Lot's of talk on here about how it will be impossible to resign Panarin...

I wouldn't panic on that yet.
I think Panarin can be a better all around player than Tarasenko someday. But right now he doesn't create offense as well....

Panarin had 30 goals , playing with Kane and 8 were on the PP.
How many does he score if he plays on the 3rd line for a good part of the season???

JJ got the right idea though:

try and find a player who is a developing young vet whose NHL team might sacrifice him to shore up a weakness...
teams aren't offering their top trade chips for TvR, but I believe he has really good immediate value and IF the hawks that a shot at even a guy who is looking to sign a new deal in a year, if he is a guy will low producing numbers (so far) and upside, you see how it balances out.

That was why I mention RFA Zemgus Girgensons because I feel there is upside there, plays wing and centre, understands systems already and he could be a heavy lifter on Toews Hossa line from the start and get better and his present NHL totals of 30 golas and 70 points hinder him getting an overpaid deal.

THIS is the type you look for.

Tatar does have a gun, and I think he would get to use it and help the hawks score, but I am not sure Wings are taking a lower end defender and a prospect, after all the rumors he was dangled for the Duck and jet unsigned higher abilitied defenseman...

If you give up both then I'm thinking the defense this season probably is no better than
last year.....That's a problem.
- Al

Disagree. Completely. It's simple math.

Campbell (and Kempny) are probably upgrades over TVR (not to mention Svedberg and Gustafsson). Forsling is not going to play more than handful of games in Chicago (if at all).

Last year:

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
TVR
Rozsival
Svedberg
Gustafsson

This year (without TVR and Forsling):

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Campbell

(better top 4, without question)

Kempny
Rozsival
Svedberg

(marginally better 5-7)



??????

Disagree. Completely. It's simple math.

Campbell (and Kempny) are probably upgrades over TVR (not to mention Svedberg and Gustafsson). Forsling is not going to play more than handful of games in Chicago (if at all).

Last year:

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
TVR
Rozsival
Svedberg
Gustafsson

This year (without TVR and Forsling):

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Campbell

(better top 4, without question)

Kempny
Rozsival
Svedberg

(marginally better 5-7)



??????
- John Jaeckel

If one of the top 5 in your second scenario get injured the defense is fairly weak. I wouldn't count on Rozsival to play more than 40 games either.

Get hold of yourself John!!

I need to see Gustav Forsling up close before I send him AND Tvr packing for a forward we will lose to Las Vegas....

If you know you aren't resigning Panarin long term, THEN you push the panic button and deal two defenders away for this 25 yr. midget sniper, who will want more that the 2.75 mil he makes when his contract ends at the end of the year.

(We have are own farm midgets.)

It is not to say Tatar doesn't have qualities that work, or upside, but he certainly took a step back last season in his production, as did most wings.
Or to say, JJ, that you didn't carefully set up a nice return in the 2 for 1, because you offered a now defender, a furture upsdie skating shooting defender for a guy whose past two season numbers work against the team in arbitration.

and here's the other thing, my own personal opinion:
I always thought Tatar should have be playing his original position as a centre when the wings brought him in, but maybe he failed any auditions there, but dunno, didn't keep up on it.
I never thought he projected to either wing playing anywhere.
(if you wanted to flame me, now is when you say "well, he scored 50 goals and 51 assists the last year as a wing.")

I still see him as a offensive end scorer, and not ready for the Q system, but I dunno on that one either.
Toughness may be an issue with him, but has touch, instincts, controls the puck well, but is more quick than fast. Not a puck pursuit guy or a guy who wins on the wall, but does set up teammates with first step quickness.
- wiz1901

LOL, OK.

TVR is a #5 defender. He is smart, has a nice shot, versatile . . . but . . . an average athlete with serious acceleration, short area quickness issues that some of us knew about but were exposed for ALL to see against St. Louis a few months ago.

Maybe Forsling sweetens the pot too much/overpay. just spitballing. And maybe not.

But . . . how much is a 4th Cup worth? The Hawks are literally, and I am not kidding, one decent, experienced "scoring" winger away from being . . . right there.

Everyone keeps talking about how Pittsburgh did it with 4 rookies last year. But ALL of them were 23-24 with a fair amount of pro experience.

You can't say that about ANY of the Hawk would-be saviors except maybe Hinostroza, who has not shown as a pro that he is remotely ready to fill the shoes of Brandon Saad or Marian Hossa.

Gotta pay to play.

If one of the top 5 in your second scenario get injured the defense is fairly weak. I wouldn't count on Rozsival to play more than 40 games either.
- DarthKane

And that wasn't even more the case last year? What's your actual point? I get so tired of this (with all due respect) DUMB circular argument that ignores the obvious.

The point remains, Bowman has stacked the D depth with vets. Hasn't he? Why? To make a run this year. He even added a future in Kempny.

So where does that leave all the prized D prospects (Svedberg, Forsling, Pokka, Norell, Gustafsson)? In the minors or Sweden.

He has not addressed the other 800 pound gorilla. Top 6 LW.

So why do the first (load up with vets on D) if you aren't going to do the second? Campbell and Rozy were 1-year acquisitions. Why?

So you can "say" you signed a couple of 35+ defensemen for a year? Why?

Wait and see. More to come.

And that wasn't even more the case last year? What's your actual point? I get so tired of this (with all due respect) DUMB circular argument that ignores the obvious.

The point remains, Bowman has stacked the D depth with vets. Hasn't he? Why? To make a run this year. He even added a future in Kempny.

So where does that leave all the prized D prospects (Svedberg, Forsling, Pokka, Norell, Gustafsson)? In the minors or Sweden.

He has not addressed the other 800 pound gorilla. Top 6 LW.

So why do the first (load up with vets on D) if you aren't going to do the second? Campbell and Rozy were 1-year acquisitions. Why?

So you can "say" you signed a couple of 35+ defensemen for a year? Why?

Wait and see. More to come.
- John Jaeckel

Just voicing my opinion here John.

If this team is going to make a deep run they'll need to be deep in defense. At this point we still don't know how Kempny's skills will translate to the NHL level.

I'm not ignoring the fact that this team needs a 1LW, but filling one void (1LW) by creating another (on defense) does not make the team stronger. Last year guys like Svedberg and Gustafsson were not good enough. Will that change with another year of experience, maybe. In the past you've even said that guys like Pokka, Forsling and Norell aren't NHL ready. Maybe one of them surprised us, but it's not something the team can count on.

Maybe a trade with TvR happens, but not until the defense sorts itself out a bit more. Kempny has to show what he can do and one of the younger guys needs to show they can step up permanently.

Disagree. Completely. It's simple math.

Campbell (and Kempny) are probably upgrades over TVR (not to mention Svedberg and Gustafsson). Forsling is not going to play more than handful of games in Chicago (if at all).

Last year:

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
TVR
Rozsival
Svedberg
Gustafsson

This year (without TVR and Forsling):

Keith
Seabrook
Hjalmarsson
Campbell

(better top 4, without question)

Kempny
Rozsival
Svedberg

(marginally better 5-7)



??????
- John Jaeckel

What makes the defense better is because your top 4 has improved as TVR is slotted down AND is a much better #5. If you trade him the defense isn't really better 1-5.
Too many minutes on top 4 and that needs to change.

Bowman will look to deal young players who aren't going to make the roster-And he will need to package a few for any meaningful addition.

Hold on tight...

Just voicing my opinion here John.

If this team is going to make a deep run they'll need to be deep in defense. At this point we still don't know how Kempny's skills will translate to the NHL level.

I'm not ignoring the fact that this team needs a 1LW, but filling one void (1LW) by creating another (on defense) does not make the team stronger. Last year guys like Svedberg and Gustafsson were not good enough. Will that change with another year of experience, maybe. In the past you've even said that guys like Pokka, Forsling and Norell aren't NHL ready. Maybe one of them surprised us, but it's not something the team can count on.

Maybe a trade with TvR happens, but not until the defense sorts itself out a bit more. Kempny has to show what he can do and one of the younger guys needs to show they can step up permanently.
- DarthKane

To me the Campbell signing REALLY helps Kempny acclimate to the NA ice as he drops down to 3rd pairing minutes and quality of competition for the start of the year.

If you seriously want to tell me that the same top-3 as last year, with Campbell, TVR and Kempny vs 3 rookies for much of last year including the PLAYOFFS is not a drastic improvement, then there's not much to talk about. What other team was rolling 3 rookies on D? Was it painful at times, definitely, but we've got a better idea of who can play at what levels TODAY, with idea on what they need to work on to better long-term. Those rookies are the interim "next guys up" with Forling, Pokka, etc. waiting down the line to move up later. This is a good development strategy looking down the road.

On the TvR tradefront, DET has enough 3-5 type guys on D, that's their biggest problem. They are looking for a true #1 guy, and expect they aren't going to sell the farm for anything less than that. They've definitely got talent on the forward side of things, but their D has been going downhill since Lidstrom left, including some questionable contracts to mediocre players to get them where they are today. I'm much happier with the dollars spent for the players we have, than their situation.

On last thing from me for today...

Conor Sheary, Tomas Kuhnhackl, Bryan Rust were nothing morethan supporting role pieces that came through in the short series in terrific ways. (Kinda like TT showed well times play on our last Cup run.)
Bonino & Hagelin were key outside aquisiitions that also worked in as tremendous fits to allow Kessel drop down and the entire puzzle simply came together.

Let's not fool ourselves about their core being the main components of the post season engine.

Just voicing my opinion here John.

If this team is going to make a deep run they'll need to be deep in defense. At this point we still don't know how Kempny's skills will translate to the NHL level.

I'm not ignoring the fact that this team needs a 1LW, but filling one void (1LW) by creating another (on defense) does not make the team stronger. Last year guys like Svedberg and Gustafsson were not good enough. Will that change with another year of experience, maybe. In the past you've even said that guys like Pokka, Forsling and Norell aren't NHL ready. Maybe one of them surprised us, but it's not something the team can count on.

Maybe a trade with TvR happens, but not until the defense sorts itself out a bit more. Kempny has to show what he can do and one of the younger guys needs to show they can step up permanently.
- DarthKane

Exactly. Trade TVR and you have ZERO proven guys at 5-6 who's likely to last a season. Then you're back to where you were last year, namely gassing your top 4 and your forwards are going to once again find themselves alone in the o-zone.