There is a reason why McNeill was literally one of the last first rounders from his draft year to make his NHL debut, and has only played in 1 game. He is not going to suddenly be the answer to any of the Hawks needs....
- Sundevil

I somewhat agree with you. He doesn't look to be the 2C he was projected to be at the draft, but if he can be a bottom 6 center who is good defensively and can win draws, he becomes a very valuable player for the Hawks.

How in the hell does a team that continuously runs out a cone like David Rundblad, yet can't make it work with Daley? Arrogance, stubbornness and dysfunction abound.

The Daley move was a sign of pure dysfunction between the coach and GM. I had no problem subsequently trading Daley if it was true "he couldn't work in Q's system", but for freaking Scuderi? Then retain salary on top of that? Then trading him for a guy buried in the minors. Laughable.
- kwolf68

I have been a fan for a long time and for me it was one of the all-time stupid moves. I recognized that the day it was made and I am not a paid NHL GM -why couldn't our management recognize that too?

I like the idea of hanging on to cap space going into the season. We are almost in the middle of the pack in terms of that.
If this team is in it at the TDL, then cap space is just as important as assets to trade with. If we flame out, then we avoid salary bonus penalties for the following year.
- 67hawks

I'd like to see some kind of metric showing how well/poorly TDL moves have done over the years - both in terms of how well the buyer did in that year's tournament, compared to the cost.

I think the consensus said the Hawks won the TDL championship of 2016 - at a very high cost - and how did that work out come June? Uhhh - May - ok, end of April?

You can't count on a TDL deal or two to get you over the hump, and going into a season saying that you can, I think, is folly.

Put your team together in Octobrr, make a November move if a good one is available (better chance to strengthen your team then, I think, instead of the end of February), and go.

You're right in regards to how the front office has made some questionable moves over the course of the past year. You can't always win in regards to the decisions you make. Fortunately, the 'Hawks have had the offensive depth and the prospect depth to make the decisions that they did.

But gah this is what irritates me more than anything when it comes to arguments about 19's value. All season, he played with a revolving door on his left, and a 37-year-old Marian Hossa (still a very good two-way player, however, but the offensive finishing skills have obviously vastly diminished), and Toews still had a 30+30 campaign. His value doesn't come from being a Kane, Ovechkin, Malkin, Crosby where he puts up 100 point campaigns. He's a player who scores in CLUTCH situations, is arguably the best two-way player in the game today, and has won on so many levels and has an eclectic array of accolades. He makes everyone around him better, and his intangibles and his ability to play down-low and be strong on the puck/win board battles/be the complete player he is are not correlated with numbers, and as such pundits don't often take that into account. Those who TRULY watch hockey and understand it know exactly the kind of player Toews is, and that he absolutely is one of the best players in the game today. Considering where the team was at the time, with how much he has meant to the franchise in regards to turning it around, and being the face of the organization, a contract that would make him the league's highest player was absolutely warranted.
- TommyHawk

CLUTCH is overrated and probably the one thing in sports that is just plain luck. Like the shooters hot hand that researchers has no scientific basis.

I didn't argue toews wasn't a good player. Just that he didn't take a discount (UFA someone would probably of paid him 10.5). I just think he's overrated and not deserving of being the leagues highest paid player. I mean crosby is paid less and has stepped up his defensive game. But his floor is a ppg player and usually higher. Toews has never even been a ppg player. Kopitar scores a lot more. I think toews is over hyped because he's been surrounded by a good team.

Some thoughts:

Kruger centered the second line much of 2011-12. He didn't exactly light it up, but Hossa had his best season as a Hawk (I believe) on his right flank. Kruger has more skill than his 0/4 last year shows. Don't kid yourself. He can skate, win draws, win pucks along the wall and pass. Stranger things could happen than him centering a couple of skill forwards at this point in his career. And I strongly disagree with the "Kruger is just a fourth liner" narrative. On MOST teams, he's a good third line/shutdown center.

Panik may get his shot at 1LW, as could many others. If there ever was a season for a major shakeup of the lines until they find something that works, this is it. I did hear last night that the "Hossa to the third line" narrative is likely just smoke and he will be with Toews. But again, I would not take anything for granted right now.

What they have to do is find some way to get two productive top lines going. That was what killed them last year. ou can't underestimate how important that is to the Hawks' eventual playoff success. My hunch is there will be no sacred cows. They will go with the best guy at each open position. Y

If a kid like Motte came into camp and put a stranglehold on 1LW, then the job will be his. If he played about as well as McNeill (in ALL aspects, defense etc., not just getting a couple more goals), then I think McNeill gets the nod—to make the team, not necessarily as 1LW—eventually based on experience.
- John Jaeckel

JJ, no doubt Kruger can play better and needs to bounce back. Hossa's top linemates that year

Brunette - Kane - Hossa 11.64%
or
Sharp - Kane - Hossa 6.41 %
and
Stalberg - Toews - Hossa 5.57%
and
Sharp - Kruger - Hossa 5.46%
and
Carcillo - Kane - Hossa 4.36%
and
Brunette - Kruger - Hossa 3%
and
Shaw - Kruger - Hossa 2.94%

This was the year Kane spent a lot of time at 2C and the Hawks experimented a lot at that position with....

Sharp
Kruger
Morrison

Hossa and Kruger did get some time together, but Hossa played a lot with Kane, Sharp, and some with Brunette, Toews and Bolland. Kruger got a ton of time with Patrick Sharp.

Kruger has his role on the team now and I don't see much sense in trying to force him into a 2C role. Who will take the D zone draws? A rookie with little experience? AA who struggled at the dot?

Even going back to 2011-2012 with Kruger getting chances with good wingers, he still only managed 26 points. If he slides into 2C this season he gets what? 30 or 35 points? I really like Kruger, since his first game with the Hawks he was so good defensively and chasing down the puck, but he doesn't have 2C or even 3C offensive ability. Even in his best season, he didn't reach 30 points.

Kruger is a great guy to have, but he is what he is. He is not a 2C or 3C on a playoff team. He doesn't have the offense (never has) and the Hawks don't have anyone else to take his defensive role.

Keep in mind that if McNeil does not make it with the Hawks, he must clear waivers to be sent back to Rockford. There's no way he clears waivers at $600,000. Some lesser team would take a flyer on him for sure. So this is McNeil's big chance with the Hawks. He is either all in or all gone.

I can see Schmaltz dangling with Kane at some point. two great puck handlers with tremendous skill.

Motte' ability to finish is a blessing and Hartman will have to bang his way onto the team.

Hinostroza and Kero both have gotten their feet wet in the NHL. Let's see if they use that to their advantage at camp.

It going to very very competitive. Nothing given, everything earned.
- Omahawk

He is the next former #1 pick since Kane in 2007 to be shown the door:

2008: Beach gone
2009: Olsen gone
2010: Hayes gone
2011: Danualt and McNeil gone and soon to be?
2012: TT gone
2013: Hartmann ??
2014: Smaltz ??

since the 2007 draft through 2015: 68 picks only TT, saad, shaw kruger, danault, pirri, smith cracked the NHL roster and only kruger remains...

1 out of their last 68 picks over the last 8 years (2016 excluded) is still with the team...and for those above players now gone what roster player did they get in return?? one player = anisimov; the rest deadline trades or cap releif...

with that kinda development failure...it will catch up with this team

I think people take for granted how good those Hawks teams were. Rolling 4 lines is a luxury for a coach. A lot of people who say this now are the same people complaining about seeing Mash, Tootoo, Rasmussen, and friends on the ice.
- Antz96

I would like to see "maybe" players play more in the regular season. Guys like Runblad and Mash Taters are "never gonna be's". No matter what, Q has to roll 4 lines and maybe the "maybe's" develop a bit.

Can't believe some are still trying to force the "Hossa on the third line narrative" so some guy, the best of whom had 25 goals in Rockford last year, can take his place in the Top 6.

You have to admire the persistence, if not the "logic."

Again, it would be great if some 21 year old stepped up and showed he is a better two-way player than a first ballot hall of famer, admittedly coming off a bad year.

But . . . again . . . Hossa's LINE sucked last year, as did his 28 year old center, because they were missing a bona fide top 6 LW. And they still are. So let's fill that job with a Clearasil Kid, AND let's move Hossa down, and fill his job with one, too!

Someone please explain to me how this makes any sense whatsoever. Please. My brain is starting to hurt.
- John Jaeckel

Personally JJ, I am not opposed to Hossa playing 3rd line. Has nothing to do with him not being a first line player. But we take 6 returning veteran players with some chemistry and pair them up to spread the depth as much as we can. Marian Hossa is a first line player still, without question. But spreading it out makes us a bit stronger up and down the lineup.

Pairing
88-19
72-15
81-16
spreads out your known talent and allows you to shuttle in the different plugs. We have seen it in the past and throughout his career, that anyone who plays with Kane can produce. That's why he is so great. You plug a Panik in with the two russians and you have a nice line with size to come back with. Take a guy like Shmaltz who can play with the puck and put him with two workhorses to lead by example on how to play night in and night out. It's not that crazy of a thought to spread the talent and Hossa playing on the third line.

I somewhat agree with you. He doesn't look to be the 2C he was projected to be at the draft, but if he can be a bottom 6 center who is good defensively and can win draws, he becomes a very valuable player for the Hawks.
- Antz96

The more I think about this "see what we have" "not Motte and Schmaltz" I see it as a message being sent, it's make it or break it time for guys like McNeill and Hartman. Should be an interesting camp.

I have been a fan for a long time and for me it was one of the all-time stupid moves. I recognized that the day it was made and I am not a paid NHL GM -why couldn't our management recognize that too?
- 67hawks

I think the move was to open cap space for the trade deadline and Q did not like Daley. I for one thought he was playing better when he was traded. If Scudari retires the Hawks get 1.25 Mil in space also I think. Q has to earn his pay this year and I like that the kids will get a chance.

#Stockuponalcohol



It might be needed this season...
- z1990z

Oh so much this!!!

I somewhat agree with you. He doesn't look to be the 2C he was projected to be at the draft, but if he can be a bottom 6 center who is good defensively and can win draws, he becomes a very valuable player for the Hawks.
- Antz96

For years when the Red Wings were really good they had their draft picks in Grand Rapids fo a long time learning both the system and how to become a pro. When they were ready they graduated or Holland traded them for somebody who could fill a hole.

The time McNeill spent in Rockford doesn't hurt him. The AHL is a tough league, not for the faint of heart. At 23 he should now be physically mature and wise to playing against men. If he has what it takes to play at the NHL level, he will contribute somewhere on the roster at basically minimum wage. If not, he becomes another Jeremy Morin or Kyle Beach.

I think he will do just fine as a winger playing the 4th line and I hope it is ahead of Tootoo most nights.

He is the next former #1 pick since Kane in 2007 to be shown the door:

2008: Beach gone
2009: Olsen gone
2010: Hayes gone
2011: Danualt and McNeil gone and soon to be?
2012: TT gone
2013: Hartmann ??
2014: Smaltz ??

since the 2007 draft through 2015: 68 picks only TT, saad, shaw kruger, danault, pirri, smith cracked the NHL roster and only kruger remains...

1 out of their last 68 picks over the last 8 years (2016 excluded) is still with the team...and for those above players now gone what roster player did they get in return?? one player = anisimov; the rest deadline trades or cap releif...

with that kinda development failure...it will catch up with this team
- bogiedoc

That's the price you pay for being tops in the league 3 out of 6 years. The Hawks have had some quality guys come through and be developed, only to be shipped out for a "win now" kind of guy or a cap crunch. The hard cap is much more of a problem than player development.

He is the next former #1 pick since Kane in 2007 to be shown the door:

2008: Beach gone
2009: Olsen gone
2010: Hayes gone
2011: Danualt and McNeil gone and soon to be?
2012: TT gone
2013: Hartmann ??
2014: Smaltz ??

since the 2007 draft through 2015: 68 picks only TT, saad, shaw kruger, danault, pirri, smith cracked the NHL roster and only kruger remains...

1 out of their last 68 picks over the last 8 years (2016 excluded) is still with the team...and for those above players now gone what roster player did they get in return?? one player = anisimov; the rest deadline trades or cap releif...

with that kinda development failure...it will catch up with this team
- bogiedoc

Just wow.....

I disagree. I can't say as to why he was passed over in the draft, but under his grittiness he has NHL level skill. He might not be the greatest passer, but he could skate and had surprisingly good mitts.



This is irrelevant. I'm sure I don't need to list all the great NHL players that went in the later rounds of the draft, or the 1st round busts. On the ice your draft pick doesn't matter. What I'm saying is they are a similar type player, and it would be hard to project Hartman to match the production of Shaw.
- Antz96

I agree. Daley and Rundblad were clearly Bowman guys. Q has a system and has a really hard time adapting even a little for some more offensive d-men. That's why Leddy got the bench treatment while he was here. Same with Gustafsson last year. I'm hoping Q had a little bit of a wake up call after the first round exit last year. Campbell isn't a prototypical Q guy either, and he's going to be eating top 4 minutes.

>McNeil made his NHL debut this past season vs the Canes
>Flew in for one game to join the Hawks in Carolina
>Team-wise, Hawks were on fumes and some players were battling flu-like symptoms
>Hawks effort was non-existent and Mr. McNeil fit right in
>As in no-impact at all, no energy, made zero difference on the ice
>Can't recently recall a Hawk making his NHL debut and doing nothing on every shift
>Hartman at least leveled a Devil in his first game
>Am surprised the Hawks resigned McNeil -- would be delighted to be wrong about what he can do at the NHL level
- SnapitUpstairs

I think they resigned McNeill because so far they couldn't trade him and it's a modest expense.
He will make about $100,000 more if in the AHL but McNeill had little choice and making the extra dough in Rockford is good for him and an expense Rocky seemingly doesn't mind. If McNeill makes the roster he's near the minimum.

So far his performance and the Hawks expectations haven't lined up.

I agree. Daley and Rundblad were clearly Bowman guys. Q has a system and has a really hard time adapting even a little for some more offensive d-men. That's why Leddy got the bench treatment while he was here. Same with Gustafsson last year. I'm hoping Q had a little bit of a wake up call after the first round exit last year. Campbell isn't a prototypical Q guy either, and he's going to be eating top 4 minutes.
- JRoenick97

Leddy was wasn't used more and in the playoffs because at the time Oduya was the better dman in Q's eyes...and he couldn't crack top 4.

Not the same with others ....They didn't play because quite a few were better.
In the case of Daley he couldn't beat out rookies...

EK or other people who have seen McNeill the past several years in Rockford, what do you think of MM's footspeed? I really don't know that he can skate at the NHL level. Does he really pencil in as a competent 3C or 4C? All along, I have been hoping that the team can utilize AA on 1LW until a better match is found for that opening.

I am encouraged to hear that Hartman is on the short list for having a shot. IMO, nothing wrong with having 1-2 rooks in the lineup and not bad to give multiple rooks a look during the regular season.

I disagree. I can't say as to why he was passed over in the draft, but under his grittiness he has NHL level skill. He might not be the greatest passer, but he could skate and had surprisingly good mitts.



This is irrelevant. I'm sure I don't need to list all the great NHL players that went in the later rounds of the draft, or the 1st round busts. On the ice your draft pick doesn't matter. What I'm saying is they are a similar type player, and it would be hard to project Hartman to match the production of Shaw.
- Antz96

It is 100% relevant.

So you are arguing that Shaw had NHL level skill that nobody saw in which he got passed over in the draft once and a few more rounds in the next draft, but it busted out down the line?

Who says that Hartman cant show flashes of NHL skill down the line as well? Its naive to assume that Shaw could develop down the line into a real solid NHLer but Hartman can only regress from his 1st round pick status

How about a rebranding of this particular blog post.

Title: "Is This As Good As It's Gonna Get?"

The picture can be if Jack Nicholson from the movie.


Too much hand wringing over Hudler, Vesey and such over the past few weeks.

The horses are gonna be rested and looks like keeping the cap space until TDL will be a good move, IMO
- furso27

Agreed but....... the problem with it is.... that they might be out of the playoff picture by the TD. If the kids perform, Toews comes out strong, Crawford is elite, Keith and Seabs are teamed up again, Kane and Panarin carry the offense, and Campbell's addition works out, then fine, they'll be in the playoff picture. But if any or all of these don't work out, or, a significant injury happens, then they'll have the problem. Not even to mention AGAIN..... who is the 1LW.

I'd like to see some kind of metric showing how well/poorly TDL moves have done over the years - both in terms of how well the buyer did in that year's tournament, compared to the cost.

I think the consensus said the Hawks won the TDL championship of 2016 - at a very high cost - and how did that work out come June? Uhhh - May - ok, end of April?

You can't count on a TDL deal or two to get you over the hump, and going into a season saying that you can, I think, is folly.

Put your team together in Octobrr, make a November move if a good one is available (better chance to strengthen your team then, I think, instead of the end of February), and go.
- StLBravesFan

Hard to quantify like with Vermette and he goes on to the win the Cup.
But I know for certain seldom is a 1st line player or 1st pairing dman acquired at the TDL and then his team goes on to win the Cup.

Last time was Billy Guerin in 2009, he played with Crosby and won the Cup.

Personally JJ, I am not opposed to Hossa playing 3rd line. Has nothing to do with him not being a first line player. But we take 6 returning veteran players with some chemistry and pair them up to spread the depth as much as we can. Marian Hossa is a first line player still, without question. But spreading it out makes us a bit stronger up and down the lineup.

Pairing
88-19
72-15
81-16
spreads out your known talent and allows you to shuttle in the different plugs. We have seen it in the past and throughout his career, that anyone who plays with Kane can produce. That's why he is so great. You plug a Panik in with the two russians and you have a nice line with size to come back with. Take a guy like Shmaltz who can play with the puck and put him with two workhorses to lead by example on how to play night in and night out. It's not that crazy of a thought to spread the talent and Hossa playing on the third line.
- nickmo2699

Yep you are right ,it not rocket science .You spread out your Great player ,and work in the young ones .
I have said this all summer that the HAWKS and many top teams just don't have the cash , and will have to bite the bullet and play some of their young kids . Rasmussen and Lundberg are not raw rookies . Hartman McNeil Carrick are all ready for a good long look .Schmaltz and Motte are skilled players who could make a impact ,maybe not right now but in the near future . The HAWKS will take another kick at the can with Crow and a revitalized D core and some new and inexperienced kids up front . Then next summer Crow will most likely be the odd man out ,and he and maybe a prospect will be moved for a Hopefully 1st round pick in the hometown draft
It may be time for coach Q to start to earn his hefty paycheck and run a few more practices ,and become a little more of a teaching coach. If not you can't fire the whole team but the coach could be shown the door .

That's the price you pay for being tops in the league 3 out of 6 years. The Hawks have had some quality guys come through and be developed, only to be shipped out for a "win now" kind of guy or a cap crunch. The hard cap is much more of a problem than player development.
- JRoenick97

no question...its easy to just look at this in isolation and
like i do

but the context of the last 6 years makes it somewhat palatable; about 1 draft pick per year became a contributor; maybe thats what is the norm with most teams; whats tough is saad, TT, shaw, danault all 25 or under...tough to young talent and production like that for essentially nothing but cap savings

Brian Sandalow ‏@BrianSandalow 19s19 seconds ago
Crosby named captain of Team Canada, Toews and Shea Weber alternates.

I'd like to see some kind of metric showing how well/poorly TDL moves have done over the years - both in terms of how well the buyer did in that year's tournament, compared to the cost.

I think the consensus said the Hawks won the TDL championship of 2016 - at a very high cost - and how did that work out come June? Uhhh - May - ok, end of April?

You can't count on a TDL deal or two to get you over the hump, and going into a season saying that you can, I think, is folly.

Put your team together in Octobrr, make a November move if a good one is available (better chance to strengthen your team then, I think, instead of the end of February), and go.
- StLBravesFan

Yes, all of this.

As well as the Blackhawks did acquiring useful players during the season / TDL last year, they didn't get the 4th defenseman that they really needed. I wonder if TT+ to Vancouver for Hamhuis was even a possibility, that might have been enough to get past the Blues and then anything could have happened. We'll never know.

But needing to get Ladd, Weise, Fleischmann AND a defenseman was too much to do.

What will the Blackhawks need this year? Probably a 1LW. Barring injuries, the D, G, and forward depth seem set. Maybe another center depending on how AA does at the dot this year. That seems way more doable than needing to add four players like last year.

And I agree that November is probably the better time to do it versus at the TDL when it is more of a sellers market.