what metric was used in determining this
- YuenglingJagr

More observation than metrics, which should be the primary method of evaluating players, of the games I've seen Karlsson play. No player in the NHL was on the ice for more goals against at 5 on 5 play than Karlsson was. Have to look at all the factors involved there, as certainly Karlsson can't be blamed for every single goal against. Ottawa is not a good defensive team, so that certainly doesn't help him, and you could say that he's being asked to play a certain way, that is not conducive to defensive play, to try and give his team a chance to win. Even with all that said, in my opinion, I can't say he's a good defensive player, or the best defenseman in the NHL, when he's on the ice for the most goals against of any player in the entire league, at 5 on 5 play. He's certainly the best defenseman offensively, and with the puck in the league.

More observation than metrics, which should be the primary method of evaluating players, of the games I've seen Karlsson play. No player in the NHL was on the ice for more goals against at 5 on 5 play than Karlsson was. Have to look at all the factors involved there, as certainly Karlsson can't be blamed for every single goal against. Ottawa is not a good defensive team, so that certainly doesn't help him, and you could say that he's being asked to play a certain way, that is not conducive to defensive play, to try and give his team a chance to win. Even with all that said, in my opinion, I can't say he's a good defensive player, or the best defenseman in the NHL, when he's on the ice for the most goals against of any player in the entire league, at 5 on 5 play. He's certainly the best defenseman offensively, and with the puck in the league.
- MJL

I agree with this. If I'm gonna call a guy the best Dman in the league, then that's a guy I want on the ice in the last minute of the game protecting a one goal lead. That's not Karlsson

Favorite minor league player?

Easily, Mike Maneluk. When I was playing hockey, I was also a left winger whose jersey numberas #15.

Favorite minor league player?

Easily, Mike Maneluk. When I was playing hockey, I was also a left winger whose jersey numberas #15.
- KGBflyers10

For me, it was Don Nachbaur. Guy always worked his tail off when he came up and was a great veteran leader when in the AHL.

I agree with this. If I'm gonna call a guy the best Dman in the league, then that's a guy I want on the ice in the last minute of the game protecting a one goal lead. That's not Karlsson
- BiggE

That seems to always be the debate though. I just find it funny that it seems like historically it has become the defeneman with the most points and when a guy goes and does what Karlsson did, suddenly it is about the best defenseman in all situations? Doughty is good, but I don't think anyone could do what Karlsson did this year. It is so close that I really don't care who wins the award or anything like that...just found it interesting how it all played out

I agree with this. If I'm gonna call a guy the best Dman in the league, then that's a guy I want on the ice in the last minute of the game protecting a one goal lead. That's not Karlsson
- BiggE

Hard to argue that Karlsson isn't the single biggest difference-maker at his position night in and night out, tho, even though he doesn't do everything perfectly.

That seems to always be the debate though. I just find it funny that it seems like historically it has become the defeneman with the most points and when a guy goes and does what Karlsson did, suddenly it is about the best defenseman in all situations? Doughty is good, but I don't think anyone could do what Karlsson did this year. It is so close that I really don't care who wins the award or anything like that...just found it interesting how it all played out
- YuenglingJagr

To me, it's always about who is the best in all situations when it comes to who is the best overall Dman. Some of the greatest I ever saw were:

Bobby Orr
Larry Robinson
Ray Bourque
Denis Potvin
Nick Lidstrom
Scott Niedermayer
Chris Pronger

I don't think there is any active DMan that is as good as any of the above were in their primes when it comes to being an all situations guy.

If you want to talk about purely offensive Dmen who can drive the play with the puck on their stick, well, next to Orr and Coffey, Karlsson is as good as I have ever seen.

Hard to argue that Karlsson isn't the single biggest difference-maker at his position night in and night out, tho, even though he doesn't do everything perfectly.
- Tomahawk

Perhaps he is, I just look at the position differently. Don't get me wrong, I would happily trade any of our current players straight up for him in a heartbeat.

edit: The guy I want out there protecting that last minute lead though would be Hedman

Perhaps he is, I just look at the position differently. Don't get me wrong, I would happily trade any of our current players straight up for him in a heartbeat.

edit: The guy I want out there protecting that last minute lead though would be Hedman
- BiggE

What about the Flyers? Who would you want out on the ice in the situation?

edit: The guy I want out there protecting that last minute lead though would be Hedman
- BiggE

What about the Flyers? Who would you want out on the ice in the situation?
- Tomahawk

I hate to say it but on this roster...

Nick Schultz

More observation than metrics, which should be the primary method of evaluating players, of the games I've seen Karlsson play. No player in the NHL was on the ice for more goals against at 5 on 5 play than Karlsson was. Have to look at all the factors involved there, as certainly Karlsson can't be blamed for every single goal against. Ottawa is not a good defensive team, so that certainly doesn't help him, and you could say that he's being asked to play a certain way, that is not conducive to defensive play, to try and give his team a chance to win. Even with all that said, in my opinion, I can't say he's a good defensive player, or the best defenseman in the NHL, when he's on the ice for the most goals against of any player in the entire league, at 5 on 5 play. He's certainly the best defenseman offensively, and with the puck in the league.
- MJL

That is fine and all, I just have doubts that you saw enough of Doughty and Karlsson to make that type of assessment. I dont think I have either. All the knocks I see on Karlsson are either that he isnt good defensively or he gave up lots of goals at 5 v 5. I think Karlssons hair should count for a lot too...seems disrespectful that no one considers that

Perhaps he is, I just look at the position differently. Don't get me wrong, I would happily trade any of our current players straight up for him in a heartbeat.

edit: The guy I want out there protecting that last minute lead though would be Hedman
- BiggE

Ghost had a higher P/60 than Karlsson and scored more points at ES than Doughty so I wouldnt trade him for either

What about the Flyers? Who would you want out on the ice in the situation?
- Tomahawk

Right now? Ugh, I guess I'd pair MDZ with Gudas.

Ghost had a higher P/60 than Karlsson and scored more points at ES than Doughty so I wouldnt trade him for either
- YuenglingJagr

Fair point, but teams gameplan for guys like Karlsson and Doughty and they don't received sheltered minutes. Teams are going to be much more aware of Ghost this season, and while I think he'll still be very effective, I think you will see a slight drop off in his P/60 and overall numbers.

what metric was used in determining this
- YuenglingJagr

Let's just go ahead and ignore how much better of an offensive player Karlsson is compared to Doughty

Karlsson's defensive shortcoming are overblown by some, but he is not by any means a good defensive player, in fact he slants towards the poor side of defensive play. He's phenomenal offensively and with the puck, but he's not the two way monster that Doughty is, nor was Karlsson better last year overall than Doughty was.
- MJL

I disagree. I feel that Karlsson's offensive contributions compared to Doughty outweigh his defensive shortcomings compared to Doughty. Is Drew Doughty a better "all situations" player? Yes. Would I rather have Doughty out defensively against the best competition of the other team? Yes. I won't argue that. But to me, while Karlsson isn't Scott Stevens or Nick Lidstrom, he is not (in my opinion) a poor defensive player as he once was. To me, in my opinion, he was he best defenseman in the league last year. It is subjective, and that is my view.

I hate to say it but on this roster...

Nick Schultz
- dragonoffrost

Fair point, but teams gameplan for guys like Karlsson and Doughty and they don't received sheltered minutes. Teams are going to be much more aware of Ghost this season, and while I think he'll still be very effective, I think you will see a slight drop off in his P/60 and overall numbers.
- BiggE

dude I was kidding! haha I thought that was obvious

Right now? Ugh, I guess I'd pair MDZ with Gudas.
- BiggE

Saaaaaaaaame.



Some of it depends on where the face-off is being taken.

Saaaaaaaaame.



Some of it depends on where the face-off is being taken.
- PhillySportsGuy

on the ice vs off the ice in a dark alley?

- PhillySportsGuy

one goal lead I want a guy out there who will block any and every shot he can get to.

Gudas could be another.

MDZ has improved in this.

Sorry I don't put AMac, Ghost, Streit or Mandog out there.

dude I was kidding! haha I thought that was obvious
- YuenglingJagr

See, this is what happens when I'm sober!!

See, this is what happens when I'm sober!!

- BiggE

Dude...brought back a bad memory. We went to eat with a couple we are good friends with. Good people. I brought wine and he brought beer. We finally finished the wine and I was in the mood for beer like the whole time. He opens 2 beer and we drink them, but I can just tell he isn't feeling it. So what do I do? We had an agreement that we would each bring a different alcohol to share. Should I just crack open another beer myself? Ended up just throwing in the towel and not drinking anymore. We will be at their place Sunday where I will make up for my mistake

Saaaaaaaaame.



Some of it depends on where the face-off is being taken.
- PhillySportsGuy

Hopefully, in a couple of years, it will be Provorov and Morin shutting guys down at the end of games.