I've been out all weekend and am not sure if this has been touched on. Last week I noticed a bunch of posters projecting results this coming season based on results from last season. I don't think that is completely accurate. Even if they had signed this college hot shot the best thing about this summer is that it came early. Plenty of rest for Toews and especially Hossa as well as the rest of them. I think just based on that the team will be a little more perked up this year. Add a few guys that are hungry and you have the making for a competitive team. Hossa is not the one I'd be concerned about, it's Q adapting how he plays his hand based on what he has to work with. I also agree with those who suggest Hossa could be a great 3rd liner in the coming years.

Months ago when Seabrook mock trade proposals were shared by posters here, one destination that I found intriguing was Edmonton where we would get Nurse in return. The trade may have other assets going both ways, not a 1-for-1 trade.

For your trade proposal, I'd say yes to Hamonic but would rather have someone else other than Clutterbuck who wouldn't last long in Q's system. He dishes out way too many hits that pull him out of position.
- AEL_Fox

Nurse is interesting, depending on who else the Blackhawks have to take in return. The idea is to get the cap space to sign Panarin so that's somewhat limiting. And, if another defenseman isn't included, it might take a few years for Nurse to be legit top 4 on a cup contender.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of Clutterbuck but he might bring some grit.

Let me start by saying I don't WANT to trade any of the core, I just think that the Blackhawks need to resign Panarin and I'm assuming it'll cost close to $6m per.

So what about trading Seabrook for a cheaper, younger player who is still developing? It'll be a loss, obviously, but maybe it strengthens the team in the long run. Something like Seabrook & an AHLer to the NYI for Travis Hamonic & Cal Clutterbuck. Harmonic is $3m per year cheaper than Seabrook and Clutterbucks $2.8m salary expires at the end of the season but he can provide some depth in the meantime.

If the cap rises by $3m, that salary difference would be enough to resign Panarin and fill Clutterbuck's roster spot with a minimum salary guy - maybe Patrick Sharp on a discount.

Thoughts? Crucifixions?
- matt_ahrens

Seabrook is part of the vore

Highest penalized 40-goal scorer. Potted 44, with 303 PIM.

Then to top it off, he became only the 2nd Hawk ever
- blackhawk24[at the time] to score 50+ goals in a season, during '82-'83.

EDIT: I gotta check now. The three fights in one game may be true as well. In that day, it earned you a one game suspension as well. Thee goals amd three fights? Don't think Mr. hockey even did that!

Being a long time fan, of course growing up in that era,obviously Bobby Hull was my all time favorite, after that, this new era included, Al Secord is my all time favorite Hawk, to this day, they have never replaced what he brought every night, you can have the play when Ifeellike it temperamental piss asses of this era,give me Big Al any day! Just too bad that team in the 80's got so close but never got to hoist the chalice! Being a season tix holder since 72-73 , I was lucky enough to be at almost all of those home games!
All I'm asking Stan Bowman for is give us 1player that even remotely resembles Big Al! I still wear his jersey to most home games, haven't bought any of the little candy asses jerseys ,almost got a Saad 1 and then he was gone!
I have to admit, when he played here, I was a big fan of Bob Probert also! R I P Probie!

Are the Habs in on Hudler? (No idea how reputable this article is)
http://www.digitaljournal...-canadiens/article/472953

Yeah I wonder too, but how do you? Rewrite the rule to read, when you draft a player, he is the team's exclusive property forever?
(the ironc thing is this loophole cames form trying to close the other one...Mike Van Ryn was drafted by the New Jersey Devils in the first round, In June 2000, through a loophole, Van Ryn signed as a free agent with the St. Louis Blues, because he waited two years after leaviung school early to do so. NHL teams retain the rights of drafted college players until they leave the school. Van Ryn challenged this practice in court and an arbitrator ruled that a player drafted off a college team could play one season of major junior hockey and then become a free agent. Thus after two years at the University of Michigan, Van Ryn went on to play one year for Sarnia Sting, and then became a free agent, which allowed him to sign a three-year deal with St. Louis.)

The reason the rule was rewritten to the current form is

a) the NHL figured the teams would have spent time and $ wooing them helping them evaluate their college games, and the players would feel kinship and gratitude to their "family."

b) the rule stopped a trend of college kids leaving school and going back to amateur leagues to get free from the slave owner (team that drafted them) and the GIANT bonuses we saw being thrown at these college gusy and they crapped the bed quickly as pros...i am talking NOT above the propects who looked like potential first round guys, but the group that grew, grew their game, and improved their play...

c) After four years a college, not enough of the college players past over would become potential impact players even on the bottom end of rosters to warrant concern.
(What changed was the CAP morphed into a easy nice way to manage CAP budgets.)

d) "yeah, they court system told us where they stand, we will let them be free, after their 4th college year", so it seems to be a sticky wicket to attempt to try to close the loophole.

The nature of drafting 18 year olds is never gonnas be an exact science, the draft age is NOT going up to 19 or 20 (with first and 2nd round exceptions, my idea), so you are going to continue to see a smaller number of kids not drafted in the FIRST round improve to where they CAN sell their upside on the open market. Those other formerly drafted kids, mentioned as not Jimmy Vesey are NOT Jimmy Vesey level gems. (http://www.thehockeynews....ts-not-named-jimmy-vesey/)

I totally agree that the real loser when a Vesey propsect emerges is the team that takes him in a round other than the first, because they lost a pick.
The league needs to amend the current compensation to read teams losing a 4th yr. college grade get a compensation pick in the same slot a round later. But I would add all 4th yr. college grads who sin before the end of August of that year, and then you are actually giving extra picks for players that have garnished true interest from other clubs, not 6 month later fills made to cover AHL injuries.


Some ex-player reps suggest that teams take a hard line two & half year in, and outright sit the kids and agents down and get their intentions known even if they have to sign them early TO AVOID teams being "surprised" so they can plan team organizational needs around these departures...
- wiz1901

t
How about we do away with the draft entirely, and let the free market do its work. Curt Flood ended the reserve clause in baseball, someone should challenge the draft in court.

In no occupation, outside USA team sports, is the new employee's work location stipulated to them. Engineering students coming out of Purdue can go to work anywhere they'd like, to anyone who offers them the best deal. Same with Harvard MBAs, etc. Adam Smith is a hell of a lot smarter than Gary Bettman.

And no team should be rewarded for losing.

Even with no Vesey and no Hudler there is still the option of spreading out the firepower on lines 1-3 as a temporary solution as the season goes on until a move is made for the playoff run:

Schmaltz-Toews-Kane
Panarin-Anisimov-Hinostroza
Panik-Kruger-Hossa
Desjardins-Rasmussen-Tootoo/Motte/Hartman/Lundberg

Even with no Vesey and no Hudler there is still the option of spreading out the firepower on lines 1-3 as a temporary solution as the season goes on until a move is made for the playoff run:

Schmaltz-Toews-Kane
Panarin-Anisimov-Hinostroza
Panik-Kruger-Hossa
Desjardins-Rasmussen-Tootoo/Motte/Hartman/Lundberg
- SimpleJack

So McNeill, Kero and Baun don't even need to show up for training camp?

If McNeill can't make this team out of camp, he"ll get the Jeremy Morin change of address treatment.

So McNeill, Kero and Baun don't even need to show up for training camp?

If McNeill can't make this team out of camp, he"ll get the Jeremy Morin change of address treatment.
- RickJ

So many possibilities for the bottom 6, its hard to keep track and remember to list every single one when trying to project a rough lineup.

Hossa is not the one I'd be concerned about, it's Q adapting how he plays his hand based on what he has to work with. I also agree with those who suggest Hossa could be a great 3rd liner in the coming years.
- 6628

Agreed. I'm of the opinion that Hossa will play solid hockey until he retires. He won't fizzle out or play so bad he'll be forced to retire early. And the way he'll do this is eventually make his way to the 3rd line as a great checking forward.

What's starting to decline is his scoring ability. Definitely no longer a PPG player or even a .75 PPG player, and he's lucky if he can eclipse 50 points. He could turn in another 50+ point season but the stars need to align in terms of linemates and health. But what has never changed is his tenacity on the puck and ability to be a premiere defensive forward who should have but never has garnered a Selke nomination in his career.

Bottom line, I'd much rather have Hossa "on the decline" than a purely offensive player who doesn't play defense (or who never played it at least decently). Once their offense falls off the cliff, they're useless to a team.

Even with no Vesey and no Hudler there is still the option of spreading out the firepower on lines 1-3 as a temporary solution as the season goes on until a move is made for the playoff run:

Schmaltz-Toews-Kane
Panarin-Anisimov-Hinostroza
Panik-Kruger-Hossa
Desjardins-Rasmussen-Tootoo/Motte/Hartman/Lundberg
- SimpleJack

I'm supportive of this idea to spread out the top players across lines 1-3. The only way this would work is if there is a top-6 RW to replace Hossa and a top-6 LW to play with Toews.

If this lineup strategy were to ever play out, your 3rd and 4th lines are what I have in mind. I'd put Schmaltz on the 2nd line, though, since he seems more of a playmaker like Kane and it would be better to split up playmakers so one is on each of lines 1 and 2.

Then 1LW would need to be someone like Hossa or Saad. Someone who is great on the forecheck, great at digging out pucks, great at cycling, and great at creating space for the likes of Toews and Kane to display their offensive skills.

Nurse is interesting, depending on who else the Blackhawks have to take in return. The idea is to get the cap space to sign Panarin so that's somewhat limiting. And, if another defenseman isn't included, it might take a few years for Nurse to be legit top 4 on a cup contender.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of Clutterbuck but he might bring some grit.
- matt_ahrens

I'm horrible at balancing the cap so what you described makes sense in terms of getting a return on a Seabrook trade to shave salary in order to re-sign Panarin.

I agree with anyone who says Seabrook is part of the core. He definitely is. However, the time will come when the core needs to evolve and be redefined OR the team needs to draw a line in the sand to say the current core will remain the core until they retire which will mean younger players who deserve to be in the core (i.e. Panarin) will be playing for other teams because we simply cannot afford them. The latter is likely not going to happen so our sentimental attachment to players is going to take major hits in upcoming years.

I'll admit, it'll sting if we have to trade Seabrook or Crawford to make room for younger core members. But then again, I'm used to it by now. Heck, it hurt when Sullivan got traded to the Predators out of the blue for a few draft picks.

Agreed. I'm of the opinion that Hossa will play solid hockey until he retires. He won't fizzle out or play so bad he'll be forced to retire early. And the way he'll do this is eventually make his way to the 3rd line as a great checking forward.

What's starting to decline is his scoring ability. Definitely no longer a PPG player or even a .75 PPG player, and he's lucky if he can eclipse 50 points. He could turn in another 50+ point season but the stars need to align in terms of linemates and health. But what has never changed is his tenacity on the puck and ability to be a premiere defensive forward who should have but never has garnered a Selke nomination in his career.

Bottom line, I'd much rather have Hossa "on the decline" than a purely offensive player who doesn't play defense (or who never played it at least decently). Once their offense falls off the cliff, they're useless to a team.
- AEL_Fox

The "Hossa Problem" (IMO) has nothing to do with his hockey skills:

After making $7.9MM for the past 7 years, plus another $4MM in the coming season (a total of $59MM over 8 seasons) - is he going to want to play for only $1MM per year going forward?

So with Vessey going to the Rangers and Hudler seeming to be too exepensive, what is plan C? Is there anyone left in the bargain bin worth bringing in or are the Hawks better off seeing what the kids can do?

The "Hossa Problem" (IMO) has nothing to do with his hockey skills:

After making $7.9MM for the past 7 years, plus another $4MM in the coming season (a total of $59MM over 8 seasons) - is he going to want to play for only $1MM per year going forward?
- StLBravesFan

Sorry, I should've been more clear in my previous post that I wasn't referring to Hossa's contract numbers. Instead, I was talking about past posts in not just this thread but earlier threads too regarding Hossa's decline in play and whether he should play on the 3rd line instead of staying on the 1st line.

You definitely don't want me managing the cap. if I were GM, I'd pull a Tallon and hand out $3 million contracts to players like candy.

So with Vessey going to the Rangers and Hudler seeming to be too exepensive, what is plan C? Is there anyone left in the bargain bin worth bringing in or are the Hawks better off seeing what the kids can do?
- pjm901

If Hudler doesn't sign Stan will likely sign a couple veterans to PTOs as insurance policies during training camp. I think Higgins or Korpikoski could be servicable bottom 6 wingers if needed.

I'm horrible at balancing the cap so what you described makes sense in terms of getting a return on a Seabrook trade to shave salary in order to re-sign Panarin.

I agree with anyone who says Seabrook is part of the core. He definitely is. However, the time will come when the core needs to evolve and be redefined OR the team needs to draw a line in the sand to say the current core will remain the core until they retire which will mean younger players who deserve to be in the core (i.e. Panarin) will be playing for other teams because we simply cannot afford them. The latter is likely not going to happen so our sentimental attachment to players is going to take major hits in upcoming years.

I'll admit, it'll sting if we have to trade Seabrook or Crawford to make room for younger core members. But then again, I'm used to it by now. Heck, it hurt when Sullivan got traded to the Predators out of the blue for a few draft picks.
- AEL_Fox

My wife got me a game used Sullivan jersey. The day it arrived i tried it on and my wife got a horrified look on her face. I told her i thought it looked good on me and she just pointed to the sports ticker on the screen saying he was traded

So with Vessey going to the Rangers and Hudler seeming to be too exepensive, what is plan C? Is there anyone left in the bargain bin worth bringing in or are the Hawks better off seeing what the kids can do?
- pjm901

Play the youth and pray that someone like Motte or Fortin (if signed) can play up to AT LEAST the second line. Not top notch line players, but the Hawks gotta see when camp and the season starts. Then trade someone that none of us will probably like to see go for a 1/2 LW at the TDL for help in the postseason. That is most likely plan C... At least from my amateur point of view.

If Hudler doesn't sign Stan will likely sign a couple veterans to PTOs as insurance policies during training camp. I think Higgins or Korpikoski could be servicable bottom 6 wingers if needed.
- DarthKane

The hawks have plenty of bottom six wingers...or, guys who could fill those lines.

They're short a #1LW ...or, a #2LW, if you move Panarin to Toews line....I don't see anyone off the scrap heap who can play with the captain.

We all have opinions and I respect that (maybe).

But I am getting a bug up my butt when I keep reading about "doing something about Marian Hossa."
I won't compare him to Jagr but his last two teams wished Jagr played at both ends and feet along with his deadly offensive prowess.

He seems to be a problem for some here.NOT ME.

Being one sick freak, I very recently watched the last two Blackhawk Stanley Cup marches in the Springtimes of 2015 & 2016.

Nowhere did I see any drop off,especially in his skating giddeee-up in Hossa.

There seems to be this agist attitude that he can't play, because he's old. I suggest you watch the example he brings with his intensity, commitment, and ability to continue to play a solid 200 foot game.

The hawks tried to pull a fast one on the league when they signed him and the league made sure the teams that set up contracts in the way his was, that there was less of an out as the player gets older and reaches a stage where he actually cannot play at a champions-level.
And a trade of Hossa hurts if he doesn't like the new surrounding and retires prematurely. The Blackhawks would suffer the CAP consequences not his new team.
BUT... with that said, and his cap hit remains the same, but his actually money drops to 4 million this season, and 1 million the remaining four years. The is how the team can pay out the the incentives if their other players reach them.
A lot can happen in five more seasons, but it hasn't happened yet in my humble opinion.
I just don't see anybody acquired in trades or brought in from the farm, applying the pressure to take his minutes / line position away. They have had plenty of prospects drafted who play RW.
So before you relegate his effectiveness, accept the fact so far no one has bested him.
- wiz1901

Thank you, Wiz.

It's funny how an "idea" can get lift on internet message boards alone.

This, for me, reached the point of insanity when I read a couple of weeks ago on Twitter, a fairly respected ember of the Chicago hockey media suggesting lineups where Hossa would be moved the third line (because, after all, "it's what everyone thinks should happen, right?"), and he would be replaced by Vince Hinostroza—a guy who scored 18 goals in the AHL last year.

OK, this is insane.

I mean, yeah, if you acquired a guy like, meh, say, Loui Eriksson to go with Patrick Kane, then you have some starboard-side wingers that give you the luxury of planting a Marian Hossa on the third line.

But the Hawks don't have that guy or anything close to him.

This whole notion of a forced "semi-retirement" for Hossa (right now) is asinine.

And here's why:

1) the aforementioned point, other than Patrick Kane, who's a better right wing on the roster or in the pipeline? Answer: no one.
2) Hossa had an off year last year. So did Toews. And both had a revolving door of guys at LW on their line who were all out of position or playing over their heads.
3) I have also heard that Toews (at least) was playing on fumes much of last year after the Cup run in 2015 and a very abbreviated and not productive summer of rest and conditioning. Same is probably true (maybe moreso) of a 37 year old Hossa who does his summer training halfway across the world.
4) Hossa is marvelously well-conditioned athlete, with the right genetics to have a productive career into his late 30's/early 40's. He obviously has a high percentage of "white muscle" (fast-twitch muscle fiber relative to slow twitch), not unlike Nolan Ryan, Teemu Selanne and others.

You know what, Hossa may see some "third line" minutes this year. But unless someone REALLY steps up and makes things go with Toews (against top 4 NHL defenders and shutdown lines), don't count on it lasting long. And remember, there's already a big hole on Toews' LEFT side to begin with.

Play the youth and pray that someone like Motte or Fortin (if signed) can play up to AT LEAST the second line. Not top notch line players, but the Hawks gotta see when camp and the season starts. Then trade someone that none of us will probably like to see go for a 1/2 LW at the TDL for help in the postseason. That is most likely plan C... At least from my amateur point of view.
- 93Joe

Motte . . . maybe . . . maybe . . . if the Hawks are very lucky, can be a reliable top 6 forward this year.

Fortin is 19 years old and had a good prospect camp. As did Ryan Garlock, Adam Berti, igor Makarov, Alex Kojevnikov, etc at the same age. In other words, if Fortin is what you're counting on, look out below, the wheels are off.

I've been out all weekend and am not sure if this has been touched on. Last week I noticed a bunch of posters projecting results this coming season based on results from last season. I don't think that is completely accurate. Even if they had signed this college hot shot the best thing about this summer is that it came early. Plenty of rest for Toews and especially Hossa as well as the rest of them. I think just based on that the team will be a little more perked up this year. Add a few guys that are hungry and you have the making for a competitive team. Hossa is not the one I'd be concerned about, it's Q adapting how he plays his hand based on what he has to work with. I also agree with those who suggest Hossa could be a great 3rd liner in the coming years.
- 6628

Good post and pretty much agreed.

Some of the line combos being suggested on this thread are really just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

So you bump Kane up to play with Toews—OK, that could def help Toews get going. Bu then you play Hinostroza with Panarin and Anisimov?

Well, then Panarin has to TOTALLY carry that line, and his numbers will go down. And no Kane on that line. So you still have one reliable scoring line (where Kane is essentially), and the same problem you had last year—just worse, because your scoring forward depth is worse.

So it does ALL come back to Q. If they don't add another winger who can play top 6 and contribute, what does Q do with what he has?

I think a lot of posters here are pinning a lot of hope on 19-21 year olds, like 2-3 of them, making an impact on this team. And we are not talking about guys like Kane and Toews taken in the top 5 in the draft who have elite ability coming in to the league—or enough of it to assimilate regardless.

I am still holding out hope Bowman has a rabbit up his sleeve. We'll see.

Good post and pretty much agreed.

Some of the line combos being suggested on this thread are really just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

So you bump Kane up to play with Toews—OK, that could def help Toews get going. Bu then you play Hinostroza with Panarin and Anisimov?

Well, then Panarin has to TOTALLY carry that line, and his numbers will go down. And no Kane on that line. So you still have one reliable scoring line (where Kane is essentially), and the same problem you had last year—just worse, because your scoring forward depth is worse.

So it does ALL come back to Q. If they don't add another winger who can play top 6 and contribute, what does Q do with what he has?

I think a lot of posters here are pinning a lot of hope on 19-21 year olds, like 2-3 of them, making an impact on this team. And we are not talking about guys like Kane and Toews taken in the top 5 in the draft who have elite ability coming in to the league—or enough of it to assimilate regardless.

I am still holding out hope Bowman has a rabbit up his sleeve. We'll see.
- John Jaeckel

I hope so, too, JJ, but not sure where it would be coming from. I think the plan will have to be 1) hope the core comes back energized and hungry from a longer off-season; and 2) count on the coaching staff to develop some of their younger players.

The thing that makes me the most optimistic is that many of the other teams in the West did not improve either.

Good post and pretty much agreed.

Some of the line combos being suggested on this thread are really just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

So you bump Kane up to play with Toews—OK, that could def help Toews get going. Bu then you play Hinostroza with Panarin and Anisimov?

Well, then Panarin has to TOTALLY carry that line, and his numbers will go down. And no Kane on that line. So you still have one reliable scoring line (where Kane is essentially), and the same problem you had last year—just worse, because your scoring forward depth is worse.

So it does ALL come back to Q. If they don't add another winger who can play top 6 and contribute, what does Q do with what he has?

I think a lot of posters here are pinning a lot of hope on 19-21 year olds, like 2-3 of them, making an impact on this team. And we are not talking about guys like Kane and Toews taken in the top 5 in the draft who have elite ability coming in to the league—or enough of it to assimilate regardless.

I am still holding out hope Bowman has a rabbit up his sleeve. We'll see.
- John Jaeckel

If the bolded happened, do you think it would reduce what his next contract would be?

That Russian line could payoff as Yak might turn the corner playing with AA and Panarin.

I think you could land Yak for a 3rd and maybe Sveds.
- z1990z

Nope, you could not.

and how do you pay him his bump up from the 2.5 he makes now and who knows if there are bonuses tied to that deal that he might reach as a Blackhawk?

(or is the plan to have him be Las Vegas bait. and expendable?)

and another reality check is Hudler made 4 million at his last contracts end and is out there mostly because he wants ballpark 3 million.

When you start to get up there and see the bigger dollar long term deals closing on you, you look to a retirement cushion with ever short deal, not necessarily a chance at the Cup.

I still cannot figure out why Vesey goes where the centre position can't get him the puck as well as most of the other teams.
Everything seems tied to he is convinced he will be productive & successful all around and the fact NYRangers will have boatloads to pay him later, even if he is a average NHL scorer, because their cupboard at forward of scorers seems pretty dry.

You ever been to NYC?
My daughter lived there for college and a dozen years after. I loved the action, the regular people that road on the subway next to me, and the toughness and tenderness that encompossed their being, but...
No matter how high up your apartment is you hear the city murmur.
Granted Chicago had the same morning awakening sounds, but I don't know if the kid is ignorant of the cost differences, the bustle, or the mininal chances down the road of winning something.