keep.

As with drafting, trades can be just as much a gamble, especially when trading for younger players that aren't established.

when you say, " you're not good" what do you mean by that? what qualifies as good? if we make the playoffs. are we good? or do we have to win the cup?

As long as the Sedins are in the lineup, we have a chance of making the playoffs. I can live with that. just hoping JB keeps drafting well because when they retire, there will be a dip, it is just a matter of how long the dip will be and that is predicated on the team JB has built to that point.
- hillbillydeluxe

The problem with Vancouver is you're stuck with the Sedins....they really need to be traded to really kick start your rebuild into another gear.
You're not good as in, not a playoff team...much like the leafs the past 9 years. You're leafs not good before their purge.
But as is the norm....drafting will be the key.....its what has held Toronto back for years.

I can understand how that would be annoying.

The real problem is what we have been discussing. The salary cap has made it so that rebuilding on the fly doesn't look much like a good idea. You need to hit with at least 3 or 4 great draft picks and THEN make shrewd trades and contract decisions.

In today's NHL climate, it appears the Canucks are not going about things in a way that will lead to a championship.

That is a sad commentary on the state of the league more than anything.
- Aetherial

I disagree on that note, possibly because I drank the Koolaid, but heres why:

The Canucks drafting prior to Benning was dreadful (plus being a competitive team meant dealing picks at the TDL), that left an age gap in the prospect pool. Benning has acquired players under 25 who are mediocre but are still NHL bodies with room to improve. I equate those acquisitions similarly to middle round picks (for example a 2009 3rd rounder) turning into NHLers. Benning is still picking his first rounders and hoping to find his "elite" talent there, and by the time those players are ready you have the supplemented support "picks" he acquired via trade to create a competitive team.

It will require some luck to really pan out, like all other team's plans, but he has eliminated some risk in turning those picks into actual NHLers

man who let these calgary and toronto fans in here

Redmile and Lums are the cool ones that are allowed.
- SRam19

Canada Cup & Aetherial are , as well.

Did they not,just recently, wear red with a maple leaf on their cap? This would signify that they are more Canada's team than Toronto's. But this is a hockey thread, so we should all stfu about baseball.
- Retinalz

Well yes but no.....yes they wore red, but they were celebrating Canada baseball day.

Nobody cares how you feel about Virtanen. Beat it parasite
- CanuckDon

Ah honey.....come.....hug it out.

Pot: Hey how are you?
Kettle: Doing great, good to see you again.

Its not the Canada Blue Jays....so technically you are a fan of their team. But what's great, is the whole country has embraced....and has done so for decades.
- Fakepartofme

Technically they are a fan of my team. I know more about the Jays, watch more games and care more about their wins and losses than 99% of the people in the Leafs thread.

I'm from Toronto, but that has nothing to do with it.

To them, me being a Jays fan is some how related to the Leafs and Canucks spat we continue to have.

Many on here feel Bo is our next captain, yes, I'd say he has been developed properly. Virtanen's season wasn't a train wreck at all. Watch the games if you are going to comment on another teams players.
- CanuckDon

he really bounced back from the world jrs. I thought he tried to do too much at the tourney but the media sure loves a scapegoat too.

Well yes but no.....yes they wore red, but they were celebrating Canada baseball day.
- Fakepartofme

And this one for spring training...

I think nothing is proven to win... but increasingly I don't see how you get top talent without doing it unless you get extremely lucky in the draft.

Detroit was constantly held up as the anti-tank standard, but they did it by some good, and some VERY lucky drafting. We all know drafting is far from an exact science.
- Aetherial

it's going to be funny if edm wins... and that is a very distinct possibility in the next decade.

however, they are going to win b/c they got lucky getting mcdavid. it wasn't the tank but moreso in being lucky in winning the lottery in the right year.

i agree that most high end talent comes at the top of the draft but you still have to a) tank in the right year; and b) win the lottery. that is more luck than anything else.

so while tank team A might win a cup b/c of that strategy, how many teams are going to waste multiple seasons for nothing by tanking?

in any event, it comes down to a good drafting gm. the leafs have had almost a decade of top 10 picks (and high picks in every round) but nothing to show for it. why? as you pointed out, the GMs at the time whiffed.

tanking can quicken a team's rise to the top but let's be honest: if we agree that several teams will be tanking (and have been in the last few years), how many will really have any tangible results to show for it? more teams who tank will still suck than teams who will succeed using that strategy.

I disagree on that note, possibly because I drank the Koolaid, but heres why:

The Canucks drafting prior to Benning was dreadful (plus being a competitive team meant dealing picks at the TDL), that left an age gap in the prospect pool. Benning has acquired players under 25 who are mediocre but are still NHL bodies with room to improve. I equate those acquisitions similarly to middle round picks (for example a 2009 3rd rounder) turning into NHLers. Benning is still picking his first rounders and hoping to find his "elite" talent there, and by the time those players are ready you have the supplemented support "picks" he acquired via trade to create a competitive team.

It will require some luck to really pan out, like all other team's plans, but he has eliminated some risk in turning those picks into actual NHLers
- WhiteLie

I can understand how that would be annoying.

The real problem is what we have been discussing. The salary cap has made it so that rebuilding on the fly doesn't look much like a good idea. You need to hit with at least 3 or 4 great draft picks and THEN make shrewd trades and contract decisions.

In today's NHL climate, it appears the Canucks are not going about things in a way that will lead to a championship.

That is a sad commentary on the state of the league more than anything.
- Aetherial

But what way is that?
Hope to get a generational talent and pray that you build properly around him?

And this one for spring training...


- Scooby_Doo

yes I know.
they are a canadian team....hence the maple leaf.

it's going to be funny if edm wins... and that is a very distinct possibility in the next decade.

however, they are going to win b/c they got lucky getting mcdavid. it wasn't the tank but moreso in being lucky in winning the lottery in the right year.

i agree that most high end talent comes at the top of the draft but you still have to a) tank in the right year; and b) win the lottery. that is more luck than anything else.

so while tank team A might win a cup b/c of that strategy, how many teams are going to waste multiple seasons for nothing by tanking?

in any event, it comes down to a good drafting gm. the leafs have had almost a decade of top 10 picks (and high picks in every round) but nothing to show for it. why? as you pointed out, the GMs at the time whiffed.

tanking can quicken a team's rise to the top but let's be honest: if we agree that several teams will be tanking (and have been in the last few years), how many will really have any tangible results to show for it? more teams who tank will still suck than teams who will succeed using that strategy.
- RealityChecker

Tanking is not a recipe for success...only a recipe for maybe getting higher end talent.
Not a fan of tanking.

Canada Cup & Aetherial are , as well.
- Marwood

Fans from other teams are welcome if they truly just want to discuss hockey. Sadly, 90% of the posters are just trying to stir sh!t up. We should start creating a list...similar to the banned words list from last year