Motte . . . maybe . . . maybe . . . if the Hawks are very lucky, can be a reliable top 6 forward this year.

Fortin is 19 years old and had a good prospect camp. As did Ryan Garlock, Adam Berti, igor Makarov, Alex Kojevnikov, etc at the same age. In other words, if Fortin is what you're counting on, look out below, the wheels are off.
- John Jaeckel

John, I honestly don't see a solution if Hudler is not signed. The team, at least the forwards are worse off. However, the defense is much improved. I was just thinking hypothetically on the whole thing because I don't see an answer at all.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Hudler is going to want more than a one year deal. And more $$ than Stan wants to pay...after all, Hudler is a stop gap, not the answer.

I don't see anyone on the current roster who can play top line minutes with Toews....or...anyone off the Walmart $1 million scrap heap.

What are the chances Seabrook gets moved? I love Seabs, but that contract is gonna be a team-killer in year or two. Seabrook would bring back a very good, if not excellent, young cost controlled LW.
It's better to trade a guy a year or two too early....than a year too late.

The only other asset that can bring back a quality top line winger is CC.....and at this point, just about every team has their starting goalie locked up.

This is all nice and good, but for everyone out there who says hes not a problem - why is he being discussed as a 3rd line checking option? You would never consider that when he signed.

I feel like everyone here knows the answer but is denying it.

We better hope and pray (against odds) that Motte, Panik AND Schmaltz are the real deal because in my book, guys like Lundberg, Rassmussem, Tootoo and Hinostroza aren't a heck of a lot better than the 2012 version with guys like Morrison, Bollig, Brunnette and Morin.
- busmaster

By who?

I think Quenneville may have alluded to some altered role for him in the future—which is a given.

But even if Q was referring then to this year, might that have been based on the assumption that some other asset(s) would be acquired?

I still haven't heard or seen the case for a likely replacement from among the Hawks' current assets.

Hinostroza? So how does that improve that line? I just don't see it. I guarantee you this: Most NHL GMs, coaches and defensemen are laughing at that idea.

Schmaltz? Motte? A 20- and 21-year old respectively who have not played one game in the NHL?

It's so easy to place "pieces" on the game board and assume because of some mostly "internet scouting" reports, or some sidetalk at a fan convention, that a kid with zero or minimal NHL experience will just step in and be the player he is projected to be, really at least a couple of seasons from now, with no mistakes or learning curve.

Realistically, we know Schmaltz (20) is not real big, zero NHL experience, has shown some good hands and two-way play in the USHL and college.

Motte (21) grades out as a good two-way player (in college) who had one year where he scored well. Troy Brouwer, just one example, averaged 35-40 goals a year in junior AND the AHL, he's never cracked 25 in the NHL and it is debatable whether he is a 2nd or 3rd line winger (after much overall improvement in his game) today.

Hinostroza scored 18 in the A last year. OK.

It just seems the "Hossa is deteriorated" narrative has gotten waaaayyyyy out of control when we assume any of those guys will be upgrades or even replacements for him this year—if ever.

John, I honestly don't see a solution if Hudler is not signed. The team, at least the forwards are worse off. However, the defense is much improved. I was just thinking hypothetically on the whole thing because I don't see an answer at all.
- 93Joe

Agree. The D is improved but is it that much better than the 2011 teams D core? 2 and 4 are about the same and I would say 7 and 51 are not quite as good. Kempny is unproven and TVR is solid. So it might be a bit better. BUT yikes are the forwards scary.

I would say the 2011 forward group is better than the forward group we have right now. That entire season was a struggle. I don't see a big difference between the two.

Top 6 talent

Hossa Toews Kane Sharp Brouwer v. Toews Hossa Kane Anisimov Panarin

Bottom 6 talent notables

Bolland Kopechky Stalberg Bickell Frolik v. Panik Kruger Desjardin TooToo

I still believe this is a really good team. Our defense is much improved and we have kept Corey. Sure, would have been nice to have Vesey. And it would be nice to have Hudler. But if not, this team will still compete for the Cup. Don't discount how valuable the time off with the early playoff exit will be for them. It would be asking a lot for 2 or more young guys to really hit....but I feel strongly that one will be a forty point player this year. And they might be aggressive at the trade deadline again.

I know it is easy to be a Haugh or Mariotti or some other negative nelly in the media....but we have a good team.
- onehundredlevel

I won't disagree. My point is and has been, last year's team was "good" too. Just not "great."

Depending on how much Campbell has left, what he can contribute esp. 5-on-5, take some pressure off Keith, allow Q to more selectively use TVR—all good. i just don't know today "how" good.

But there was an issue last year with the forward lines and scoring on all but one line, and it is really hard to see how that's not maybe even gotten worse with the losses of TT, Shaw, and Ladd.

By who?

I think Quenneville may have alluded to some altered role for him in the future—which is a given.

But even if Q was referring then to this year, might that have been based on the assumption that some other asset(s) would be acquired?

I still haven't heard or seen the case for a likely replacement from among the Hawks' current assets.

Hinostroza? So how does that improve that line? I just don't see it. I guarantee you this: Most NHL GMs, coaches and defensemen are laughing at that idea.

Schmaltz? Motte? A 20- and 21-year old respectively who have not played one game in the NHL?

It's so easy to place "pieces" on the game board and assume because of some mostly "internet scouting" reports, or some sidetalk at a fan convention, that a kid with zero or minimal NHL experience will just step in and be the player he is projected to be, really at least a couple of seasons from now, with no mistakes or learning curve.

Realistically, we know Schmaltz (20) is not real big, zero NHL experience, has shown some good hands and two-way play in the USHL and college.

Motte (21) grades out as a good two-way player (in college) who had one year where he scored well. Troy Brouwer, just one example, averaged 35-40 goals a year in junior AND the AHL, he's never cracked 25 in the NHL and it is debatable whether he is a 2nd or 3rd line winger (after much overall improvement in his game) today.

Hinostroza scored 18 in the A last year. OK.

It just seems the "Hossa is deteriorated" narrative has gotten waaaayyyyy out of control when we assume any of those guys will be upgrades or even replacements for him this year—if ever.
- John Jaeckel

Q put him on the 3rd line with Kruger in the playoffs when he shuffled the lines - had TT with AA and 72, Kane with Toews and Ladd. That worked. But the Blackhawks had TT and Ladd then and they don't now.

By who?

I think Quenneville may have alluded to some altered role for him in the future—which is a given.

But even if Q was referring then to this year, might that have been based on the assumption that some other asset(s) would be acquired?

I still haven't heard or seen the case for a likely replacement from among the Hawks' current assets.

Hinostroza? So how does that improve that line? I just don't see it. I guarantee you this: Most NHL GMs, coaches and defensemen are laughing at that idea.

Schmaltz? Motte? A 20- and 21-year old respectively who have not played one game in the NHL?

It's so easy to place "pieces" on the game board and assume because of some mostly "internet scouting" reports, or some sidetalk at a fan convention, that a kid with zero or minimal NHL experience will just step in and be the player he is projected to be, really at least a couple of seasons from now, with no mistakes or learning curve.

Realistically, we know Schmaltz (20) is not real big, zero NHL experience, has shown some good hands and two-way play in the USHL and college.

Motte (21) grades out as a good two-way player (in college) who had one year where he scored well. Troy Brouwer, just one example, averaged 35-40 goals a year in junior AND the AHL, he's never cracked 25 in the NHL and it is debatable whether he is a 2nd or 3rd line winger (after much overall improvement in his game) today.

Hinostroza scored 18 in the A last year. OK.

It just seems the "Hossa is deteriorated" narrative has gotten waaaayyyyy out of control when we assume any of those guys will be upgrades or even replacements for him this year—if ever.
- John Jaeckel

I could be wrong, but I believe he's spent more than 10 games or so last year on the third line, and I've seen people slot him on 3rd right here.

But I agree with you John - I don't have any confidence we have a better 1RW anywhere in sight. My point overall is that we are carrying an enormous amount of potential dead weight at forward.

By who?

I think Quenneville may have alluded to some altered role for him in the future—which is a given.

But even if Q was referring then to this year, might that have been based on the assumption that some other asset(s) would be acquired?

I still haven't heard or seen the case for a likely replacement from among the Hawks' current assets.

Hinostroza? So how does that improve that line? I just don't see it. I guarantee you this: Most NHL GMs, coaches and defensemen are laughing at that idea.

Schmaltz? Motte? A 20- and 21-year old respectively who have not played one game in the NHL?

It's so easy to place "pieces" on the game board and assume because of some mostly "internet scouting" reports, or some sidetalk at a fan convention, that a kid with zero or minimal NHL experience will just step in and be the player he is projected to be, really at least a couple of seasons from now, with no mistakes or learning curve.

Realistically, we know Schmaltz (20) is not real big, zero NHL experience, has shown some good hands and two-way play in the USHL and college.

Motte (21) grades out as a good two-way player (in college) who had one year where he scored well. Troy Brouwer, just one example, averaged 35-40 goals a year in junior AND the AHL, he's never cracked 25 in the NHL and it is debatable whether he is a 2nd or 3rd line winger (after much overall improvement in his game) today.

Hinostroza scored 18 in the A last year. OK.

It just seems the "Hossa is deteriorated" narrative has gotten waaaayyyyy out of control when we assume any of those guys will be upgrades or even replacements for him this year—if ever.
- John Jaeckel

Radim Vrbata where are yooooouuuuuu??????

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think Hudler is going to want more than a one year deal. And more $$ than Stan wants to pay...after all, Hudler is a stop gap, not the answer.
- tompo1015

Sure, Hudler may want a multi-year contract. However, it's the 3rd week of August and most teams have already settled on who they want as part of the team, and what multi-year deals they are willing to hand out to UFAs.

At this point, Hudler is going to have to accept a one-year deal if he's looking to take another swing at a fat multi-year contract next summer. That's unless something comes out of left field, and the chances of that happening are pretty slim at this point - at least you would have to think.

At this point, I'll take Hudler as a stop gap over the the kids that are too green for the job, or the never-will-bes still lurking around in the system.

I won't disagree. My point is and has been, last year's team was "good" too. Just not "great."

Depending on how much Campbell has left, what he can contribute esp. 5-on-5, take some pressure off Keith, allow Q to more selectively use TVR—all good. i just don't know today "how" good.

But there was an issue last year with the forward lines and scoring on all but one line, and it is really hard to see how that's not maybe even gotten worse with the losses of TT, Shaw, and Ladd.
- John Jaeckel

Two questions:

1) do you think that Panarin could drive scoring on a line that did not include Kane?
2) if not is there another center (or player that could be a center) on this team that could man the spot between 72 & 88 so that AA could be tested at Toews left side?

Radim Vrbata where are yooooouuuuuu??????

- Kewl1

Hanging out in Phoenix to start the season...

I won't disagree. My point is and has been, last year's team was "good" too. Just not "great."

Depending on how much Campbell has left, what he can contribute esp. 5-on-5, take some pressure off Keith, allow Q to more selectively use TVR—all good. i just don't know today "how" good.

But there was an issue last year with the forward lines and scoring on all but one line, and it is really hard to see how that's not maybe even gotten worse with the losses of TT, Shaw, and Ladd.
- John Jaeckel

Yeah, very good points. I am really hoping the long offseason helps. Speaking of....who is the favorite for the World Cup coming up? It should be some fun hockey to watch. That Group B with Finland, Russia, Sweden and Team North America should be really fun to watch play out. I believe Team North America is all Canadian and American players from the age of 23 and under. That team should be fun to watch.

By who?

I think Quenneville may have alluded to some altered role for him in the future—which is a given.

But even if Q was referring then to this year, might that have been based on the assumption that some other asset(s) would be acquired?

I still haven't heard or seen the case for a likely replacement from among the Hawks' current assets.

Hinostroza? So how does that improve that line? I just don't see it. I guarantee you this: Most NHL GMs, coaches and defensemen are laughing at that idea.

Schmaltz? Motte? A 20- and 21-year old respectively who have not played one game in the NHL?

It's so easy to place "pieces" on the game board and assume because of some mostly "internet scouting" reports, or some sidetalk at a fan convention, that a kid with zero or minimal NHL experience will just step in and be the player he is projected to be, really at least a couple of seasons from now, with no mistakes or learning curve.

Realistically, we know Schmaltz (20) is not real big, zero NHL experience, has shown some good hands and two-way play in the USHL and college.

Motte (21) grades out as a good two-way player (in college) who had one year where he scored well. Troy Brouwer, just one example, averaged 35-40 goals a year in junior AND the AHL, he's never cracked 25 in the NHL and it is debatable whether he is a 2nd or 3rd line winger (after much overall improvement in his game) today.

Hinostroza scored 18 in the A last year. OK.

It just seems the "Hossa is deteriorated" narrative has gotten waaaayyyyy out of control when we assume any of those guys will be upgrades or even replacements for him this year—if ever.
- John Jaeckel

as previous noted numerous times...the hawks are a allstar core but over all a very soft apple

as previous noted numerous times...the hawks are a allstar core but over all a very soft apple
- bogiedoc

Looking strictly at salary vs quality-of-replacements, I'd say Seabs and CC need to leave if the Hawks are going to sign 72 and compete for the foreseeable future.

Sure, Hudler may want a multi-year contract. However, it's the 3rd week of August and most teams have already settled on who they want as part of the team, and what multi-year deals they are willing to hand out to UFAs.

At this point, Hudler is going to have to accept a one-year deal if he's looking to take another swing at a fat multi-year contract next summer. That's unless something comes out of left field, and the chances of that happening are pretty slim at this point - at least you would have to think.

At this point, I'll take Hudler as a stop gap over the the kids that are too green for the job, or the never-will-bes still lurking around in the system.
- EKB13

Oh I agree, I'd take Hudler as a stop gap... but....I wouldn't be shocked to see him go to europe5or the khl, for a 2 year deal.

Looking strictly at salary vs quality-of-replacements, I'd say Seabs and CC need to leave if the Hawks are going to sign 72 and compete for the foreseeable future.
- busmaster

The problem with moving Seabrook is that there is not anyone in the Hawks' system to step up and replace him. While I don't think Darling is as good as Crawford, the delta between them is not as great as that between Seabrook and whomever you would slot as the new third defenseman.

Plus, when you add in replacement cost for the "new" Seabrook or Crawford, the cap savings will not be enough to hang on to #72, whom I think will look for $6.5-7M, assuming he has a season even close to last year's.

Difficult times in salary cap hell ....

Two questions:

1) do you think that Panarin could drive scoring on a line that did not include Kane?
2) if not is there another center (or player that could be a center) on this team that could man the spot between 72 & 88 so that AA could be tested at Toews left side?
- Chunk

1) Interesting question. He can pass as well as shoot. But it did not hurt his totals last year at all having 88 on the opposite flank. So "drive scoring"? I guess, but not lie that line delivered last year. I would try Hossa on the other side of him and AA, honestly. Bump Kane up. THAT seems to even things about a bit and then maybe you can afford "audition" a kid on 19 and 88's LW.
2) Also interesting because I have heard whispers about acquiring another C. So you put Kruger between 72 and 88, and AA on Toews' left with 81? I know the "oh my God, Kruger can't score" litany starts about . . . now . . . but . . . but . . . his game is kinda similar to AA's and he can pass the puck (underrated there) and play with skill guys.

1) Interesting question. He can pass as well as shoot. But it did not hurt his totals last year at all having 88 on the opposite flank. So "drive scoring"? I guess, but not lie that line delivered last year. I would try Hossa on the other side of him and AA, honestly. Bump Kane up. THAT seems to even things about a bit and then maybe you can afford "audition" a kid on 19 and 88's LW.
2) Also interesting because I have heard whispers about acquiring another C. So you put Kruger between 72 and 88, and AA on Toews' left with 81? I know the "oh my God, Kruger can't score" litany starts about . . . now . . . but . . . but . . . his game is kinda similar to AA's and he can pass the puck (underrated there) and play with skill guys.
- John Jaeckel

Love that idea. Kane has shown he can literally carry a line by himself. I would assume him and Toews could easily carry a lessor young LW with no real negative impact. Panarin has shown he can play along the boards and cycle. The puck sticks to him and he is very strong on it for his size. Arty can go dig out pucks and retrieve. I think Hossa would still be able to play his game with those two.

My wife got me a game used Sullivan jersey. The day it arrived i tried it on and my wife got a horrified look on her face. I told her i thought it looked good on me and she just pointed to the sports ticker on the screen saying he was traded
- ikeane

Ouch, that's horrible! My buddy used to work at one of the major hospitals in Chicago and did surgery on Sullivan after one of his injuries. He got Sullivan's autograph for me.

I'm sure many of you have seen this video before, but awesome karma after an Avs fan taunts Sullivan for getting hit in the face with an errant stick. The funny part is when the fan's lady friend laughs and gives Sully a thumbs up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yootoZMCCOM

1) Interesting question. He can pass as well as shoot. But it did not hurt his totals last year at all having 88 on the opposite flank. So "drive scoring"? I guess, but not lie that line delivered last year. I would try Hossa on the other side of him and AA, honestly. Bump Kane up. THAT seems to even things about a bit and then maybe you can afford "audition" a kid on 19 and 88's LW.
2) Also interesting because I have heard whispers about acquiring another C. So you put Kruger between 72 and 88, and AA on Toews' left with 81? I know the "oh my God, Kruger can't score" litany starts about . . . now . . . but . . . but . . . his game is kinda similar to AA's and he can pass the puck (underrated there) and play with skill guys.
- John Jaeckel

I'm of the opinion that there are a larger number of players that could spot between 72 & 88 and be effective than who could be plugged in on Toews' left.

However, I have more faith in a "plug-in" having success on a line across from Kane as he is a true playmaker, where Toews and Hossa play a bit more specific heavy/cycle style and need that linemate to follow suit. Ladd, Saad, work great there. Versteeg, TT, Stahlberg, etc never seemed to follow suit well enough.

Michael Grosso ‏@RumorBreak 1m1 minute ago
WC 2016-2017:
1. CHI
2. STL
3. DAL
4. LAK
5. ANA
6. SJS
7. CGY
8. WPG
9. NSH
10. COL
11. MIN
12. EDM
13. ARI
14. VAN

The problem with moving Seabrook is that there is not anyone in the Hawks' system to step up and replace him. While I don't think Darling is as good as Crawford, the delta between them is not as great as that between Seabrook and whomever you would slot as the new third defenseman.

Plus, when you add in replacement cost for the "new" Seabrook or Crawford, the cap savings will not be enough to hang on to #72, whom I think will look for $6.5-7M, assuming he has a season even close to last year's.

Difficult times in salary cap hell ....
- Hank_Greenberg

I think next to Keith you can hide Seabs on the first line for another few years, but Hawks seem to have a little more defensive depth than forward...

You'll have 2-4 as the first pairing...
And Campbell - Kempny?
And then you have to hope that between TVR, Gustafsson and Rozy you have 2 every-day serviceable guys...

Then you have to hope either Pokka or Forsling can make an impact in the next 1-2 years.

...Which believe it or not, sounds more palatable to me that hoping that any of our average-talent forward prospects and journeymen can step in and be the next Saad/Hossa.

Oh I agree, I'd take Hudler as a stop gap... but....I wouldn't be shocked to see him go to europe5or the khl, for a 2 year deal.
- tompo1015

The KHL season starts this week or next. Honestly, if Hudler was hoping for big money there, I believe that ship has sailed.

Michael Grosso ‏@RumorBreak 1m1 minute ago
WC 2016-2017:
1. CHI
2. STL
3. DAL
4. LAK
5. ANA
6. SJS
7. CGY
8. WPG
9. NSH
10. COL
11. MIN
12. EDM
13. ARI
14. VAN
- DarthKane

Nashville seems a tad low there.

Nashville seems a tad low there.
- EbonyRaptor

Yeah I would put NSH above both CGY and WPG