Good scoop JJ, from earlier in the thread. The a Hawks are now fully on the "we are going to play the kids" narrative. Hearing a lot of talk of "playing in the top 9".
We already know the leading candidates, Schmaltz, Motte, Hinostroza, Hartman.

Also, expect to hear about having $2.4 million in cap space to start the season and moving forward as if it's their insurance plan.

This is not earthshattering but I would not expect a trade between now and camp.

I have a huge problem with that trade. The league owned AZ team is a dump for important franchises the NHL wants to succeed. Panthers a young up and coming team got huge cap relief by dumping Bolland in the waste land. It's a complete farce. Those kind of trades should not be occurring with AZ. No other major sports league would allow or condone such things let alone actively participate in.
- bhawks2241

If you are going to allow that BS to go on, at least rescind the recapture BS the league pinned on a few, after of course approving the contracts prior.

Pronger, Datsyuk, Bolland, it really is shameful.

If you are going to allow that BS to go on, at least rescind the recapture BS the league pinned on a few, after of course approving the contracts prior.

Pronger, Datsyuk, Bolland, it really is shameful.
- vabeachbear

It's all on AZ too. CBJ has Clarkson and TOR has Horton's salary. One guy like that, fine but eating 3 contracts in AZ? Seems like there is something strange there. But hey, if teams can utilize it then why not? Hopefully the league re-analyzes a good deal of these issues.

Idk. I completely understand what you are saying but Teams did not value his leadership and professionalism for the 5.5 mil when we moved him last summer and that was a two years younger Sharp. I don't see him getting 5 mil.

If he does get 5 mil next offseason then Bowman really really really franked that trade. If Sharp gets anything north of $4 mil on his next contract that would to me indicate Bowman absolutely failed to properly move him in '15.
- bhawks2241

Its not a question of if Stan franked that trade up...he did big time...here Stan I'll give you my crap and take three players off your hands that can help you win a Cup. You can still hear Nill laughing in Dallas.

As Darth points out Sharp could still command a decent deal next season. The question is does he want to come home and play for less here. Sharpie was just in town to see Pearl Jam at Wrigley...so who knows. Could soften the blow when/if they lose Panarin at the end of the season. From a marketing standpoint alone you know McD would love to have Sharp back in the fold. And to put him possibly on the third line with Hossa and Kruger - would be a heck of a third line.

Meanwhile we'll hope that "The Kids Can Play"...

If you are going to allow that BS to go on, at least rescind the recapture BS the league pinned on a few, after of course approving the contracts prior.

Pronger, Datsyuk, Bolland, it really is shameful.
- vabeachbear

why the nhl will continue to be a "semi-pro" league...this league wants to expand with bush league teams like Az and Edm around...

bettman and his sheep the owners won't be happy until every team finishes 41-41 and we can just have a puck flip playoff system.

Its not a question of if Stan franked that trade up...he did big time...here Stan I'll give you my crap and take three players off your hands that can help you win a Cup. You can still hear Nill laughing in Dallas.

As Darth points out Sharp could still command a decent deal next season. The question is does he want to come home and play for less here. Sharpie was just in town to see Pearl Jam at Wrigley...so who knows. Could soften the blow when/if they lose Panarin at the end of the season. From a marketing standpoint alone you know McD would love to have Sharp back in the fold. And to put him possibly on the third line with Hossa and Kruger - would be a heck of a third line.

Meanwhile we'll hope that "The Kids Can Play"...
- DK002

They aren't losing Panarin. If he has anything even close to last year, he will be going nowhere, will be resigned and will enter the "changing core".

Others will go first.

TVR is a much better player as a 5-6 than most give him credit for and he will play both sides if Q asks him to. And $825K for 2 years is bargain basement value for an NHL Dman which they need to offset some of the big salaries.

If and when Pokka, Gustafsson and Kepny prove to be better then they can look at moving him in return if something reasonably good up front is made available to them.
- RickJ

I hope if they do trade TVR, they wait until the deadline. This Hawks team is a playoff team as constructed. They may not finish first in the West, but last season they were the third best team in the conference, and this year's team will be better on D, and probably about the same on offense at the forward level. I think they will score more than last year because they should have better production from the D. If we can get to the deadline with $2M+ in cap space, Kempny's playing up to expectations, and Gus, Sved or Pokke are looking NHL ready, then they make the move.

One caveat...if TVR gets a Drouin or Tatar, Stan should pull the trigger now. Maybe he can use the Red Wings cap situation against them...according to generalfanager, they are currently almost $5M over the cap even without Datsyuk!

If you are going to allow that BS to go on, at least rescind the recapture BS the league pinned on a few, after of course approving the contracts prior.

Pronger, Datsyuk, Bolland, it really is shameful.
- vabeachbear

Totally agree, for a league that promotes that every team can be competitive because of the salery cap this is inexcusable. Yes Arizona gets some young assets but should they not be usingthe money to improve as well. This recapture penalty has to be receded i hope that it's being discussed. This also show SB was again taken advantage of that Florida dumps a 3 year5.5 contract with only given up a young prospect who has never played in the NHL and SB gave away a solid defence of forward with offence potential who has won a cup to get rid of 4 million one year contract. I know he is not well liked here n had a bad year but by the end of the year I predict we are going to regret getting rid of T T

You are singing to the choir on this one...
Not saying TVR can't be dealt but he is better than many think.

He was thrown into the fire without any AHL seasoning and has for the most part handled the load. I think he would play as #4 on quite a few teams and right now is better than Kempney or others until proven otherwise.

My tune could change by Thanksgiving but for now I would be more comfortable with TVR than Kempney or some of the youngsters.
- Al

Today,

TVR>>> Svedberg, Pokka, Gustafsson, Forsling, and that by a comfortable margin. Because of smarts and experience.

Again, I won't just assume how good Kemny is (or isn't) without seeing him. But this we know: he has a fair amount of pro experience (albeit Euro), he is, by all accounts, probably a better skater than TVR, and also has a big shot like TVR. So all taken together, plus the interest of several teams in him, it is probably safe to assume he is at least TVR's equal at this point, and with some extended NHL/smaller sheet experience, will be better due to what is reported at least to be superior athleticism. But hard to say until he plays for a while in the NHL.

Danault drove possession at a very high rate and was LOCKED IN at 3C during the Hawks' best stretch of hockey in 15/16. I can't believe how much hype Kruger is getting on this board. Career high less than 30 points and got under the skin of serial losers Perry+Getzlaf in one series. How quickly we forget what Bolland and Madden did for half the price....Kruger is a 4C and should be making $1.5 mil. Kruger at 2C is the recipe for a lottery pick in Chicago next summer. Shaw > Kruger. Danault is also > Kruger bc he is 1/3 the price. Until he proves otherwise, Marcus is a glorified 4C, no matter how much the Hawks love him.
- EnzoD

Fixed it for ya, Enzo.

Luv ya, pal, and I'll play this game.

Really zero NHL teams match up their 4C against a Ryan Getzlaf or a Jeff Carter or a Tyler Johnson. They don't. That is the job of a 3C/shutdown center, which is really what Marcus Kruger is. The Hawks have had the luxury of 2 "third lines" a couple of the previous seasons, hence the Kruger as 4C narrative.

Sami Pahlsson was a shutdown 3C. No one ever argues that. Exact same type of player Kruger is pretty much. Vernon Fiddler, Adam Burish, Nate Thompson—those are 4th line centers. Tough to play against, but not really brilliant at anything.

Funny you say Shaw is better than Kruger. I guess by your rationale, Shaw is just a 4th line winger. We know that's not really true. But that's where he played a lot of the last 2 years.

Oh, Shaw played (by default) and kind of underwjelmed as 1LW last year. Same can be said of Kruger as 2C in 2011-12, when the Hawks didn't finish in the lottery but as the third seed in the West.

As a center, Shaw is not better than Kruger. He is not his equal as a center.

A center's primary job is to win face-offs, defend the opponent's center over 200 feet of ice (both things Kruger is beer than Shaw at, and to create offensive opportunities for others. And I would argue with the same wingers, those two would be about equal at that, maybe Kruger even a bit better because his passing is underrated.

So Enzo, you're right, neither you nor I get to make personnel decisions based upon which players we like or dislike, but the Chicago Blackhawks, who have numerous former players and two Hall of Fame coaches on their payroll, do. They think Kruger is worth $3 million a season.

And here's something you need to understand: Scotty Bowman (especially) loves Kruger. So address your criticisms to him. Mmmmm-kay?

Yes that was me and I still believe Maroon would be a good fit in Chicago.
- DarthKane

I could go there.

Not sure i agree on Danault, but I'm with you on Kruger being overrated by many fans here.

Kruger at 2C is one of the worst ideas I've seen thrown around in quite some time. It makes ZERO sense. He's not a top 6 player. And why on earth after losing TT and Shaw would we take AA out of the center position as well, and move him to LW? Just to put the offensively inept Kruger(who should be commanding a shutdown bottom 6 role) at 2C on a scoring line with Kane and Panarin?
- SimpleJack

Yep, Q was an idiot when he had him there in 11-12.

And Hinostroza replacing Hossa is brilliance. I mean, hell, let's play 5 rookies. Cup window, schmindow!!

And the Hawks weren't bad at all 5-on-5 last year . . . .

And there's no hole at 1LW . . . the problem is the 4th line, right?

Why did Todd Richards (an actual NHL "guy," and a pretty good coach, actually) play AA at LW, over your sage advice?

I mean, WHY?!

He should have consulted you so you could have told him that was "the worst idea I've heard thrown around in quite some time!"

I mean, you watch 82 Blackhawk games a year, FFS!!

INSANITY!!!! GRAB THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!!

Danault drove possession at a very high rate and was LOCKED IN at 3C during the Hawks' best stretch of hockey in 15/16. I can't believe how much hype Kruger is getting on this board.
- EnzoD

No matter if you don't share our opinion of Kruger, to think Danault is "greater" is ridiculous.
Danault will continue to improve and basically end up a winger on the low end, but Kruger is simly a warrior on the wall, smart in all phases.

IF Danault WAS his equal. or looking like an adequate replacement now, he would have been.

This idea of a Kruger comparison ends with Danault's FOUR NHL goals and the 19 goals he scored in parts of THREE seasons in Rockford.

Kruger has been asked to play with low end, mis mash of wings, against the better players in the league and all the times the hawks were playing without a BIG centre, he had heavy lifting duties in the circle and jumping off the bench.


I guess I have always been a move on guy since the Cap crmped our style.
No tears about Buff, Laddie, Sharp departures, and I could easily understand a fan post pining on them...but Danault?

Nah.

Habs will probably slot him as the fourth line pivot, but there are no guarantees he fills it permanently until he shows he can...he may be on the checking line as a wing.

(JJ, just read you handled kruger role part of the...sorry for my repeating my version!)

No matter if you don't share our opinion of Kruger, to think Danault is "greater" is ridiculous.
Danault will continue to improve and basically end up a winger on the low end, but Kruger is simly a warrior on the wall, smart in all phases.

IF Danault WAS his equal. or looking like an adequate replacement now, he would have been.

This idea of a Kruger comparison ends with Danault's FOUR NHL goals and the 19 goals he scored in parts of THREE seasons in Rockford.

Kruger has been asked to play with low end, mis mash of wings, against the better players in the league and all the times the hawks were playing without a BIG centre, he had heavy lifting duties in the circle and jumping off the bench.


I guess I have always been a move on guy since the Cap crmped our style.
No tears about Buff, Laddie, Sharp departures, and I could easily understand a fan post pining on them...but Danault?

Nah.

Habs will probably slot him as the fourth line pivot, but there are no gaurantees he fills it permanently until he shows he can...he may be on the checking line as a wing.
- wiz1901

Exactly. But it doesn't fit the desired narrative. So, whatever.

Exactly. But it doesn't fit the desired narrative. So, whatever.
- John Jaeckel

Not the narrative, rather I think an opinion of a few. Folks always want to look at points when it comes to these things.

Saying Danault is as good as Kruger because he scored as many points as Kruger last year is certainly the epitome of "damning with faint praise".

I believe Kruger will prove people wrong. Problem is with guys like Kruger, you really have to watch closely to see his value, not look at a stat sheet.

He's the type of player who you have to have to win cups.

Also everyone wants to look at salary. Kruger is a bit overpaid, mostly because he took a one year cheap deal to help out the team. Obviously we'll never know, but I'll always believe that they came up with a number and term they both agreed on, and worked it the way the system allowed.

They agreed on a deal that was roughly 11.4 over 4 years. Which is certainly in line with the 3C and #1 PK guy on a cup winning team.

Kudos to the front office for sticking to the commitment when it would have been easy to renege on it. That's why the rep is good and most would like to play here.

Yep, Q was an idiot when he had him there in 11-12.

And Hinostroza replacing Hossa is brilliance. I mean, hell, let's play 5 rookies. Cup window, schmindow!!

And the Hawks weren't bad at all 5-on-5 last year . . . .

And there's no hole at 1LW . . . the problem is the 4th line, right?

Why did Todd Richards (an actual NHL "guy," and a pretty good coach, actually) play AA at LW, over your sage advice?

I mean, WHY?!

He should have consulted you so you could have told him that was "the worst idea I've heard thrown around in quite some time!"

I mean, you watch 82 Blackhawk games a year, FFS!!

INSANITY!!!! GRAB THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!!
- John Jaeckel

Unless I see more out of Hinostroza this season, the guy looks an awful lot like Pirri - one dimensional and afraid of contact - but without the attitude of entitlement.

There's a reason why he went in the 3rd Round of the KHL Draft this summer. He might ultimately end up there in a couple of seasons.

I believe Kruger will prove people wrong. Problem is with guys like Kruger, you really have to watch closely to see his value, not look at a stat sheet.

He's the type of player who you have to have to win cups.

- vabeachbear

I bet if you look up his plus minue it will be minus also...but that doesn't demean is critical value in all the areas you said...the tale of the tape doesn't cover my eyeballs..he is rally good.

Yep, Q was an idiot when he had him there in 11-12.

And Hinostroza replacing Hossa is brilliance. I mean, hell, let's play 5 rookies. Cup window, schmindow!!

And the Hawks weren't bad at all 5-on-5 last year . . . .

And there's no hole at 1LW . . . the problem is the 4th line, right?

Why did Todd Richards (an actual NHL "guy," and a pretty good coach, actually) play AA at LW, over your sage advice?

I mean, WHY?!

He should have consulted you so you could have told him that was "the worst idea I've heard thrown around in quite some time!"

I mean, you watch 82 Blackhawk games a year, FFS!!

INSANITY!!!! GRAB THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!!
- John Jaeckel

A. You're referencing Kruger playing a small stint at 2C 5 years ago during a season in which we were bounced in round 1 as evidence that he belongs in that role for this upcoming season? Really?

B. Hinostroza replacing Hossa? Who said that? What are you talking about?

C. Yes, the Hawks were bad 5 v 5 last year.....again, who said they weren't? What does Kruger playing 2C or not playing 2C have to do with that?

D. There is NO HOLE AT 1LW. Panarin is as close to a 1LW as you'll find in the NHL. There is definitely a hole at LW in general, yet the overall issue is with the bottom 6 forward depth. Your consistent belief that our top 6 is somehow weaker than our bottom 6 is laughable. Our top 6 features the reigning Art Ross winner, reigning Calder winner, and 3 future HOFers. Our bottom 6 features who? Marcus (frank)ing Kruger? The leading goal scorer in our bottom 6 is Andrew Desjardins for christ sake. Its not even close. The Hawks need to figure out their forward depth more than they need to add yet another star player to a top 6 that is already loaded with elite talent.

E. Why AA was playing LW on a different team in a different situation is completely irrelevant to this upcoming Hawks team's current situation. Did that Blue Jackets team have 3 other top 6 wingers the caliber of Kane, Panarin, and Hossa? What was their center depth like? We have ZERO center depth as it is after losing Shaw and TT. Kruger moving up to 2C leaves us with BY FAR the worst center depth in the NHL. Remember what happened in 2014 because of our center depth? You really want to move AA to LW on a team that is already depleted down the middle?

Fixed it for ya, Enzo.

Luv ya, pal, and I'll play this game.

Really zero NHL teams match up their 4C against a Ryan Getzlaf or a Jeff Carter or a Tyler Johnson. They don't. That is the job of a 3C/shutdown center, which is really what Marcus Kruger is. The Hawks have had the luxury of 2 "third lines" a couple of the previous seasons, hence the Kruger as 4C narrative.

Sami Pahlsson was a shutdown 3C. No one ever argues that. Exact same type of player Kruger is pretty much. Vernon Fiddler, Adam Burish, Nate Thompson—those are 4th line centers. Tough to play against, but not really brilliant at anything.

Funny you say Shaw is better than Kruger. I guess by your rationale, Shaw is just a 4th line winger. We know that's not really true. But that's where he played a lot of the last 2 years.

Oh, Shaw played (by default) and kind of underwjelmed as 1LW last year. Same can be said of Kruger as 2C in 2011-12, when the Hawks didn't finish in the lottery but as the third seed in the West.

As a center, Shaw is not better than Kruger. He is not his equal as a center.

A center's primary job is to win face-offs, defend the opponent's center over 200 feet of ice (both things Kruger is beer than Shaw at, and to create offensive opportunities for others. And I would argue with the same wingers, those two would be about equal at that, maybe Kruger even a bit better because his passing is underrated.

So Enzo, you're right, neither you nor I get to make personnel decisions based upon which players we like or dislike, but the Chicago Blackhawks, who have numerous former players and two Hall of Fame coaches on their payroll, do. They think Kruger is worth $3 million a season.

And here's something you need to understand: Scotty Bowman (especially) loves Kruger. So address your criticisms to him. Mmmmm-kay?



- John Jaeckel

When choosing their national squad, Team Sweden puts all of the names of their professional hockey players in a hat and King Carl of Sweden pulls out 23 names at random. Those guys are the team for the next tournament, no substitutions or exceptions.

Remarkably Marcus Kruger's name keeps being drawn out of that hat - every single year. Just dumb luck I guess and Tre Kronor gets stuck with an overpaid 4th liner with no offensive skillset.

When choosing their national squad, Team Sweden puts all of the names of their professional hockey players in a hat and King Carl of Sweden pulls out 23 names at random. Those guys are the team for the next tournament, no substitutions or exceptions.

Remarkably Marcus Kruger's name keeps being drawn out of that hat - every single year. Just dumb luck I guess and Tre Kronor gets stuck with an overpaid 4th liner with no offensive skillset.
- RickJ

Hooray for Sarcasm!

Yep, Q was an idiot when he had him there in 11-12.

And Hinostroza replacing Hossa is brilliance. I mean, hell, let's play 5 rookies. Cup window, schmindow!!

And the Hawks weren't bad at all 5-on-5 last year . . . .

And there's no hole at 1LW . . . the problem is the 4th line, right?

Why did Todd Richards (an actual NHL "guy," and a pretty good coach, actually) play AA at LW, over your sage advice?

I mean, WHY?!

He should have consulted you so you could have told him that was "the worst idea I've heard thrown around in quite some time!"

I mean, you watch 82 Blackhawk games a year, FFS!!

INSANITY!!!! GRAB THE TORCHES AND PITCHFORKS!!
- John Jaeckel

Why dispute that Kruger at 2C was a bad idea? Of all his strengths you mentioned, none of them included any high end offensive skills, and thats because he hasn't shown any in the NHL.

Why dispute that Kruger at 2C was a bad idea? Of all his strengths you mentioned, none of them included any high end offensive skills, and thats because he hasn't shown any in the NHL.
- busmaster

What's funny is he'll roast anyone that thinks Panik should get a shot playing LW in the top 6.........and then at the same time tries to defend Kruger playing 2C.

They aren't losing Panarin. If he has anything even close to last year, he will be going nowhere, will be resigned and will enter the "changing core".

Others will go first.
- vabeachbear

ABSOLUTELY! If Panarin has another 30 goal/ 70 point season he will be locked up with a high salary deal....and either Seabrook, Crawford, or some other high Cap player will be shipped out. Panarin goes nowhere.

I remember just about 15 months ago, when everyone was so excited to have TVR back in the lineup in the finals against the Bolts.

I've never understood any negatives on him. An actual college FA they were able to sign, played right away, Q trusts him and he costs 800K.

Everyone gets caught up in the fact that he had to play #4 instead of #5. I believe that's a little overanalyzing. As mentioned previous, he'd be a #4 on a lot of NHL teams, here he's now playing #5 or #6.

I wouldn't be trading any of the top 7 Dmen, whomever you deem them to be. You are going to need all the D you can get this upcoming year.

Nothing wrong with winning games 2-1 and 3-2. Also those extra points in OT. Hawks might not have 6 solid top wingers, but they have enough to play the 3-3 OT. Lots of points last year from that.

Playoffs come around, you'll be very happy with the D and goal situation.
- vabeachbear

Anyone who thinks the Hawks are a LOCK to make the tournament, please remember (and I've said this before):

They rode a 12 game winning streak to the post-season last year - outside of that, they were 35 up and 35 down - a .500 team in the non-Bettman world. You can spin that lots of ways - relaxed the last two months because they knew they were in, etc. - but still....

Better roster right now? On defense, certainly - but the forwards (without Shaw, without Teravainen, no proven left wing to play with 19 and 81, no scoring improvement bottom-6 or other than PAK - they averaged 2.02 goals per 60 minutes 5x5 last year - maybe improvement this year because of the overly long offseason, better defense leading to more ES scoring - maybe.

I'm cautiously pessimistic.

why the nhl will continue to be a "semi-pro" league...this league wants to expand with bush league teams like Az and Edm around...

bettman and his sheep the owners won't be happy until every team finishes 41-41 and we can just have a puck flip playoff system.
- bogiedoc

Edmonton is not a bush league team. The bush league teams are Arizona and Florida, really any of the southern USA teams don't come close to filling their barns unless the team is very competitive. You can throw Carolina in there too. Edmonton sells out nearly every game despite their 10 years of futility.