lol.....It's about money much of the time or relationships-No State income tax in Texas either.

Chicago isn't Xanadu to everyone.
- Al

The state tax would cost a $2,000,000 contract player about $48,000, net of the federal tax savings.

I'll not try to comment on whether or not Hudler would consider that material to his decision.

I'm happy that Backes is out of the conference.
- EKB13

Isn't it fun to have a villain to root against? During this Hawks era of greatness, I think my favorite games to watch were against the Canucks. Kesler, the Sedin "sisters".....those were fiesty times

Ah yes, Klas Dahlbeck... We barely knew ye. And Clendening, and Stanton, and Olsen, and McCarthy, and Paliotta. Makes you long for the days of Pavel Vorobiev no?

There really is no consistent predictor of NHL success. Having never been directly involved in the game I was hoping the scouting reports would possibly provide some insight, but even they have to weighed with the situation, coaching style,and other prospects.
- Chunk

I used to work out with a guy in Grand Rapids about 20 years ago who was a GREAT youth and later junior hockey player. He had a camp tryout with the Wings. Guy was built like a tank BTW. He said when he got there, he realized how physically hard pro hockey is and he didn't feel like he was up to it.

I think that is very telling. And why I am very hesitant to anoint any kid coming to the NHL from any level, except a pro league (AHL, KHL, SM-Liiga, SEL). And even then, there is an adjustment to the NHL that the kid may or may not make.

I believe it comes down to three basic things:

1) does the kid have some projectable NHL ability or attribute: a kid like Forsling who can skate and shoot, a kid like Svedberg who is 6'9" and seems to know how to use it, etc.

2) THEN, you have to look at character. How much does this kid want it, how hard is he willing to work, how humble is he? What is his family like? What has he overcome in other parts of his life? Because THOSE are the qualities that will elevate this kid (to some degree) past his other deficiencies—and allow him to be a useful, if not good NHL player.

3) Luck. Is he getting with the right coaches and trainers in the right systems, does he stay healthy, etc.

Fans seem to fall in love with scouting reports that assess skills, but don't shed much light if any on character, work ethic, expectations, family background. TT is a PRIME example. Off the charts skills, highly questionable physical commitment (to this point anyway).

Alex Kojevnikov who the Hawks drafted 15 years ago or so was an example of a kid who had ALL the tools, wheels, moves, freakish physique, could really shoot the puck. Then he got a bad concussion—and pfffffffffft. Luck.

Eric Daze. The hawks drafted this gangly kid in the 4th round when they were scouting his line mate in the Q, Alexandre Daigle, Daze could really skate and shoot. And then he worked to become a pretty damn good NHL player. Character, effort, willingness. Hard to scout. But not impossible.

So I get excited by the positive, humble attitude exhibited at times by a Tyler Motte or a Vinnie Hinostroza. But that is all that this point.

It's strange that there is no news on hockey buzz, or any of the cap sites about Hudler's deal

Usually once the cat is out of the bag everyone reports on it.

You are a wise man not to say more because probably no one on here knows what is important to Hudler.

The only opinion I stated earlier is if he was going to sign with Vancouver it probably was about the money.

Trying to pick a team that's going to win a Cup when a UFA, works out only once in awhile.

The state tax would cost a $2,000,000 contract player about $48,000, net of the federal tax savings.

I'll not try to comment on whether or not Hudler would consider that material to his decision.
- StLBravesFan

If your math is right 50k could make a difference if Hudler views the Stars and Hawks as equals . 50k is more than 0

Mr. Crabby Pants has arrived to give a reality check along with a slap.

Paul Bittner was a good junior player who so far hasn’t project to a good pro player.

Jacob de La Rose is a developing player, but don’t we have are OWN developing players coming to camp? And I don’t think teams are simply giving them away as the season started.

Maybe, just maybe, in a playoff push at the deadline teams trade prospects to get giant vet playoff fills, not now. This is the time of hope.

Guys that will be available are the ones that after camp, haven’t been able to crack the parent club lineup and are past their window that allows them to simply “return to the farm.”
Guys that CAN be lost by claims from other NHL clubs, well, they might be offered around, but remember, they ween’t able to make that teams final roster.
Andreas Athanasiou played on two of the strongest London Knights teams ever, before being trade to Barrie. (He and San Jose’s Chris Tierney were delegated to support roles around Max Domi, Vladislav Namestnikov, Bo Horvat, Seth Griffith, Jared Knight, Greg McKegg, and big Austin Watson who still hasn’t cracked the Pred’s lineup permanently.)
The speed he has was evident there, but there seems to always be the same problem I tend to perseverate on: he has trouble receiving, handling and advancing the puck at the speed rate he was able to move.
But the Wings are gonna be very hesitant to move a speedy guy, because guys do improve around game. Athanasiou is better defensively than while a junior, do there is no rush to unload him, or any wing for TvR unless injuries hit their backline.
Their defense does need a shot in the arm, new blood, but if they are exiling forward prospects they might as well think bigger in Trouba, and trade the Jets a couple more forwards they don't have room to play!

Think about how Bowman was active in acquiring forwards to audition, and they HAD NHL experience…they came and went when they didn’t click with the system, the linemates, etc.
Anyway we are not talking so much about trying to poach a developing guy to help us in the future. We are talking about filling a high end starting NHL position with a guy you has played there so we don’t have to light candles that our farm hands fail to meet expectations before playoff time.

I just don’t think this is the time you fill or attempt to fill that need.

And anytime a fan of ANY team suggests their HOME team give three lesser-lights for one stronger evolved lighthouse (eg. 3 for 1 trade), you show your immaturity of the process.
The only teams giving away talent for lesser lights are the one like the Hawks who simply are “Cap-captive.”
- wiz1901

Yeah, here's the problem with some of your hypothesis, though I agree with a lot of it too.

Bowman has a BAD habit of waiting and waiting and waiting— thinking the market is coming to him, when 29 other GMs know what every fan on this board (well, most of them) know. He has a need and a management/fan expectation, and as time goes by in the absence of a solution, the pressure mounts on him to make a deal, and his position is compromised.

It is POSSIBLE that an injury or something something opens up some cap space for him before 3/1. Or that there is a surprise emergence of some player that strengthens his position. But it is just as (or more) likely not.

So to say this is not the time to trade is just not accurate. The time to trade is when you are least backed up to the wall. Period.

If the Hawks are in 4th place in February and still depending on one line for 45% of its goals and a crap 5-on-5 team, what GM is going to bend over for Stanley?

Hello?

Especially when 28 other teams are in the market and have generally better prospects to offer, or players they can part with. Bowman has little of either because he is literally 1-2 players from a Cup.

Funny, Ken Holland, who KNOWS a thing or two about a thing or two is rumored to be in the market for a missing RHD now. Maybe he didn't get the "preferred timing" memo.

I used to work out with a guy in Grand Rapids about 20 years ago who was a GREAT youth and later junior hockey player. He had a camp tryout with the Wings. Guy was built like a tank BTW. He said when he got there, he realized how physically hard pro hockey is and he didn't feel like he was up to it.

I think that is very telling. And why I am very hesitant to anoint any kid coming to the NHL from any level, except a pro league (AHL, KHL, SM-Liiga, SEL). And even then, there is an adjustment to the NHL that the kid may or may not make.

I believe it comes down to three basic things:

1) does the kid have some projectable NHL ability or attribute: a kid like Forsling who can skate and shoot, a kid like Svedberg who is 6'9" and seems to know how to use it, etc.

2) THEN, you have to look at character. How much does this kid want it, how hard is he willing to work, how humble is he? What is his family like? What has he overcome in other parts of his life? Because THOSE are the qualities that will elevate this kid (to some degree) past his other deficiencies—and allow him to be a useful, if not good NHL player.

3) Luck. Is he getting with the right coaches and trainers in the right systems, does he stay healthy, etc.

Fans seem to fall in love with scouting reports that assess skills, but don't shed much light if any on character, work ethic, expectations, family background. TT is a PRIME example. Off the charts skills, highly questionable physical commitment (to this point anyway).

Alex Kojevnikov who the Hawks drafted 15 years ago or so was an example of a kid who had ALL the tools, wheels, moves, freakish physique, could really shoot the puck. Then he got a bad concussion—and pfffffffffft. Luck.

Eric Daze. The hawks drafted this gangly kid in the 4th round when they were scouting his line mate in the Q, Alexandre Daigle, Daze could really skate and shoot. And then he worked to become a pretty damn good NHL player. Character, effort, willingness. Hard to scout. But not impossible.

So I get excited by the positive, humble attitude exhibited at times by a Tyler Motte or a Vinnie Hinostroza. But that is all that this point.
- John Jaeckel

Very well written JJ.

There isn't a better example of a guy wanting it more and overcoming obstacles than Andrew Shaw. The Hawks will be looking a very long time for a replacement with his attributes.

You are a wise man not to say more because probably no one on here knows what is important to Hudler.

The only opinion I stated earlier is if he was going to sign with Vancouver it probably was about the money.

Trying to pick a team that's going to win a Cup when a UFA, works out only once in awhile.
- Al

True. And there could be lots of reasons he didn't want to come to Chi. Maybe he hates Rozsival over something. Maybe he got in trouble back in Chicago in his youth. Maybe he has friends in dallas. Who knows?

Very well written JJ.

There isn't a better example of a guy wanting it more and overcoming obstacles than Andrew Shaw. The Hawks will be looking a very long time for a replacement with his attributes.
- RickJ

Yep, Shaw and Dustin Byfuglien came to mind. Kids from ROUGH backgrounds who overcame some things.

True. And there could be lots of reasons he didn't want to come to Chi. Maybe he hates Rozsival over something. Maybe he got in trouble back in Chicago in his youth. Maybe he has friends in dallas. Who knows?
- John Jaeckel

Are you hinting at something, JJ?

Are you hinting at something, JJ?
- Hank3Henshaw

No, not at all, honestly. Just what ifs to underscore the point.

No, not at all, honestly. Just what ifs to underscore the point.
- John Jaeckel

Oh, OK. I gotcha

Well, now they test out Hogs up there on the first line. Or make some sort of trade.

Either way, I'm curious/excited to see what they do.

True. And there could be lots of reasons he didn't want to come to Chi. Maybe he hates Rozsival over something. Maybe he got in trouble back in Chicago in his youth. Maybe he has friends in dallas. Who knows?
- John Jaeckel

Yep....
One thing for sure is Hudler had choices.

Bowman on the other hand doesn't have many choices.....

A. Package up a couple of young guys he doesn't want to trade yet to get a proven winger.
B. Trade one of 2 guys off the roster like TVR or Kruger.
C. Hope someone values young players that haven't proven they can play in Chicago like McNeill or Polka etc.

"A" makes Bowman squirm as he probably likes Schmaltz and Motte.
"B" make his squirm and sweat as he is filling a hole by creating another.
"C" Well, this one would be more ideal but most unlikely.

I used to work out with a guy in Grand Rapids about 20 years ago who was a GREAT youth and later junior hockey player. He had a camp tryout with the Wings. Guy was built like a tank BTW. He said when he got there, he realized how physically hard pro hockey is and he didn't feel like he was up to it.

I think that is very telling. And why I am very hesitant to anoint any kid coming to the NHL from any level, except a pro league (AHL, KHL, SM-Liiga, SEL). And even then, there is an adjustment to the NHL that the kid may or may not make.

I believe it comes down to three basic things:

1) does the kid have some projectable NHL ability or attribute: a kid like Forsling who can skate and shoot, a kid like Svedberg who is 6'9" and seems to know how to use it, etc.

2) THEN, you have to look at character. How much does this kid want it, how hard is he willing to work, how humble is he? What is his family like? What has he overcome in other parts of his life? Because THOSE are the qualities that will elevate this kid (to some degree) past his other deficiencies—and allow him to be a useful, if not good NHL player.

3) Luck. Is he getting with the right coaches and trainers in the right systems, does he stay healthy, etc.

Fans seem to fall in love with scouting reports that assess skills, but don't shed much light if any on character, work ethic, expectations, family background. TT is a PRIME example. Off the charts skills, highly questionable physical commitment (to this point anyway).

Alex Kojevnikov who the Hawks drafted 15 years ago or so was an example of a kid who had ALL the tools, wheels, moves, freakish physique, could really shoot the puck. Then he got a bad concussion—and pfffffffffft. Luck.

Eric Daze. The hawks drafted this gangly kid in the 4th round when they were scouting his line mate in the Q, Alexandre Daigle, Daze could really skate and shoot. And then he worked to become a pretty damn good NHL player. Character, effort, willingness. Hard to scout. But not impossible.

So I get excited by the positive, humble attitude exhibited at times by a Tyler Motte or a Vinnie Hinostroza. But that is all that this point.
- John Jaeckel

All good points and then realize in this sport many young guys leave home at 14/15 trying to grab onto a dream. They play, play, play and work hard trying to get drafted as some do but mentally the tank is empty.

That's also a reason some never amount to much because the grind isn't over when drafted-It's a different grind but except for the elite, a young player needs to be dialed on high almost always.

With Hudler gone, my bet is Stan lets camp roll through and starts the season with our current roster to see if any young guys jump out. If not, then he evaluates a trade or signing. I think we're done for the offseason.

There isn't a better example of a guy wanting it more and overcoming obstacles than Andrew Shaw. The Hawks will be looking a very long time for a replacement with his attributes.

Exactly my feeling....

As much as fans want to worry about getting a player to fill a need that was missing all of last year...I would be more concerned about replacing the skill set that left.

Nice chess move by Dallas. Sign a player that one of your biggest competitors wants. That's what happens when you wait and gamble on Vessey!

Nice chess move by Dallas. Sign a player that one of your biggest competitors wants. That's what happens when you wait and gamble on Vessey!
- Boisy12

Maybe if they had signed him before Vesey. I'm betting Hudler himself was waiting until after to get a better deal form those who missed.

Trading Frosling TVR or Pokka for what, a player who will need to make less then 1.8 mil a year smells of complete desperation .And would be just plain silly . You can never have to many solid young D man . In this flat cap era the draft and college FA and Veteran FA is the way to go . Sure it would have been wonderful to get Vessy ,but it did not happen . It is insane to keep harping that the HAWKS have no prospect and can't possibly compete if they play some young and not so young players . Rasmussen is what he is a big tough 4th liner Lundberg who knows but they are both 26 years old not raw rookies .Hartman McNiel Carrick 22 to 24 years old and are prime prospects . Schmaltz Motte are young but have high end talent . Get ready to learn a few new names this season .And I for one will be happy to watch them mature into NHL players, with the mentoring of some of the finest player around ..GO HAWKS !!!!
- oldduffman

They are desperate. And want to win this year. Because they will need to move assets next summer, it probably wont be pretty and they will go through another two year mini rebuild and hope that Keith still has legs by then.

Solid D men is a relative statement. TVR is perfect at over 12 minutes on a third pairing getting some juicy match ups. Not so much when you ask him to do more. He will probably be a solid player but also probably ask in the 2.5 - 3.5 million range. If Kompany shows well, I think those dollars get allocated to him.

The guys in Rockford may be OK in the AHL or good in the AHL but that doesn't necessarily translate. Connley and Clendenning were fine AHL players but not so much at the next level.

In my opinion, in the NHL for defensive players, you get tremendous skaters with killer vision like Forsling OR pure athletes like Stephen Johns. Anyone else is expendable. These middling guys with average footwork aren't anything to be concerned about losing.

I understand TVR's likely limited potential but I don't get why that makes him expendable. Just as the biggest different between your 2012 first round losers and your 2013 Cup champs was a 5th dman named Rozival, you now have a guy that reliably eats 14 minutes a game and it's not easy to replace that.

Now if you had faith any of the farmhands about to get their looksie, which I don't think you do... Perhaps that does make him expendable.
- busmaster

Someone finna pay him like a low end second pairing guy.

Nice chess move by Dallas. Sign a player that one of your biggest competitors wants. That's what happens when you wait and gamble on Vessey!
- Boisy12

had to gamble on Vesey - the number 1 UFA prospect this summer who (by all/most accounts) had Chicago on his short list.

It's what happens when you're up against the cap with little room to improve your team, and other teams appear to be a more attractive option to quality UFAs for whatever reason.

Quality veteran free agents aren't giving the Blackhawks cap-friendly deals the past couple of years - Saad, Shaw, Hudler, others....

The lure of playing with Toews, Kane, Hossa appears not to be as strong as it was.

There isn't a better example of a guy wanting it more and overcoming obstacles than Andrew Shaw. The Hawks will be looking a very long time for a replacement with his attributes.

Exactly my feeling....

As much as fans want to worry about getting a player to fill a need that was missing all of last year...I would be more concerned about replacing the skill set that left.
- Al

I don't think you can ever replace Shaw completely, he is a unique forward (on and off the ice). I think it's possible to replace some of the attributes Shaw brought to the team.
Expecting any of the prospects to replace Shaw is a long-shot. It's possible that Motte (for example) becomes the next Shaw, but it would be a big risk. I don't see any remaining UFAs that would be a decent fit either. Their are a couple decent bottom 6 forwards available but none that would replace Shaw. This leaves Stan with the trade route.

Early in the off season I made this suggestion and I'll bring it up again - Pat Maroon. Is Maroon the answer to all the teams needs? No. Can Maroon add depth at LW and help replace some of the void left by Shaw? Yes. Maroon played at a 0.88 PPG basis after being traded to Edmonton. I don't believe that level of production is sustainable but it's a glimpse of some offensive talent that may not have been utilized in Anaheim. Maroon's cap hit of $1.5 million for the next 2 seasons is also a bonus.

With Jurco, it's debatable, probably not—except he is bigger, as fast or faster and more mature physically, and has more experience than the Wonder Smurfs.

Pulkinen is also on the small side, but he has been dramatically more productive in the AHL than Hinostroza has been (for example). He has legitimate top 6 winger skill. AND, he has a LOT more pro experience than our prospects. Pulkinen is also one of those guys who can play either wing position.

If you could get him from Detroit for TVR and Forsling today, IMO, you do it in a heartbeat. And maybe Forsling ends up being a better NHL player than Pulkinen, maybe, possibly, doesn't matter. You need a top 6 winger today, for this season.

They did NOT go after Vesey because they thought they had that position filled with what they have.
- John Jaeckel

Like they say the Grass is always Greener on the other side . I feel the HAWKS are much more comfortable with there young player because they know they are not alone , many teams will be filling holes with young unproven players . Getting two 2nd for Shaw was a very good deal IMO . And getting Debrincat (not that he will start this year) was a good start ,also signing Lundberg and Kemptney were solid moves .. And who was that kid in summer camp ,you never know were the next big thing will come from ..Keep the faith !!

I don't think you can ever replace Shaw completely, he is a unique forward (on and off the ice). I think it's possible to replace some of the attributes Shaw brought to the team.
Expecting any of the prospects to replace Shaw is a long-shot. It's possible that Motte (for example) becomes the next Shaw, but it would be a big risk. I don't see any remaining UFAs that would be a decent fit either. Their are a couple decent bottom 6 forwards available but none that would replace Shaw. This leaves Stan with the trade route.

Early in the off season I made this suggestion and I'll bring it up again - Pat Maroon. Is Maroon the answer to all the teams needs? No. Can Maroon add depth at LW and help replace some of the void left by Shaw? Yes. Maroon played at a 0.88 PPG basis after being traded to Edmonton. I don't believe that level of production is sustainable but it's a glimpse of some offensive talent that may not have been utilized in Anaheim. Maroon's cap hit of $1.5 million for the next 2 seasons is also a bonus.
- DarthKane

Interesting suggestion. I like Maroon.

Huge body, can get in front of the net or work below the goal line.

Frankly, I'd be happy if Bowman picked up anyone at this point. Where's Scott Gomez at these days?