You'll have 2-4 as the first pairing...
And Campbell - Kempny?
And then you have to hope that between TVR, Gustafsson and Rozy you have 2 every-day serviceable guys...

Then you have to hope either Pokka or Forsling can make an impact in the next 1-2 years.
- busmaster

I guess I miised the part of Seabrook disappearing...

I believe the brought Kempny in to play the left side.

I like the chances of Forsling over Pokka, but the quicker we get a look see the faster we know if we are delusional.

1) Interesting question. He can pass as well as shoot. But it did not hurt his totals last year at all having 88 on the opposite flank. So "drive scoring"? I guess, but not lie that line delivered last year. I would try Hossa on the other side of him and AA, honestly. Bump Kane up. THAT seems to even things about a bit and then maybe you can afford "audition" a kid on 19 and 88's LW.
2) Also interesting because I have heard whispers about acquiring another C. So you put Kruger between 72 and 88, and AA on Toews' left with 81? I know the "oh my God, Kruger can't score" litany starts about . . . now . . . but . . . but . . . his game is kinda similar to AA's and he can pass the puck (underrated there) and play with skill guys.
- John Jaeckel

From your lips to Q's ears.

https://www.capfriendly.c...m/armchair-gm/team/181731

I know, I know, Q would never let mash not be up, but we can dream can't we!

Looking strictly at salary vs quality-of-replacements, I'd say Seabs and CC need to leave if the Hawks are going to sign 72 and compete for the foreseeable future.
- busmaster

Now I found it.

I'll take Seabrook & CC over Panarin anytime.

There is no evidence to suggest Panarin is a stand alone impact player, but the evidence is there about them.

You wanna cause his lofty $$$$ expectations to come down to Earth?

Play him elsewhere.
and see if
in fact he is a generator without the gifts of the core.

(But we know you don't break up the best line in hockey last year, you don't trade AA or move Artemi to the third line...

there is a better chance kruger is the starting left wing, with Martin Lundberg hold down the PK and lower centre position.
or Lundberg on LEFT wing with Toews. (Yeah I know he plays mostly LhRW), or
Nick Schmaltz or McNeill or Motter...

Now I found it.

I'll take Seabrook & CC over Panarin anytime.

There is no evidence to suggest Panarin is a stand alone impact player, but the evidence is there about them.

You wanna cause his lofty $$$$ expectations to come down to Earth?

Play him elsewhere.
and see if
in fact he is a generator without the gifts of the core.

(But we know you don't break up the best line in hockey last year, you don't trade AA or move Artemi to the third line...
- wiz1901[/quote]


I Wonder

By who?

I think Quenneville may have alluded to some altered role for him in the future—which is a given.

But even if Q was referring then to this year, might that have been based on the assumption that some other asset(s) would be acquired?

I still haven't heard or seen the case for a likely replacement from among the Hawks' current assets.

Hinostroza? So how does that improve that line? I just don't see it. I guarantee you this: Most NHL GMs, coaches and defensemen are laughing at that idea.

Schmaltz? Motte? A 20- and 21-year old respectively who have not played one game in the NHL?

It's so easy to place "pieces" on the game board and assume because of some mostly "internet scouting" reports, or some sidetalk at a fan convention, that a kid with zero or minimal NHL experience will just step in and be the player he is projected to be, really at least a couple of seasons from now, with no mistakes or learning curve.

Realistically, we know Schmaltz (20) is not real big, zero NHL experience, has shown some good hands and two-way play in the USHL and college.

Motte (21) grades out as a good two-way player (in college) who had one year where he scored well. Troy Brouwer, just one example, averaged 35-40 goals a year in junior AND the AHL, he's never cracked 25 in the NHL and it is debatable whether he is a 2nd or 3rd line winger (after much overall improvement in his game) today.

Hinostroza scored 18 in the A last year. OK.

It just seems the "Hossa is deteriorated" narrative has gotten waaaayyyyy out of control when we assume any of those guys will be upgrades or even replacements for him this year—if ever.
- John Jaeckel

I think the forward lines will be a bit fluid until the Hawks find something that works. It is very possible that the deployment from a defensive aspect will better determine where Hossa plays. If Q wants to use Hossa to provide shutdown defensive help and spread out some scoring, he could find himself playing outside the top 6.

I think it will really depend how much Q wants to try and get Toews more offensive chances and get him away from some of his defensive responsibility. I.e. If the Hawks find themselves with some young forwards that can play "okay" offensively, but not fully up to speed defensively, they could slot them into more offensive zone draws. Assuming Q can trust the lower lines with defensive responsibility, but I think we'll see things change a lot early on.

The one advantage for Hossa, being late in his career, he could benefit from some time against the weaker D on the opposing team. I think if Toews/Kane/Hossa are all on separate lines, than teams are going to key on stopping Kane/Toews more with their better D, and that might open the door for Hossa to take advantage more. It could help him get that scoring back on track, if he has some chemistry with his line mates.

The problem with moving Seabrook is that there is not anyone in the Hawks' system to step up and replace him. While I don't think Darling is as good as Crawford, the delta between them is not as great as that between Seabrook and whomever you would slot as the new third defenseman.

Plus, when you add in replacement cost for the "new" Seabrook or Crawford, the cap savings will not be enough to hang on to #72, whom I think will look for $6.5-7M, assuming he has a season even close to last year's.

Difficult times in salary cap hell ....
- Hank_Greenberg

Time to make McD the commish and put in a luxury tax.

And as several of us have mentioned how is this team better with the loss of now Shaw and TT after Saad last spring. Secondary scoring is evaporating. Outside of Shaw, Anisimov is the only guy that'll go to the front of the goal.
Do we expect the kids to start filling the net?

The question is when do they move more of the core out to start filling in depth? And with all the NMCs Stan has handed out its just going to make it more difficult - as we saw at the draft where they tried to move CC to the Flames.

They have no one to replace Seabs...so CC continues to be the logical choice, but I'm not advocating that either. If they can grab Hudler that would be a good stop gap for now. I don't see them having a choice. Or are they going to hold off and try to get something at the TDL again this year...but what's left in the cupboard?

Two questions:

1) do you think that Panarin could drive scoring on a line that did not include Kane?
2) if not is there another center (or player that could be a center) on this team that could man the spot between 72 & 88 so that AA could be tested at Toews left side?
- Chunk

Yes. Especially if he still has AA as his center. Which is why I've been suggesting that the Hawks try one of Schmaltz/Hinostroza/Motte with Toews and Kane, another with Panarin and Anisimov, Panik-Kruger-Hossa as a 3rd line, and Desi-Moose-Tootoo/Icehog as the 4th line.

Michael Grosso ‏@RumorBreak 1m1 minute ago
WC 2016-2017:
1. CHI
2. STL
3. DAL
4. LAK
5. ANA
6. SJS
7. CGY
8. WPG
9. NSH
10. COL
11. MIN
12. EDM
13. ARI
14. VAN
- DarthKane

with currently constructed lineup, Hawks seem too high and SJS too low. If the Hawks and Sharks were to face off as is, I would be surprised if SJS doesn't win that series

I could be wrong, but I believe he's spent more than 10 games or so last year on the third line, and I've seen people slot him on 3rd right here.

But I agree with you John - I don't have any confidence we have a better 1RW anywhere in sight. My point overall is that we are carrying an enormous amount of potential dead weight at forward.
- busmaster

Sorry, but you would be wrong. Hossa spent no real amount of time in the bottom 6 during the regular season. His most common line combos that don't include Toews were still top 6 guys (or how they were used last year): Panarin-Anisimov for 36 minutes (mostly a mix of minutes over the span of the entire season) and Shaw-Teravainen for all of about 10 minutes (likely the game Toews missed time with right before ASW). Outside of looking at line combos, Hossa does have some TOI on-ice with b6 players, like Kruger and Desjardins, but they're primary due to in-game shifts with Hossa still deployed with other 1st liners (like Kruger replacing Toews for a shift between Shaw-Hossa, pretty common since Toews would take a spin with Panarin-Kane).

Hossa has played with Kruger as his center for longer periods, though. They weren't exactly deployed like a b6 line but there you go.

Now I found it.

I'll take Seabrook & CC over Panarin anytime.

There is no evidence to suggest Panarin is a stand alone impact player, but the evidence is there about them.

You wanna cause his lofty $$$$ expectations to come down to Earth?

Play him elsewhere.
and see if
in fact he is a generator without the gifts of the core.

(But we know you don't break up the best line in hockey last year, you don't trade AA or move Artemi to the third line...

there is a better chance kruger is the starting left wing, with Martin Lundberg hold down the PK and lower centre position.
or Lundberg on LEFT wing with Toews. (Yeah I know he plays mostly LhRW), or
Nick Schmaltz or McNeill or Motter...
- wiz1901

I don't think you can say there is no evidence, as that is very black and white, but the answer is probably more grey. Panarin has experience in the KHL and internationally where he has been very successful and he has shown shifts without Kane where he was controlling the play with the puck on his stick. Going back even to the 1st round playoffs vs the Blues recently, he seemed to do well when Q juggled the lines and solid on other lines. I just don't see how you can feel there is no evidence given what Panarin has shown thus far.

I'll take Seabrook & CC over Panarin anytime.

There is no evidence to suggest Panarin is a stand alone impact player, but the evidence is there about them.

You wanna cause his lofty $$$$ expectations to come down to Earth?

Play him elsewhere.
and see if
in fact he is a generator without the gifts of the core.
- wiz1901

I would have to agree especially reading somewhere how Panarin's advanced stats drop significantly when not playing with Kane. If he can be as productive playing with Toews or whoever else, then more evidence to justify re-signing him and at an amount that the Hawks can afford. There is the fear of him being similar to Moulson who's offense went drastically south once the Isles traded him and he no longer benefited from Tavares as his center. IMHO, Panarin is > than Moulson but he still has to prove this coming year that his rookie season wasn't an anamoly stats-wise.

And definitely not saying that Panarin isn't offensively gifted. He truly is. But can he be a consistent PPG player and can he play just as strong away from Kane?

I think the forward lines will be a bit fluid until the Hawks find something that works. It is very possible that the deployment from a defensive aspect will better determine where Hossa plays. If Q wants to use Hossa to provide shutdown defensive help and spread out some scoring, he could find himself playing outside the top 6.

I think it will really depend how much Q wants to try and get Toews more offensive chances and get him away from some of his defensive responsibility. I.e. If the Hawks find themselves with some young forwards that can play "okay" offensively, but not fully up to speed defensively, they could slot them into more offensive zone draws. Assuming Q can trust the lower lines with defensive responsibility, but I think we'll see things change a lot early on.

The one advantage for Hossa, being late in his career, he could benefit from some time against the weaker D on the opposing team. I think if Toews/Kane/Hossa are all on separate lines, than teams are going to key on stopping Kane/Toews more with their better D, and that might open the door for Hossa to take advantage more. It could help him get that scoring back on track, if he has some chemistry with his line mates.
- breadbag

Agreed with most of what you wrote except for the part about Toews taking more offensive zone draws. He's the top faceoff man in the league and a perennial Selke finalist so I imagine the coaching staff is going to rely on him and Kruger heavily to take a lot of the defensive zone draws. If that's the case, then Toews needs responsible wingers so that he doesn't over exert himself covering for them.

Kane is no longer a slouch on defense so I'm not worried about him as much anymore. The left winger, though, needs to be strong like how Saad and Laad were.

I think making a significant trade right now would get us a good 1RW +.

Crawford is first on my list. With the upgraded defense from last year, Darling could easily hold down goal.

Is Buffalo still in the market for a goalie? Would Reinhardt & Lehner in return be asking too much or not enough? Maybe Reinhardt, Lehner, Ennis. I added Ennis because he could be on the list of people for the expansion draft and also balance out the money a little.

Panarin seemed to do well when Q juggled the lines and solid on other lines. I just don't see how you can feel there is no evidence that he cannot generate offense himself, given what Panarin has shown thus far.
- breadbag

There is no evidence either way...my point.

If Panarin shifted clicked and we BEAT the Blues, then I am not skeptical.

Crawford is first on my list. With the upgraded defense from last year, Darling could easily hold down goal.

Is Buffalo still in the market for a goalie? Would Reinhardt & Lehner in return be asking too much or not enough? Maybe Reinhardt, Lehner, Ennis.
- gifman

Huh?

Why would a team trying to get better trade away an early drafted young first rd.pick for a NOW goalie?

Think of it this way....when he was still in development and the hawks were garbage in 2006, sending Duncan Keith to Buffalo for the 26 yr. old Ryan Miller who won 40 reg season games and 9 playoff games...
it helps the hawks THEN but down the road...it hurts them a little

Anyone have any thoughts on the World Cup of Hockey 2016? Tough Group B with Finland, Sweden, Russia and the Team North America (all Canadian and American players 23 and under). It starts in less than a month. Should be a fun tournament.

Agreed with most of what you wrote except for the part about Toews taking more offensive zone draws. He's the top faceoff man in the league and a perennial Selke finalist so I imagine the coaching staff is going to rely on him and Kruger heavily to take a lot of the defensive zone draws. If that's the case, then Toews needs responsible wingers so that he doesn't over exert himself covering for them.

Kane is no longer a slouch on defense so I'm not worried about him as much anymore. The left winger, though, needs to be strong like how Saad and Laad were.
- AEL_Fox

I'm just suggesting it in the case that Q could put Kruger-Hossa together, in that they could free Toews up to help more on the offensive end. Toews is solid defensively, no question, but they may need him to help take load off Kane's line. (assuming they would keep PAK as a unit) If the Hawks had two bottom 6 C that play responsible D and win draws, Toews doesn't have to wear himself out in the regular season. I'm not saying this is what they will do and strategies change throughout the course of a game depending on the score. The bottom 6 looks like they won't be providing much in the way of offense, so hopefully they can at least carry a lot of the defensive load. I don't think this Hawks roster will struggle preventing goals, but scoring seems like it will be a question mark. Toews has scoring talent that is hindered by him having to take so many defensive responsibilities.

Yes. Especially if he still has AA as his center. Which is why I've been suggesting that the Hawks try one of Schmaltz/Hinostroza/Motte with Toews and Kane, another with Panarin and Anisimov, Panik-Kruger-Hossa as a 3rd line, and Desi-Moose-Tootoo/Icehog as the 4th line.
- SimpleJack

Is it because of his 42% in the dot or his below average foot speed. Couldn't have anything to do with the MVP on the other wing?

Is it because of his 42% in the dot or his below average foot speed. Couldn't have anything to do with the MVP on the other wing?
- John Jaeckel

You got a better lineup suggestion without AA playing center?

I guess I miised the part of Seabrook disappearing...

I believe the brought Kempny in to play the left side.

I like the chances of Forsling over Pokka, but the quicker we get a look see the faster we know if we are delusional.
- wiz1901

Yes.

Forsling? Pokka?

2-7
4-51
26-57
32

What is this Forsling and this Pokka you speak of? No room at the Inn (presently).

There is no evidence either way...my point.

If Panarin shifted clicked and we BEAT the Blues, then I am not skeptical.
- wiz1901

My point is there are plenty of examples of the impact Panarin can have. For example, look at each goal AA scored against the blues in the series. All three were the result of great play by Panarin without Kane.

April 17th, Panarin lost the draw, but chased it down into the corner, won a board battle and found AA all alone in front. Playing 4v4 it was just Panarin and AA up front.

April 21st, Panarin had possession of the puck and used his skating to break free of the defender to make the play on goal that AA managed to stuff home. The line at the time was Panarin - AA - TT

April 23rd - Panarin maintains possession along the boards and finds Hossa all alone in front with a great pass and AA managed to tap in the rebound.

The kid can make big plays with the puck and has shown he can have an impact on the game with his will and fight to win. I'm not trying to debate if he is more important than either CC or Seabrook, but there is evidence that this guy is more than just someone who benefited from playing with Kane. There are a lot of indications pointing in favor of him being an impact on any line.

Now I found it.

I'll take Seabrook & CC over Panarin anytime.

There is no evidence to suggest Panarin is a stand alone impact player, but the evidence is there about them.

You wanna cause his lofty $$$$ expectations to come down to Earth?

Play him elsewhere.
and see if
in fact he is a generator without the gifts of the core.

(But we know you don't break up the best line in hockey last year, you don't trade AA or move Artemi to the third line...

there is a better chance kruger is the starting left wing, with Martin Lundberg hold down the PK and lower centre position.
or Lundberg on LEFT wing with Toews. (Yeah I know he plays mostly LhRW), or
Nick Schmaltz or McNeill or Motter...
- wiz1901

does that include two or three years from now? Panarin still on the upswing, have to believe Seabrook and Crawford will be on the downslide by then.

Yes.

Forsling? Pokka?

2-7
4-51
26-57
32

What is this Forsling and this Pokka you speak of? No room at the Inn (presently).
- John Jaeckel

Yep. And you forgot to add Big Vik and Gustafsson to the list.

does that include two or three years from now? Panarin still on the upswing, have to believe Seabrook and Crawford will be on the downslide by then.
- matt_ahrens

He is also the only legitimate top 2 line LW on the team. No replacement there either. Next year, a big contract will go... That writing is on the wall. A contract has to go to retool other areas, particularly left and right wing.

I think the Hawks again trade for a winger at the TDL if Hudler is not signed.

You got a better lineup suggestion without AA playing center?
- SimpleJack

Not sure how what you've asked has anything to do with your absolute certainty Panarin can carry a line.

But,

Yes, one way you can ice a better lineup is Stanley figures out a way to add another top 6 winger.

OR,

You could move AA out to LW (where he played on occasion in Columbus) with Toews, for example, and Kane on the right, and play Kruger with Hossa (who he played most of a season with previously), and Panarin.

I just think Panarin's numbers suffer without Kane—in fact, I pretty much know it, regardless of who centers the line. Unless that center is himself a really dynamic offensive player, which AA isn't.

I actually think regardless of the center, one way to spread out the offense in the top six is get Hossa with Panarin and Toews with Kane.

Kane probably ignites Toews' line, almost regardless of who's on the opposite wing.

And—in terms of styles and what each player needs to be effective, there could be chemistry between Panarin and Hossa. Both play the cycle very well, Panarin was very good at getting Kane (a scoring LHRW) pucks in scoring position—which Hossa was missing all season last year without Saad.

Kane is the best offensive player on the team, by a margin, then Panarin, then Toews, then, like it or not, probably Hossa. So the answer in the top 6 may be spreading out 88 and 72's offense, but the right way, getting them with the right guys in terms of styles..