Not at all, I have his charts that prove his shot suppression dropped from a 1st pairing D to below a 3rd pairing... sure looks like a decline to me.
- j.boyd919

How did he make Team Canada? If he's on the decline.

Not at all, I have his charts that prove his shot suppression dropped from a 1st pairing D to below a 3rd pairing... sure looks like a decline to me.
- j.boyd919

Stats give you a result, not the explanation that comes with them.

His shot suppression could have dropped because of how the rest of the team was playing or because they changed coach and the system made the players more vulnerable.

I'm not necessarely saying you're wrong, he might be declining, it would make sense considering he's 31 years old and it's bound to happen at some point, just that there might be other factors to consider. Either way, I'm not a huge chart guy, I'll wait and see but I'm still willing to bet Weber will have a great season with the Habs next year and prove alot of people wrong.

Time will tell who's right.

fixed
- eichiefs9

...but yeah they are okay....

How did he make Team Canada? If he's on the decline.
- gergeswillems

That means nothing, Norris trophy voting? It's a joke, top 20 in hits and blocked shots? Useless... one of the top scoring D in the league 5vs5 and PP? Who cares! It's all about the corsi and the corsi clearly shows Weber is a 7th D at best in the NHL

Geneally, i agree on blocked shots; though I think there can be exceptions.

Problem I understand with hit stats is that they are so poorly kept from rink to rink that they become useless to draw any conclusions from.
- Tumbleweed

Number of hits don't really matter imo.

IT's all about how strong the hits are (which can influence how other player play) and if the hits actually turned the play in favor of your team.

Komisarek was delivering a huge number of hits for Montreal at one point, but he was always falling down and not recovering the puck... so great... you hit alot... but you're taking yourself out of the play and you're not getting the puck....

That means nothing, Norris trophy voting? It's a joke, top 20 in hits and blocked shots? Useless... one of the top scoring D in the league 5vs5 and PP? Who cares! It's all about the corsi and the corsi clearly shows Weber is a 7th D at best in the NHL
- obie

I believe he said Weber was still a good player that was declining... not that he's a 7th D... but I get what you're saying and I sorta agree.

Turris is the comparable trade to me
- Tumbleweed

I can get on board with this.

Same goes with blocks too.
- j.boyd919

I guess probably part of the reason why corsi > Fenwick.

The purpose of a hit is to me is to separate the puck from the player.

If hit stats were tracked on this basis, they could show usefulness.

I guess probably part of the reason why corsi > Fenwick.

The purpose of a hit is to me is to separate the puck from the player.

If hit stats were tracked on this basis, they could show usefulness.


I
- Tumbleweed

Just because Montreal's GM got the best of the trade with Nashville does not necessarily mean that he will be able to pull the rug over Peter C, you just have to wait & see!
- Jrw10

Corsi is useless

Ta mère, vous avez un astie de défenseur sur votre estie de team de fanfreluche qui a juste été chanceux de gagner la loterie sidney Crosby !
- Xizord

Source?

I can get on board with this.
- Feds91Stammer

Get on board with deleting your account

Stats give you a result, not the explanation that comes with them.

His shot suppression could have dropped because of how the rest of the team was playing or because they changed coach and the system made the players more vulnerable.

I'm not necessarely saying you're wrong, he might be declining, it would make sense considering he's 31 years old and it's bound to happen at some point, just that there might be other factors to consider. Either way, I'm not a huge chart guy, I'll wait and see but I'm still willing to bet Weber will have a great season with the Habs next year and prove alot of people wrong.

Time will tell who's right.
- Scabeh

For 12 years I heard about Nicklas Lidstrom declining and he was one of the best defensemen in the league even after he turned 30. He played a key role in 2 Cup winning teams after turning 30 as well as helping Team Sweden win gold in the 2006 Olympics. Weber will never be in Lidstrom's league but I don't see this so called decline in Weber's game. Now that he is in Montreal I see more fans seeing how good this player really is.

I think Corsi and analytics have it's place but I think it can be harmful too. Often it makes good players look bad and bad players look good. Numbers and stats can be used to prove the narrative of any argument.

20 goals and 51 points last year
17th overall in blocked shots
13th in hits

....those stats don't matter anymore?
- obie

The last two just show that he and his teammates never have the (frank)ing puck when he's on the ice.

How did he make Team Canada? If he's on the decline.
- gergeswillems

Because #Size #Grit #FOWequalsgoals

I've never heard someone discribe a 3rd round pick as going "all in"

Because #Size #Grit #FOWequalsgoals
- Feds91Stammer

Oh.

How did he make Team Canada? If he's on the decline.
- gergeswillems

Same way Jay Bouwmeister did, I guess.

The last two just show that he and his teammates never have the (frank)ing puck when he's on the ice.
- BINGO!

What's your point?

For 12 years I heard about Nicklas Lidstrom declining and he was one of the best defensemen in the league even after he turned 30. He played a key role in 2 Cup winning teams as well as helping Team Sweden win gold in the 2006 Olympics. Weber will never be in Lidstrom's league but I don't see this so called decline in Weber's game. Now that he is in Montreal I see more fans seeing how good this player really is.

I think Corsi and analytics have it's place but I think it can be harmful too. Often it makes good players look bad and bad players look good. Numbers and stats can be used to prove the narrative of any argument.
- gergeswillems

I completely agree.

And you're right Weber isn't in Lidstrom's league. If there is a comparison to have for Weber, I believe it could be Pronger (hoping injuries don't stop Weber as well) who was still a dominant player at 35. Yet I'm sure you could find charts of him "declining" as well.

Same way Jay Bouwmeister did, I guess.
- BINGO!

I guess Team Canada really screwed up.

I've never heard someone discribe a 3rd round pick as going "all in"
- Ned_Wrecks

That's Ken Holland at the trade deadline.

Rumour is Montreal is looking to get Yak to bait a return of the Kostitsyn's
- Blue Clam

Acquire a Russian to bring back some folks from Belarus. That makes sense.

I'd trade for Nail because I think he can be a decent player in this league but Reid Boucher put up very similar numbers on the Sarina Sting so that would kind of indicate Yak just wasn't really 1st round material. So I think the most I'd hand over is a 2nd and perhaps a borderline prospect.
- Queenie_5_hole

Reid Boucher also did that 2 years after he was drafted, not before like Nail, so your argument has no merit at all.

For 12 years I heard about Nicklas Lidstrom declining and he was one of the best defensemen in the league even after he turned 30. He played a key role in 2 Cup winning teams after turning 30 as well as helping Team Sweden win gold in the 2006 Olympics. Weber will never be in Lidstrom's league but I don't see this so called decline in Weber's game. Now that he is in Montreal I see more fans seeing how good this player really is.

I think Corsi and analytics have it's place but I think it can be harmful too. Often it makes good players look bad and bad players look good. Numbers and stats can be used to prove the narrative of any argument.
- gergeswillems

Yeah Lidstrom was a Corsi god even in his very last years. He also didn't play the body or block shots very often.