JJ, I'm afraid your brain will continue to hurt- there is no explaining stupid.
- powerenforcer

LOL

The absolutely highest upside for McNeill after his play in junior was that a team would be a chance to get a gritty Ryan Getzlaf type centrreman.
This is what we all do when we watch and scout and project junior players eventual upside.
The trouble is (whether scouts want to admit it or not) each draft class is strong average or weak when these youngsters finally get finished taking the tools they REALLY have, improving them and reaching their high water marks in relation to the REAL WORLD NHL quality of play.
It is easy to see how the early chosen players can show success quite early, yet even they can stagger and fail.
I can't impress upon you the difference of being a hot shot junior and a really high evolved NHLer.
Just because a kid gets selected mid round insures n o t h i n g.

If you look at McNeill's 2011 draft class, and the top picks, most have failed to be impact players.That's not to say, that some aren't progressing nicely, but in general expectations on theme have probably been realistically adjust by their teams, while other from later selections have created new true top players- it is not easy to look at an 18 yr. and now what you may be getting, just that you MIGHT...
I don't go back and change these as often as I should but if you look at it you see there is much more desired out of the guys who were picked early.

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/redraft/2011/

The hawks knew that in junior MCNeill was a well respected player who you trusted on the ice at the ned of games your team was ahed in.
They knew he wasn't a EAST-WEST dangler with the puck and a guy who when he got going North=South was a load to contend with.
They also flung him to wing pretty fast, probably not wanted to complicated his progression and making him have to learn and play the more difficult centre position.
McNeill in on left wing so that his right handed shot puts his stick closer to the net.
I still contend that a major strength of his game is as an anchor player who can get in front and not get moved.
And now that Shawzie is gone, he actually could get an audition there.

It's not so much the game changed since he was selected as he hasn't had more than that one good season as a guy having a large role and having production numbers that back up a NHL projection.

It happens. They just aren't what the scouts thought they were -until they figure it out and ARE.

The Hawks extended his qualifying offer to give him a chance to make this roster.His negotiation team also saw the benefit in smaller money better shot at the NHL for this audition. If he shows in preseason, he stays.
Otherwise they find him a new tryout, or demote him and he gets scooped up by another NHL club if there is interest. This is simply the stark reality of the draft development and the high level of skill in the league. When Kevin Hayes was tweeting FREE JERMEMY MORIN....it was about giving a guy a chance, and sometimes it isn't all that easy IF they guy is a good soldier inside the farm AND simply isn't good enough. So with McNeill, we find out quickly at the juncture.


I am only trying add the JJ idea of McNeill time be now.

Friedman Twitter
ARIZ/FLA working on a deal that will send David Bolland and Lawson Crouse to the Coyotes for a second and third pick...

JJ - you nailed it in this thread with the keyword "chemistry ". Toews and Hossa have it together from years of experience playing side by side knowing each other's tendencies. Panerin and Kane found it almost immediately and AA was smart enough to let it cultivate.

So ultimately one the top 6, we need one guy to find that special blend or quality to play with Toews or Hossa. Management knows that hence the dogged pursuit of Vesey,

Also when it comes "chemistry" I am suddenly a huge fan of the Tootoo signing. If Keith and Seabrook wanted him, Wow. So much so they were willing to go to the boss and ask for him. Wow. Says a lot about him. Add to that, his presence should take pressure off Hartman to be the next Shaw. Hartman has to play to his strengths and be himself. Tootoo has be typical Tootoo and the two of them together might just bring us a combo that fills the Shaw void.

Friedman Twitter
ARIZ/FLA working on a deal that will send David Bolland and Lawson Crouse to the Coyotes for a second and third pick...
- Marlowe

I am not surprised because Crouse was just what I was talking about above:
this big tough kid, who gets drafted early and when in the bigger pond , look slike he is much further way from being close to the junior player...but Coyotes are a perfect place to on the job train to succeed.

More of a pens fan but live in Chicago. You had a 4d on your roster better than anyone available at the tdl. You just never figured out how to utilize Daley. I blame that on the coaches because the talent was there.
- sditulli

Enjoy him.

and let's know after an entire year if you STILL enjoy him.


and then come back and lecture "us" on what to do."You" weren't the architect of the Pen's win, your GM made terrific shred moves and they actually worked.

His lecture might get some interest here, but ..................not yours.

I am not surprised because Crouse was just what I was talking about above:
this big tough kid, who gets drafted early and when in the bigger pond , look slike he is much further way from being close to the junior player...but Coyotes are a perfect place to on the job train to succeed.
- wiz1901

If story true, it probably is Arizona saying we will eat your crappy Bolland contract for 3 years but you guys in Florida are going to give us Lawson Crouse as the incentive to do that.

Friedman Twitter
ARIZ/FLA working on a deal that will send David Bolland and Lawson Crouse to the Coyotes for a second and third pick...
- Marlowe

More abuse of the cap by the Arizona franchise, but will Bettman ever say anything about it?

More abuse of the cap by the Arizona franchise, but will Bettman ever say anything about it?
- powerenforcer

Bettman is on LTIR with concussion symptoms after taking a verbal pounding by Senator Richard Blumenthal.

The thing with McNeil is that he has size -something this team needs more of. It would be nice to see him succeed.

Kruger to the second line is complete non-sense. Utter, utter non-sense. With his lack of an offensive game, coupled with the fact that he doesn't create space, nor play down-low, he is more out of place than if Crawford were to skate with Keith on a pairing. Kruger is an extremely vital piece to the fourth line, and that's where his skills are best utilized, and where he is most comfortable. The 'Hawks are considerably worse with him anywhere in the top-six. Besides, even if you move AA up to line one with 19 and 81, and slide Kruger up to 2C, who centers the 3rd and 4th lines? That would be incredibly weak depth up the middle, which is what the 'Hawks have been trying to shore for quite some time now.

The following line combo is what I would want to see. I don't think the 'Hawks give Motte a chance yet. He'll have the right to compete for a spot with the club, but I think Q will want him to get seasoning in Rockford first. No need to rush him.

And I may be in the minority, but I want Panik to get a legitimate shot on the first line. His combination of size, speed, and willingness to go to the boards is something that I think would be very beneficial to take physical pressure off of Toews. He showed some sparks even though he didn't have too much ice time, but I want to see what he can do given 16-18 minutes a night on the first line for at least 2-3 weeks before I move him down. He deserves the first crack at the top line.

Panik - Toews - Hossa
Panarin - AA - Kane
McNeill - Schmaltz - Hartman
Desjardins - Kruger - Tootoo
Moose

Keith - Seabrook
Hammer - Campbell
TvR - Kempny
Goose/Svedberg

Craw
Darling
- TommyHawk

I like the idea of hanging on to cap space going into the season. We are almost in the middle of the pack in terms of that.
If this team is in it at the TDL, then cap space is just as important as assets to trade with. If we flame out, then we avoid salary bonus penalties for the following year.

Kempny is 5 or 6 D...2,4,7 and 51 are top four. Plus, the only way I see 16 as 2C, is if AA is 1LW, so I think most of the young guys will be bottom 6. Although, I did like the suggestion that they put no more than 1 rookie per line, and moving Kruger up to 2C would leave 3 or 4 young guys in the bottom 6.
- tvetter

Yes - I did mean 5D for Kempny.

I like the idea of hanging on to cap space going into the season. We are almost in the middle of the pack in terms of that.
If this team is in it at the TDL, then cap space is just as important as assets to trade with. If we flame out, then we avoid salary bonus penalties for the following year.
- 67hawks

Totally agree. In years past, the Hawks have not had much cap space at the TDL so it would be nice this year to have some room to get a more substantial player rather than a one year rental.

Enjoy him.

and let's know after an entire year if you STILL enjoy him.
- wiz1901

They did, to the tune of a Cup.

and then come back and lecture "us" on what to do."You" weren't the architect of the Pen's win, your GM made terrific shred moves and they actually worked.

His lecture might get some interest here, but ..................not yours.
- wiz1901

No need to rip the guy's head off for being right, and you know what he meant. For whatever Daley didn't work out here, but you can't say he didn't look great playing for the Pens.

Good blog, JJ.

I'm pretty pumped to see these guys get a shot and it sounds like they'll be getting longer looks this time around

They did, to the tune of a Cup.




No need to rip the guy's head off for being right, and you know what he meant. For whatever Daley didn't work out here, but you can't say he didn't look great playing for the Pens.
- Antz96

Agreed. The guy wasn't insulting us, just pointing out what happened. Daley's failure here was likely on Q as he just didn't fit the way Q's defensive system works. Sullivan took him and used him to his strengths.

As far as JJ's blog, I think I said the exact same thing in the thread yesterday. Hawks will wait it out and see what the young guys can do. Done for the offseason.

ROLL 4 LINES. I don't friggin care how Mr. Hall of fame does it. Just do it. The growing pains in the regular season will pay off in the playoffs when he can then shorten the bench and his guys might have something left.

How about a rebranding of this particular blog post.

Title: "Is This As Good As It's Gonna Get?"

The picture can be if Jack Nicholson from the movie.


Too much hand wringing over Hudler, Vesey and such over the past few weeks.

The horses are gonna be rested and looks like keeping the cap space until TDL will be a good move, IMO

Agreed. The guy wasn't insulting us, just pointing out what happened. Daley's failure here was likely on Q as he just didn't fit the way Q's defensive system works. Sullivan took him and used him to his strengths.

As far as JJ's blog, I think I said the exact same thing in the thread yesterday. Hawks will wait it out and see what the young guys can do. Done for the offseason.
- JRoenick97

How in the hell does a team that continuously runs out a cone like David Rundblad, yet can't make it work with Daley? Arrogance, stubbornness and dysfunction abound.

The Daley move was a sign of pure dysfunction between the coach and GM. I had no problem subsequently trading Daley if it was true "he couldn't work in Q's system", but for freaking Scuderi? Then retain salary on top of that? Then trading him for a guy buried in the minors. Laughable.

The one issue I have with the "Andrew Shaw lite" narrative on Hartman is that Hartman has had way more flashes of talent on the younger level than Shaw ever showed, even on the international stage

Shaw was a diamond in the rough, but his story was more about determination than untapped skill potential.
- hawkeytalkman

I disagree. I can't say as to why he was passed over in the draft, but under his grittiness he has NHL level skill. He might not be the greatest passer, but he could skate and had surprisingly good mitts.

Lets not forget Shaw got passed over one draft and was a late pick the following year.
- hawkeytalkman

This is irrelevant. I'm sure I don't need to list all the great NHL players that went in the later rounds of the draft, or the 1st round busts. On the ice your draft pick doesn't matter. What I'm saying is they are a similar type player, and it would be hard to project Hartman to match the production of Shaw.

Can't believe some are still trying to force the "Hossa on the third line narrative" so some guy, the best of whom had 25 goals in Rockford last year, can take his place in the Top 6.

You have to admire the persistence, if not the "logic."

Again, it would be great if some 21 year old stepped up and showed he is a better two-way player than a first ballot hall of famer, admittedly coming off a bad year.

But . . . again . . . Hossa's LINE sucked last year, as did his 28 year old center, because they were missing a bona fide top 6 LW. And they still are. So let's fill that job with a Clearasil Kid, AND let's move Hossa down, and fill his job with one, too!

Someone please explain to me how this makes any sense whatsoever. Please. My brain is starting to hurt.
- John Jaeckel

I'm assuming that because of the roster deficits that the fans are trying to spread out the offensive punch on each line. Makes some sense, but Hossa belongs on the first line with Toews.

ROLL 4 LINES. I don't friggin care how Mr. Hall of fame does it. Just do it. The growing pains in the regular season will pay off in the playoffs when he can then shorten the bench and his guys might have something left.
- 6628

This. Good narrative 66. We saw how Pittsburgh rolled 4 lines in the playoffs recently and how the Hawks did it in 2010/2013/2015. It is key.

The thing with McNeil is that he has size -something this team needs more of. It would be nice to see him succeed.
- 67hawks

There is a reason why McNeill was literally one of the last first rounders from his draft year to make his NHL debut, and has only played in 1 game. He is not going to suddenly be the answer to any of the Hawks needs....

This. Good narrative 66. We saw how Pittsburgh rolled 4 lines in the playoffs recently and how the Hawks did it in 2010/2013/2015. It is key.
- 93Joe

I think people take for granted how good those Hawks teams were. Rolling 4 lines is a luxury for a coach. A lot of people who say this now are the same people complaining about seeing Mash, Tootoo, Rasmussen, and friends on the ice.