Dineen leading the way for the Avs job?

Was told Kevin Dineen had 3 1/2-hour interview with #Avs. That update will be added to this story: https://t.co/PUZUNQw4gM @tfrei

— Mike Chambers (@MikeChambers) August 23, 2016

3.5hrs...thats one long ass time
- DDM-Coga

Dineen probably deserves a shot....Another in a long line of guys fired by Tallon as he puked players to bottom out.

you gave the avs permission to talk to him....which seems crazy to me for an in division team
- DDM-Coga

Most times if considered a step up guys will receive permission.
Especially a veteran who was a former head coach.

I doubt Panik will be on the 4th line, but if he is that means the team had 2-3 rookies step up in a big way.
- DarthKane

Totally agree. If Panik is on the 4th line, then the top 3 lines have really solidified and are banging on all cylinders. In other words, we got our forward depth back.

Neither did the Pens. Then Daley fell into their lap, made a coaching move, and brought up 3 rookies two of which played top 6. You know the rest of the story.

There are no answers on August 22nd or November 19th. The scouts, front office and Q have to find answers as the season progresses. It ain't how good you are in August, November or March but how good you are in the Spring.
- Mr Ricochet

Good perspective.

To take your perspective in a somewhat different direction, what you shared is why I think admiring and even trying to emulate the Penguins model can be both good and bad. Having (a) over-developed prospects like Sheary, Rust, and Kuhnhackl get called up to complement the core players, (b) a new coach like Sullivan be successful part-way through the season and have the team gel at the right moment, and (c) Murray emerge as the #1 goalie to overtake Fleury and lead them to the Stanley Cup title seem like the Penguins hit the jackpot and will continue to cash in for years to come. Evidently there are some things to learn from their success, which is a good thing.

But if you were to ask hockey fans if a lineup with Sheary, Rust, Kunhhackl, and Murray as key players would win the Stanley Cup, most fans would say no way or at least highly unlikely. And that's where it can be a bad thing to try and duplicate the Penguins' blue print because how much of their success was catching lightning in a bottle? Are they built to last? We shall see, but I'll be more impressed by the likes of Sheary, Rust, Kuhnhackl, and Murray if they can play just as strong this season and beyond. The same could be said of their vaunted HBK line. Hagelin, Bonino, and Kessel clicked down the stretch but that may not necessarily translate into dominance this year. What worked a few months ago may not work once the puck drops again.

What does this mean for the Hawks? Exactly what Ricochet stated about not having all the answers now but evolving the team over the course of the season to construct a winner. So the exact formula that the Penguins had to win the Cup isn't necessarily the road to the Cup for all other teams. Instead, the lesson to be learned is that the team that has the higher chance to win is the one that evolves by continually maximizing what it has (i.e. current team and prospects) and what it can get a hold of (i.e. free agents and trades) while having the coaching staff to employ the systems and say the right things to players to make each of them go.

The one problem I see with the letting the young players fight for a roster spot theory/practice as we get to camp is this:

Hinostroza is a Center. schmaltz is a Center. Motte is a winger (likely not a top 6 winger to start in the NHL), Hartman is a 4th line banger.

Those are your 4 favorites in the Horse race up front.

So we are back to Panik by default as a top 6 left wing.

I will throw this out there. Now that Vesey is not coming to the Hawks, Ken Holland GM of Detroit has stated that he is willing to trade a forward because he has a surplus of NHL ready forwards for an NHL defenseman.

The Hawks have a surplus of those from 5 through 10. Might there be a match ?

I think its just good business practice, you don't want to be known as an organization who stops their staff from getting coaching opportunities.
- DDM-Coga

I imagine when he was hired they agreed to let him go to anyone if he had and opportunity.

League is getting littered with ex Hawks exec's and coaches.

Hope that means you know who isn't coming back as an Asst. Coach.

The one problem I see with the letting the young players fight for a roster spot theory/practice as we get to camp is this:

Hinostroza is a Center. schmaltz is a Center. Motte is a winger (likely not a top 6 winger to start in the NHL), Hartman is a 4th line banger.

Those are your 4 favorites in the Horse race up front.

So we are back to Panik by default as a top 6 left wing.

I will throw this out there. Now that Vesey is not coming to the Hawks, Ken Holland GM of Detroit has stated that he is willing to trade a forward because he has a surplus of NHL ready forwards for an NHL defenseman.

The Hawks have a surplus of those from 5 through 10. Might there be a match ?
- Omahawk

would seem to be a logical trade partner... actually talked about this with a buddy before all the Vesey stuff. Could Athanasiou be had???

would seem to be a logical trade partner... actually talked about this with a buddy before all the Vesey stuff. Could Athanasiou be had???
- gnosox1986

It's going to take a lot to get that guy. I don't see that happening.

It's going to take a lot to get that guy. I don't see that happening.
- 6628

From the Hawks side, you probably offer up Gus or Svedberg Plus something, but from DET, the conversation probably starts with TVR.

It's going to take a lot to get that guy. I don't see that happening.
- 6628

I don't either.

Neither did the Pens. Then Daley fell into their lap, made a coaching move, and brought up 3 rookies two of which played top 6. You know the rest of the story.

There are no answers on August 22nd or November 19th. The scouts, front office and Q have to find answers as the season progresses. It ain't how good you are in August, November or March but how good you are in the Spring.
- Mr Ricochet

Wholeheartedly agree (with 95% of this).

But the things you refer to Rico, are almost ALL personnel/GM moves.

Also, again, broken record time, the Pens rookies were ALL 23 years old with a lot of pro experience. The Hawks Great Youth Movement? The higher upside prospects are 20-21 with next to no pro experience, and a guy named Hinostroza.

There is typically a BIG difference between a 20-21 year old player and one who is 23. Compounded by the pro experience (or lack thereof) angle.

Maybe could have been but he never scored 20 and dished out 200 hits while playing only forward.
- Al

My first thought was no, he didn't get 20 goals.

But let's be honest. He has more offensive skill/impact than Ladd and Brouwer combined. And 50 of his hits equal 100 of Ladd's in terms of their physical and psychological impact within a game.

Minor baggage, weight issues, defensive issues and all, Dustin Byfuglien is a rare talent in a lot of ways and a guy who can have a major impact on games and series.

From the Hawks side, you probably offer up Gus or Svedberg Plus something, but from DET, the conversation probably starts with TVR.
- gnosox1986

That kid has speed like few guys have. I haven't seen him enough to say if he has a head for the game, but what I have seen is impressive. I assume it's going to take a lot to pry the kid out of Detroit, and Gus, Sved or TVR aren't going to get it done. At least says me. Hope I'm wrong.

The one problem I see with the letting the young players fight for a roster spot theory/practice as we get to camp is this:

Hinostroza is a Center. schmaltz is a Center. Motte is a winger (likely not a top 6 winger to start in the NHL), Hartman is a 4th line banger.

Those are your 4 favorites in the Horse race up front.

So we are back to Panik by default as a top 6 left wing.

I will throw this out there. Now that Vesey is not coming to the Hawks, Ken Holland GM of Detroit has stated that he is willing to trade a forward because he has a surplus of NHL ready forwards for an NHL defenseman.

The Hawks have a surplus of those from 5 through 10. Might there be a match ?
- Omahawk

The Hawks have dangled TVR this offseason. He has value as a solid #5/utility defenseman who is cost-certain. I don't think he, alone, brings you back a top 6 winger, so Bowman might have to package something else (maybe Svedberg?).

But I think a scenario like this is still plausible/possible.

That kid has speed like few guys have. I haven't seen him enough to say if he has a head for the game, but what I have seen is impressive. I assume it's going to take a lot to pry the kid out of Detroit, and Gus, Sved or TVR aren't going to get it done. At least says me. Hope I'm wrong.
- 6628

Agreed its unlikely and for sure not a 1-1 deal. But on a slow Tuesday morning, I can dream a little. It would likely need be a 3-1 type deal, where DET get TVR and a couple more pieces...

But you never know what Stan might concoct and how willing Holland would be to play ball.

Agreed its unlikely and for sure not a 1-1 deal. But on a slow Tuesday morning, I can dream a little. It would likely need be a 3-1 type deal, where DET get TVR and a couple more pieces...

But you never know what Stan might concoct and how willing Holland would be to play ball.
- gnosox1986

Detroit really is stacked with quality young forwards. If I'm Stanley, I might be wiling to package say Forsling with TVR for a guy like Tatar, who would be a nice fit with the Hawks. Dunno if that's enough for Holland or not, depends on their scouting of Forsling.

Bear in mind also, a deal like this is doable at any time up to 3/1, assuming the cap space works.

[quote=Omahawk]The one problem I see with the letting the young players fight for a roster spot theory/practice as we get to camp is this:

Hinostroza is a Center. schmaltz is a Center. Motte is a winger (likely not a top 6 winger to start in the NHL), Hartman is a 4th line banger.

Those are your 4 favorites in the Horse race up front.

So we are back to Panik by default as a top 6 left wing. /quote]

Schmaltz is a wing-centre.
The question will be is he up for the task to body up along the wall.
He saw lots of time way from the face-off dot.
Hinostroza projects to all three forward positions and quite frankly might be in over his head as an NHL cnetre from day one, this wing.
The Swedish vet wasn't signed to make meatballs for Hammer, so expect Martin Lundberg to play some wing too.

Detroit really is stacked with quality young forwards. If I'm Stanley, I might be wiling to package say Forsling with TVR for a guy like Tatar, who would be a nice fit with the Hawks. Dunno if that's enough for Holland or not, depends on their scouting of Forsling.
- John Jaeckel

Get hold of yourself John!!

I need to see Gustav Forsling up close before I send him AND Tvr packing for a forward we will lose to Las Vegas....

If you know you aren't resigning Panarin long term, THEN you push the panic button and deal two defenders away for this 25 yr. midget sniper, who will want more that the 2.75 mil he makes when his contract ends at the end of the year.

(We have are own farm midgets.)

It is not to say Tatar doesn't have qualities that work, or upside, but he certainly took a step back last season in his production, as did most wings.
Or to say, JJ, that you didn't carefully set up a nice return in the 2 for 1, because you offered a now defender, a furture upsdie skating shooting defender for a guy whose past two season numbers work against the team in arbitration.

and here's the other thing, my own personal opinion:
I always thought Tatar should have be playing his original position as a centre when the wings brought him in, but maybe he failed any auditions there, but dunno, didn't keep up on it.
I never thought he projected to either wing playing anywhere.
(if you wanted to flame me, now is when you say "well, he scored 50 goals and 51 assists the last year as a wing.")

I still see him as a offensive end scorer, and not ready for the Q system, but I dunno on that one either.
Toughness may be an issue with him, but has touch, instincts, controls the puck well, but is more quick than fast. Not a puck pursuit guy or a guy who wins on the wall, but does set up teammates with first step quickness.

Detroit really is stacked with quality young forwards. If I'm Stanley, I might be wiling to package say Forsling with TVR for a guy like Tatar, who would be a nice fit with the Hawks. Dunno if that's enough for Holland or not, depends on their scouting of Forsling.

Bear in mind also, a deal like this is doable at any time up to 3/1, assuming the cap space works.
- John Jaeckel

Tatar is in the last year of a $2.75M AAV contract, and is an RFA. He certainly can help with the LW problem, but that seems a high price to pay for someone who may only be a one-year fix.

ETA: any thoughts on Pulkkinen? He's inexperienced, but he plays left wing and could be had for a lower price than Tatar.

Get hold of yourself John!!

I need to see Gustav Forsling up close before I send him AND Tvr packing for a forward we will lose to Las Vegas....

If you know you aren't resigning Panarin long term, THEN you push the panic button and deal two defenders away for this midget.

(We have are own farm midgets)
- wiz1901

Gus might have some value since he does not need to be protected in the EXP draft and is also eligible to be sent down one more year. If you traded him for a guy that has to clear waivers and is EXP draft eligible. Ie maybe you get the better player but they get a guy they are not going to lose this year or next summer.

Another dynamic to the "youth" movement is that the Hawks practice the least amount of any team in the NHL. At least that is my understanding. I would imagine it would be harder for rookies to acclimate to Q's system given the demand he places on defense and the limited practice time during the season. If rookies don't pick up on stuff right away they will have a hard time doing so with such limited practice. Maybe that is why so many find Q's doghouse.

I think that is another thing that needs to be kept in mind when talking about the Pens model for last year's cup. I don't see the veterans on this roster being all too happy if suddenly a lot more practices are scheduled so young guys can learn the system and acclimate.

My first thought was no, he didn't get 20 goals.

But let's be honest. He has more offensive skill/impact than Ladd and Brouwer combined. And 50 of his hits equal 100 of Ladd's in terms of their physical and psychological impact within a game.

Minor baggage, weight issues, defensive issues and all, Dustin Byfuglien is a rare talent in a lot of ways and a guy who can have a major impact on games and series.
- John Jaeckel

You know I'm a fan but can't consider the big guy a forward untill he plays there for an entire season. . A 25 minute a night dman can be thought to be more valuable than a power forward but in the Peg it seems to me there is a real need for Buff to play up front. So I have to think at this point he just doesn't want to be a forward.

I didn't count how many forwards delivered at least 200 hits and scored at least 20 goals last season, but I doubt it was much more than 5.

Detroit really is stacked with quality young forwards. If I'm Stanley, I might be wiling to package say Forsling with TVR for a guy like Tatar, who would be a nice fit with the Hawks. Dunno if that's enough for Holland or not, depends on their scouting of Forsling.

Bear in mind also, a deal like this is doable at any time up to 3/1, assuming the cap space works.
- John Jaeckel

If you give up both then I'm thinking the defense this season probably is no better than
last year.....That's a problem.

Gus might have some value since he does not need to be protected in the EXP draft and is also eligible to be sent down one more year. If you traded him for a guy that has to clear waivers and is EXP draft eligible. Ie maybe you get the better player but they get a guy they are not going to lose this year or next summer.
- kmw4631

Exactly why I am not throwing him in any trades before we get to see if he is truly as dynamic a player against NHL competition.

Another dynamic to the "youth" movement is that the Hawks practice the least amount of any team in the NHL. At least that is my understanding. I would imagine it would be harder for rookies to acclimate to Q's system given the demand he places on defense and the limited practice time during the season. If rookies don't pick up on stuff right away they will have a hard time doing so with such limited practice. Maybe that is why so many find Q's doghouse.

I think that is another thing that needs to be kept in mind when talking about the Pens model for last year's cup. I don't see the veterans on this roster being all too happy if suddenly a lot more practices are scheduled so young guys can learn the system and acclimate.
- bhawks2241

Do you think Q would schedule practices for the young guys, and have the vets on a rotating schedule? If they had all the young guys practice, and threw in Toews, Hossa and Keith, the next practice you could have AA, Kane and Seabrook, etc. That way the vets don't get burned out, but the young guys can learn the system.