Along the way, some of those cap-based trades needed to be the higher end salaries, while retaining the depth. Now they're trapped with one line and one pairing taking up way too much cap and not tradeable to fix the matter, and no depth to take their place anyway. It would've helped if some of those contracts involved actual negotiations instead of just backing up a dump truck full of money every time with no regard for the future.
- DarthProbert

Well....the hawks have provided us with amazing thrills and high level entertainment the last 7-8 years: 5 WC finals and 3 cups with a never say die attitude and performance. Certainly very thankful. The price has been paid for that success: big contracts to the "core; prospects and picks gone at the deadline and a stangnat cap forcing them to move leddy, saad, TT, shaw and most likely panerin or another "core" player. An aging Hossa seen as 3rd liner now. Toews has no playmates (sorry Richard Panik is not the answer). Now a bottom 6 that looks thoroughly offensively challnged.

not a eulogy but getting damn close...look when 5-6 teams are throwing royal parties for a 3rd round pick college free agent to whoo him...soemthing is really wrong with this league and how they have decided to do business. tells you how desperate the hawks are...

Thank you, Wiz.

It's funny how an "idea" can get lift on internet message boards alone.

This, for me, reached the point of insanity when I read a couple of weeks ago on Twitter, a fairly respected ember of the Chicago hockey media suggesting lineups where Hossa would be moved the third line (because, after all, "it's what everyone thinks should happen, right?"), and he would be replaced by Vince Hinostroza—a guy who scored 18 goals in the AHL last year.

OK, this is insane.

I mean, yeah, if you acquired a guy like, meh, say, Loui Eriksson to go with Patrick Kane, then you have some starboard-side wingers that give you the luxury of planting a Marian Hossa on the third line.

But the Hawks don't have that guy or anything close to him.

This whole notion of a forced "semi-retirement" for Hossa (right now) is asinine.

And here's why:

1) the aforementioned point, other than Patrick Kane, who's a better right wing on the roster or in the pipeline? Answer: no one.
2) Hossa had an off year last year. So did Toews. And both had a revolving door of guys at LW on their line who were all out of position or playing over their heads.
3) I have also heard that Toews (at least) was playing on fumes much of last year after the Cup run in 2015 and a very abbreviated and not productive summer of rest and conditioning. Same is probably true (maybe moreso) of a 37 year old Hossa who does his summer training halfway across the world.
4) Hossa is marvelously well-conditioned athlete, with the right genetics to have a productive career into his late 30's/early 40's. He obviously has a high percentage of "white muscle" (fast-twitch muscle fiber relative to slow twitch), not unlike Nolan Ryan, Teemu Selanne and others.

You know what, Hossa may see some "third line" minutes this year. But unless someone REALLY steps up and makes things go with Toews (against top 4 NHL defenders and shutdown lines), don't count on it lasting long. And remember, there's already a big hole on Toews' LEFT side to begin with.
- John Jaeckel

I think the Jagr and Hossa comparison is accurate. Both are insanely fit guys that love working out. The only difference is Jagr even being as slow as he is now is a better player in close than Hossa probably has better hands too(both play with very long sticks I believe so that's not really an issue).

I think Hossa's offensive game was built more on power and speed than Jagrs. When he was a scoring machine on the Thrasher and Ottawa even the Wings he scored so many goals off speed and power moves. He would just bull rush through opposing D. Jagr has really transitioned his game. Literally everytime I watch him play all he does is park his huge ass down low. No one can move him. Dude is still a load and a half.

Hossa's scoring diminish as he ages is due to the way he scored when he was younger. I imagine we may see him change up his game a bit to better adapt to his abilities. I don't think he has lost his hands at all I just think he is a quarter step slower than he used to be which equals less space for him.

Hossa is still a better skater than 95% of the NHL players and he is one of the smartest hockey players in the NHL. I think he changes up his offensive game and we see him bounce back with a 50-60 pt season. There are so many bigger issues with this team. Hossa's age should be at the bottom of the list or off the list completely. I'd be more worried about Seabrook as he ages than Hossa.

Is Shipachov still an option here?

Gotta figure they would try to shift their focus to him if he is eligible to come over. Get Panarin and Anisimov to do some recruiting

Being a long time fan, of course growing up in that era,obviously Bobby Hull was my all time favorite, after that, this new era included, Al Secord is my all time favorite Hawk, to this day, they have never replaced what he brought every night, you can have the play when Ifeellike it temperamental piss asses of this era,give me Big Al any day! Just too bad that team in the 80's got so close but never got to hoist the chalice! Being a season tix holder since 72-73 , I was lucky enough to be at almost all of those home games!
All I'm asking Stan Bowman for is give us 1player that even remotely resembles Big Al! I still wear his jersey to most home games, haven't bought any of the little candy asses jerseys ,almost got a Saad 1 and then he was gone!
I have to admit, when he played here, I was a big fan of Bob Probert also! R I P Probie!
- wonthecup10

There are only a handful of Al Secord's around the league, maybe less than that.
Look how many guys score at least 20 goals and can throw 200 hits in a season...

Funny thing is Hawks had 2 guys in that category-Ladd and Brouwer.

They also drafted Kyle Beach to be like Big Al and paid Bickell the motherload because he was going to be the power forward that haven't had in years.

You can wish but It is almost like asking for world peace.

There are only a handful of Al Secord's around the league, maybe less than that.
Look how many guys score at least 20 goals and can throw 200 hits in a season...

Funny thing is Hawks had 2 guys in that category-Ladd and Brouwer.

They also drafted Kyle Beach to be like Big Al and paid Bickell the motherload because he was going to be the power forward that haven't had in years.

You can wish but it is almost like asking for world peace.
- Al

They are rare. Look at all the big contracts thrown at guys teams hope can be that. Bickell wasn't the only guy.

I think the Jagr and Hossa comparison is accurate. Both are insanely fit guys that love working out. The only difference is Jagr even being as slow as he is now is a better player in close than Hossa probably has better hands too(both play with very long sticks I believe so that's not really an issue).

I think Hossa's offensive game was built more on power and speed than Jagrs. When he was a scoring machine on the Thrasher and Ottawa even the Wings he scored so many goals off speed and power moves. He would just bull rush through opposing D. Jagr has really transitioned his game. Literally everytime I watch him play all he does is park his huge ass down low. No one can move him. Dude is still a load and a half.

Hossa's scoring diminish as he ages is due to the way he scored when he was younger. I imagine we may see him change up his game a bit to better adapt to his abilities. I don't think he has lost his hands at all I just think he is a quarter step slower than he used to be which equals less space for him.

Hossa is still a better skater than 95% of the NHL players and he is one of the smartest hockey players in the NHL. I think he changes up his offensive game and we see him bounce back with a 50-60 pt season. There are so many bigger issues with this team. Hossa's age should be at the bottom of the list or off the list completely. I'd be more worried about Seabrook as he ages than Hossa.
- bhawks2241

Hossa still back checks like the opposing player stole his wallet. And because Seabrook gets more ice time I agree about being concerned with him before Hossa.

They are rare. Look at all the big contracts thrown at guys teams hope can be that. Bickell wasn't the only guy.
- bhawks2241

I said at the time .... I would have paid Bickell.
Fact was there were others that would have and just in case he turned out to be a true power forward....How many years has been since Al Secord???

Issue with Bickell was he was always inconsistent-That's why he played in Rockford for so long-That coupled with more than one physical issue, which was the perfect storm for what happened.

I'm a bit surprised that another domino has not fallen since the Vesey-to-NYR news. I thought Stan would have had a Plan B (to Vesey) ready to sign over the weekend. Apparently the gap at LW is going to require more than a Hudler bandaid.

So where do the Hawks go from here? There is no abundance of "young talent" to use as a trade-chip for a marquee player (Teuvo, Dano, etc.). To me, it looks like:

A) Hawks must make signings of "role player" guys, most likely bottom 6 quality, that could thrive in the Hawks system
B) Hawks must get vast improvement in offensive production from lines where #88 does not skate
C) Hawks could try and package a sundry of role players (TvR, Kruger, Desi, etc.) for other role players that provide a better "fit" for the season. I think this scenario is unlikely as they would just trade one set of ills for another.

Thoughts?

I said at the time .... I would have paid Bickell.
Fact was there were others that would have and just in case he turned out to be a true power forward....How many years has been since Al Secord???

Issue with Bickell was he was always inconsistent-That's why he played in Rockford for so long-That coupled with more than one physical issue, which was the perfect storm for what happened.
- Al

Knees disintegrating did not help. When your effort is inconsistent bad knees make it that much harder to bring the effort

There are only a handful of Al Secord's around the league, maybe less than that.
Look how many guys score at least 20 goals and can throw 200 hits in a season...

Funny thing is Hawks had 2 guys in that category-Ladd and Brouwer.

They also drafted Kyle Beach to be like Big Al and paid Bickell the motherload because he was going to be the power forward that haven't had in years.

You can wish but It is almost like asking for world peace.
- Al

well big bangers on this team have been more rare than marcus kruger goals...

saad was the young horse heir apparent to hossa...the bonus was he produced early...i will say again his loss will haunt and hurt this team for years...players like him are also rare..

you talk about hail marys: hartmann, smaltz, hinostra, mott, panik...this team looks worse than the devils in scoring ability..

and what a poopty schedule they got...how about that 7 game western swing in 12 days

expect to see alot of this early and often

Hossa still back checks like the opposing player stole his wallet. And because Seabrook gets more ice time I agree about being concerned with him before Hossa.
- 6628

This is all nice and good, but for everyone out there who says hes not a problem - why is he being discussed as a 3rd line checking option? You would never consider that when he signed.

I feel like everyone here knows the answer but is denying it.

We better hope and pray (against odds) that Motte, Panik AND Schmaltz are the real deal because in my book, guys like Lundberg, Rassmussem, Tootoo and Hinostroza aren't a heck of a lot better than the 2012 version with guys like Morrison, Bollig, Brunnette and Morin.

I'm a bit surprised that another domino has not fallen since the Vesey-to-NYR news. I thought Stan would have had a Plan B (to Vesey) ready to sign over the weekend. Apparently the gap at LW is going to require more than a Hudler bandaid.

So where do the Hawks go from here? There is no abundance of "young talent" to use as a trade-chip for a marquee player (Teuvo, Dano, etc.). To me, it looks like:

A) Hawks must make signings of "role player" guys, most likely bottom 6 quality, that could thrive in the Hawks system
B) Hawks must get vast improvement in offensive production from lines where #88 does not skate
C) Hawks could try and package a sundry of role players (TvR, Kruger, Desi, etc.) for other role players that provide a better "fit" for the season. I think this scenario is unlikely as they would just trade one set of ills for another.

Thoughts?
- phantasmo

The issue has been and still is there isn't an abundance of talent to deal from in Rockford...Sorry but Dano didn't fall into that category either otherwise he would not have been thrown in on a rent a player deal.

So Bowman is stuck unless someone wants a young player that won't make the roster out of camp-Smith-Polka...??

There are no secrets in the NHL and the young guys others value Bowman doesn't want to trade or because of the cap situation really can't afford to.

I'm a bit surprised that another domino has not fallen since the Vesey-to-NYR news. I thought Stan would have had a Plan B (to Vesey) ready to sign over the weekend. Apparently the gap at LW is going to require more than a Hudler bandaid.

So where do the Hawks go from here? There is no abundance of "young talent" to use as a trade-chip for a marquee player (Teuvo, Dano, etc.). To me, it looks like:

A) Hawks must make signings of "role player" guys, most likely bottom 6 quality, that could thrive in the Hawks system
B) Hawks must get vast improvement in offensive production from lines where #88 does not skate
C) Hawks could try and package a sundry of role players (TvR, Kruger, Desi, etc.) for other role players that provide a better "fit" for the season. I think this scenario is unlikely as they would just trade one set of ills for another.

Thoughts?
- phantasmo

not going to solve getting playmates for 19 buy trading 3rd and 4th line prospects and they don't have the money even for a hudler type...he aint coming for 2 mildo for the so called chance at a cup..he can get 3 plus from other teams..

well big bangers on this team have been more rare than marcus kruger goals...

saad was the young horse heir apparent to hossa...the bonus was he produced early...i will say again his loss will haunt and hurt this team for years...players like him are also rare..

you talk about hail marys: hartmann, smaltz, hinostra, mott, panik...this team looks worse than the devils in scoring ability..

and what a poopty schedule they got...how about that 7 game western swing in 12 days

expect to see alot of this early and often

- bogiedoc

Saad hurts no doubt but not sure he is a Lucic like player but still really good.
If you think Saad's loss hurts now, imagine if they didn't get AA in the deal and were stuck taking draft picks only.

Hawks may have to win a lot of 2-1, 3-2 games to secure a good playoff spot.

Knees disintegrating did not help. When your effort is inconsistent bad knees make it that much harder to bring the effort
- bhawks2241

Bickell could skate well in a straight line for a big guy but losing even 1 step does matter a lot-Also the concussion-vertigo stuff made a big difference.

He's (Hudler) worth every bit of 2 mil don't you think? Maybe it's term he's looking for? Still only 32 yrs old and points wise he's a career .6 per game guy who can skate top 6.
- Mr Ricochet

At this point, I'd agree that Hudler is worth $2 million.

Motte . . . maybe . . . maybe . . . if the Hawks are very lucky, can be a reliable top 6 forward this year.

Fortin is 19 years old and had a good prospect camp. As did Ryan Garlock, Adam Berti, igor Makarov, Alex Kojevnikov, etc at the same age. In other words, if Fortin is what you're counting on, look out below, the wheels are off.
- John Jaeckel

Agreed.

If McNeill can't make this team out of camp, he"ll get the Jeremy Morin change of address treatment.
- RickJ

Fair point, and it more than likely will go down that way.

My gut tells me that McNeill will get every opportunity to make the team in camp. Further, I believe that they'll carry him on the big club to start the season. However, I believe you're correct - if McNeill can't keep up, Bowman will ship him out rather than risk losing him to waivers.

My wife got me a game used Sullivan jersey. The day it arrived i tried it on and my wife got a horrified look on her face. I told her i thought it looked good on me and she just pointed to the sports ticker on the screen saying he was traded
- ikeane

Ugh! That's a bummer.

Saad hurts no doubt but not sure he is a Lucic like player but still really good.
If you think Saad's loss hurts now, imagine if they didn't get AA in the deal and were stuck taking draft picks only.

Hawks may have to win a lot of 2-1, 3-2 games to secure a good playoff spot.
- Al

agree saad was not a banger......he was better than lucic type of player..but he was big body good skater who could finish

Ugh! That's a bummer.
- matt_ahrens

Talk about bad luck.

Well....the hawks have provided us with amazing thrills and high level entertainment the last 7-8 years: 5 WC finals and 3 cups with a never say die attitude and performance. Certainly very thankful. The price has been paid for that success: big contracts to the "core; prospects and picks gone at the deadline and a stangnat cap forcing them to move leddy, saad, TT, shaw and most likely panerin or another "core" player. An aging Hossa seen as 3rd liner now. Toews has no playmates (sorry Richard Panik is not the answer). Now a bottom 6 that looks thoroughly offensively challnged.

not a eulogy but getting damn close...look when 5-6 teams are throwing royal parties for a 3rd round pick college free agent to whoo him...soemthing is really wrong with this league and how they have decided to do business. tells you how desperate the hawks are...
- bogiedoc

Yep, I'm feeling that too. That's why I hope the front office gets aggressive now and trades one or two of 50, 7, 15, and 16. With 19 and 88, the team has two elite stars who are still in their prime. 81 and 2 are still very effective and 2's contract is way reasonable for his productivity and trading 81 doesn't make financial sense because of the recapture, plus he is still a very good player. Likewise, #4 is really good and well priced.

In Panarin, the Blackhawk have the potential of another young, very good to elite player. They don't come around every day and if you have one, you need to keep him if you can, especially if the current window is closing. And that's where this team is, the current window is closing but there are enough assets - some to keep, some to trade - to rebuild on the fly and open a new window. I'd hate to see them hold on to these assets too long and get stuck with too much money tied up in declining players and/or getting a worse return.

The only question in my mind right now is if Stan can somehow, as JJ says, pull a rabbit out of his hat, and get a top 6 LW and get enough out of the bottom six to make another run this year.

Down the road there might be more Brian Campbell type deals if some former Hawks are willing to come back on the cheap for another run (Sharp, Oduya, etc.) but I don't know that you can count on that if you're the GM.

I'm a bit surprised that another domino has not fallen since the Vesey-to-NYR news. I thought Stan would have had a Plan B (to Vesey) ready to sign over the weekend. Apparently the gap at LW is going to require more than a Hudler bandaid.

So where do the Hawks go from here? There is no abundance of "young talent" to use as a trade-chip for a marquee player (Teuvo, Dano, etc.). To me, it looks like:

A) Hawks must make signings of "role player" guys, most likely bottom 6 quality, that could thrive in the Hawks system
B) Hawks must get vast improvement in offensive production from lines where #88 does not skate
C) Hawks could try and package a sundry of role players (TvR, Kruger, Desi, etc.) for other role players that provide a better "fit" for the season. I think this scenario is unlikely as they would just trade one set of ills for another.

Thoughts?
- phantasmo

Maybe there is a European available that Stan could get.
Maybe there is a younger LW on a team that is stacked (NYI or Ed?) who could be had for a TVR and/or other prospects
Maybe package Kruger with TVR and/or other prospects for a veteran LW, then play Desi at 3LC
Maybe bring in some veterans on PTO contracts and hope something clicks.
Maybe start with the youth movement, see what this team can do as-is, and hope the market opens up to bring in a piece or two for a cup run this year.
Maybe this team just isn't enough and you trade one or more of the core - 7, 50, 16, 15 - with an eye towards cleaning cap space to resign Panarin and get some cheaper players to balance out the lines in the near future.

I still believe this is a really good team. Our defense is much improved and we have kept Corey. Sure, would have been nice to have Vesey. And it would be nice to have Hudler. But if not, this team will still compete for the Cup. Don't discount how valuable the time off with the early playoff exit will be for them. It would be asking a lot for 2 or more young guys to really hit....but I feel strongly that one will be a forty point player this year. And they might be aggressive at the trade deadline again.

I know it is easy to be a Haugh or Mariotti or some other negative nelly in the media....but we have a good team.

I still believe this is a really good team. Our defense is much improved and we have kept Corey. Sure, would have been nice to have Vesey. And it would be nice to have Hudler. But if not, this team will still compete for the Cup. Don't discount how valuable the time off with the early playoff exit will be for them. It would be asking a lot for 2 or more young guys to really hit....but I feel strongly that one will be a forty point player this year. And they might be aggressive at the trade deadline again.

I know it is easy to be a Haugh or Mariotti or some other negative nelly in the media....but we have a good team.
- onehundredlevel

I hope you're right!