Based on the fact that he isn't even dominating the AHL, he is not ready for the show. He wasn't even the best player on his team last year. That is not NHL ready in my mind. 17 points in the ahl? Yuck.
- j.boyd919

He had a partially torn hamstring coming into camp last year. He will be better this year. How good? Who knows? I like his size and passion. His offense may never be spectacular but he will improve this year if he comes into camp healthy and in shape.

He had a partially torn hamstring coming into camp last year. He will be better this year. How good? Who knows? I like his size and passion. His offense may never be spectacular but he will improve this year if he comes into camp healthy and in shape.
- powerhouse

he SHOULD improve, but at this moment he is not an NHL regular. Probably not this season either, unfortunately, IMO

he SHOULD improve, but at this moment he is not an NHL regular. Probably not this season either, unfortunately, IMO
- j.boyd919

Who knows? I see the glass half full. At the end of the upcoming season, let's talk. I see him having a breakout year. You know Fehr is going to be injured, he is every season. That will be Sundqvist's chance.

Tim Wharnsby
‏@TimWharnsby
Look for #UND's Thomas DiPauli to sign with #Pens.

Tim Wharnsby
‏@TimWharnsby
Look for #UND's Thomas DiPauli to sign with #Pens.
- stowerkraut

Sounds like Vesey isn't going to happen. DiPauli was a 4th round pick by the Caps in 2012, and plays a high energy, 2 way game.

Personally, I think signing Cullen gives the Pens a chance to see just how well the likes of Sheary, Rust and possibly Wilson can fit up in the top six.

The Pens owe it to themselves to see what they really have in their youth. Hold on to Fehr for now, wait to see how the kids pan out and if they don't, move Fehr at the deadline for a rental top-six.

Tim Wharnsby
‏@TimWharnsby
Look for #UND's Thomas DiPauli to sign with #Pens.
- stowerkraut

Mother (frank)ing Louis Mendoza!!!

I loved DiPauli. He was so (frank)ing fast (even though for most of his career he didn't have much control over his fast skating and crashed around a lot) but he really started to develop a goal scorer's touch by his senior year. I'd be surprised if he ever became more than a call up, but he was one of my favorites at school and I'm glad to have another Domer in the system.

Based on the fact that he isn't even dominating the AHL, he is not ready for the show. He wasn't even the best player on his team last year. That is not NHL ready in my mind. 17 points in the ahl? Yuck.
- j.boyd919

Rust didn't light up the AHL statewise and he was a big time contributor to our Cup run. You don't always have score goals if you're constantly driving posetion and doing good things on the ice. Sundqvist is closing in on that. I agree that he should marinate a little bit more but I liked what I saw after his second call up. He'll be an effective fourth liner by 2017.

Based on the fact that he isn't even dominating the AHL, he is not ready for the show. He wasn't even the best player on his team last year. That is not NHL ready in my mind. 17 points in the ahl? Yuck.
- j.boyd919

He's a defensive player and was used in that capacity in the AHL even. Points isn't everything, contrary to what mr Wilson says. He's a 6'4" beast and he likes to park in the crease. Even when he played in the playoffs last year he was never a liability. He's never going to be a huge point getter but he can contribute. I'll see where he's at at the rookie tournament the 16,17,18 of September. Just about a month away already. This summer flew by and the weather where I am has been fantastic. It'll be rookie tournament, World Cup, pre season, regular season one after the other in one months time. The Pens should win the cup every year so the off season is this short every time!!

That's retarded. Age is just a number. Hudler is a good hockey player, just put up 46 points last season, and is a solid 2-way player. Would look good along Geno's wing. Don't sign him to a 5 year deal, but a 1 year deal comes with no risk and comes off the books next year. Rather have 40 points from Huds than 25 points from Rust, if Rust could even hit 25.
- j.boyd919

I'll take Rust over Hudler any day. Rust was clutch in the playoffs and Hudler has never won a cup. I have Rust to score 20 goals this year. I think that kid has the best attitude and his speed is incredible. Age is just a number but we have lots of older players, we have had lots every year and they always find a way to let us down. I want a competitive team in 7 years. We have to cultivate that. No one lets good young players just walk. The fact Hudler has not yet been signed gives me alarm bells. He was an embarrassment in Florida last year. Let so either team make a mistake signing him. If he ends up being a difference maker for any team this year I promise to admit I know nothing but I'm actually a pretty good judge of talent and I think Hudler is a mistake. Nothing retarded about it, and I would know, I work with developmentally disabled people every day for my job and even they think Hudler is a mistake.

What are you basing that on? There's far more tangible evidence that Sundqvist isn't ready to be a full-time NHL player than there is that the Pens wouldn't have won if Fleury was in net. Murray had more than his far share of gaffes in the playoffs, the Pens winning the Cup was more about them being a dominant team than it was goaltending so there really no way to quantify a difference between Murray & Fleury to suggest that either would have greatly affected the overall outcome of the playoffs.
- jaydogg1974

Murray was a rookie and he played admirably considering the pressure. The team plays differently when MAF is in the net, they play tenative. Sorry I know you hate Murray and love MAF but it's time to move on from Fleury.
What am I basing it on? Well year after year of MAF melting down in the playoffs or in pressure situations. He's just so flakey. Yes he played well in the 2015 playoffs, but the Pens had zero chance of winning that series so there was zero pressure. How about the year before against the Blue Jackets? https://youtu.be/WQGz9UoKOKo
I don't need to quantify anything. He just terrified me when the game is close and it means something. The same way you can't quantify Murray as beings anything but great during last years playoffs. I'm just more comfortable with him and so is the team.

I'll take Rust over Hudler any day. Rust was clutch in the playoffs and Hudler has never won a cup. I have Rust to score 20 goals this year. I think that kid has the best attitude and his speed is incredible. Age is just a number but we have lots of older players, we have had lots every year and they always find a way to let us down. I want a competitive team in 7 years. We have to cultivate that. No one lets good young players just walk. The fact Hudler has not yet been signed gives me alarm bells. He was an embarrassment in Florida last year. Let so either team make a mistake signing him. If he ends up being a difference maker for any team this year I promise to admit I know nothing but I'm actually a pretty good judge of talent and I think Hudler is a mistake. Nothing retarded about it, and I would know, I work with developmentally disabled people every day for my job and even they think Hudler is a mistake.
- Dcoms

I'm a big fan of Rust. I think he can put up 15 to 20 goals while opening up ice for Geno to do this thing.

Yea, I understand that, but given that chart, he doesn't really excel at anything in AHL. Not points, not generating shots, not preventing shots.
- j.boyd919

Charts are not hockey. Advanced stats are something you make note of while you are watching the player play not what you base your total opinion of the player on. You might as well be James Tanner and use exclusivly HERO charts to base your opinions on every player and never actually watch a game or give a $hit about the sport.

Charts are not hockey. Advanced stats are something you make note of while you are watching the player play not what you base your total opinion of the player on. You might as well be James Tanner and use exclusivly HERO charts to base your opinions on every player and never actually watch a game or give a $hit about the sport.
- Dcoms

The problem to me with advanced stats sometimes is they are very much contextual. Many times, even advanced stats are taken out of context.

Like looking at HERO chart to compare a 2nd line pairing dman and a 3rd pairing dman, or looking at poor possession numbers of a player who's been misused and playing in a higher role than he should.

http://www.post-gazette.c...auli/stories/201608180181

I didn't think we had real shot at Vesey, but Mackey is making me believe the hype. Didn't realize all the connections through Bonino, DiPauli, and Fish/Sullivan.

I we could land him that'd be huge. I've been one of the first people to say he's overhyped, and I wouldn't be surprised if he just ended up being a bottom six guy, but that'd just be adding another possibility to a roster that already has a lot of possibilities. One of Vesey, Wilson, and Sheary is bound to stick on one of the top two lines, right?

The problem to me with advanced stats sometimes is they are very much contextual. Many times, even advanced stats are taken out of context.

Like looking at HERO chart to compare a 2nd line pairing dman and a 3rd pairing dman, or looking at poor possession numbers of a player who's been misused and playing in a higher role than he should.
- Rinosaur

It's a shame people don't use usage charts more and abuse the more basic advanced stats all out of context. It hurts the credibility of people who actually find them useful. Not accusing J.Boyd of doing that, but there are plenty of people that do (James Tanner).

The problem to me with advanced stats sometimes is they are very much contextual. Many times, even advanced stats are taken out of context.

Like looking at HERO chart to compare a 2nd line pairing dman and a 3rd pairing dman, or looking at poor possession numbers of a player who's been misused and playing in a higher role than he should.
- Rinosaur

They are very much exploitable. You can find some dumb stat and pump it to make a player look great or horrible. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors and misdirection to it. The proof is the success or failure of a player at the end of the day and how hard he plays and what his real impact is. Kasparitis was never an advanced stats darling by he was such a bastard and stuck to Lemieux so uncomfortably that Mario insisted the Penguins get him on the roster so he didn't have to pay against him any more. His points per 60 were probably around replacement player level yet his impact on the game was undeniable.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2016/08/18/Penguins-in-play-for-highly-touted-college-free-agents-Jimmy-Vesey-Thomas-DiPauli/stories/201608180181

I didn't think we had real shot at Vesey, but Mackey is making me believe the hype. Didn't realize all the connections through Bonino, DiPauli, and Fish/Sullivan.

I we could land him that'd be huge. I've been one of the first people to say he's overhyped, and I wouldn't be surprised if he just ended up being a bottom six guy, but that'd just be adding another possibility to a roster that already has a lot of possibilities. One of Vesey, Wilson, and Sheary is bound to stick on one of the top two lines, right?
- Victoro311

I guess it's just a weird situation to be in because the Pens don't really have a 3rd line. It's either Geno's 2nd line or Cullen's 4th line these guys would be playing on.

Kuhnhackl SHOULD NOT be bumped out of the lineup under any circumstances. Relatively speaking he excelled more at his role than any of the call-ups. 5G/10A/15PTS in 42 games playing the fourth line? I know he can play RW as well, but Rust would be universally foolish to bump out of the lineup.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/penguins/2016/08/18/Penguins-in-play-for-highly-touted-college-free-agents-Jimmy-Vesey-Thomas-DiPauli/stories/201608180181

I didn't think we had real shot at Vesey, but Mackey is making me believe the hype. Didn't realize all the connections through Bonino, DiPauli, and Fish/Sullivan.

I we could land him that'd be huge. I've been one of the first people to say he's overhyped, and I wouldn't be surprised if he just ended up being a bottom six guy, but that'd just be adding another possibility to a roster that already has a lot of possibilities. One of Vesey, Wilson, and Sheary is bound to stick on one of the top two lines, right?
- Victoro311

I feel much better about Vesey than I did a couple days ago too. This is the perfect situation for him so he would have to have already made his mind up a long time ago to not pick us at the end of the day.

I guess it's just a weird situation to be in because the Pens don't really have a 3rd line. It's either Geno's 2nd line or Cullen's 4th line these guys would be playing on.

Kuhnhackl SHOULD NOT be bumped out of the lineup under any circumstances. Relatively speaking he excelled more at his role than any of the call-ups. 5G/10A/15PTS in 42 games playing the fourth line? I know he can play RW as well, but Rust would be universally foolish to bump out of the lineup.
- Rinosaur

Its a really tough situation to be in. There's a lot of guys that deserve a spot and not enough spots. Sundqvist is all but guaranteed to go to WBS. My guess is that Wilson won't start the season with a spot due to recency bias and still being waver exempt. Think they'll let him get his sea legs back in WBS, but then after that first injury call up, if he plays how he did last season before going down, it'll be tough to take him out of the lineup. You add Vesey and there's yet another guy that has to sit out. Who do you pick? Its a tough call. Kuhnhackl's steadiness? Fehr's versatility? Sheary's tenacity and higher offensive upside? Certainly not Bryan Rust.

This is a good problem to have, but as a fan of these players who I've come to love, it's quite unfortunate that someone's going to get shafted.

They are very much exploitable. You can find some dumb stat and pump it to make a player look great or horrible. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors and misdirection to it. The proof is the success or failure of a player at the end of the day and how hard he plays and what his real impact is. Kasparitis was never an advanced stats darling by he was such a bastard and stuck to Lemieux so uncomfortably that Mario insisted the Penguins get him on the roster so he didn't have to pay against him any more. His points per 60 were probably around replacement player level yet his impact on the game was undeniable.
- Dcoms

It's a measurement of ability. It is something that adds considerably to the game. The game is not all numbers but what is?

Its a really tough situation to be in. There's a lot of guys that deserve a spot and not enough spots. Sundqvist is all but guaranteed to go to WBS. My guess is that Wilson won't start the season with a spot due to recency bias and still being waver exempt. Think they'll let him get his sea legs back in WBS, but then after that first injury call up, if he plays how he did last season before going down, it'll be tough to take him out of the lineup. You add Vesey and there's yet another guy that has to sit out. Who do you pick? Its a tough call. Kuhnhackl's steadiness? Fehr's versatility? Sheary's tenacity and higher offensive upside? Certainly not Bryan Rust.

This is a good problem to have, but as a fan of these players who I've come to love, it's quite unfortunate that someone's going to get shafted.
- Victoro311

I guess this is why I find it unnecessary to throw Vesey into the fold.

I guess it's just a weird situation to be in because the Pens don't really have a 3rd line. It's either Geno's 2nd line or Cullen's 4th line these guys would be playing on.

Kuhnhackl SHOULD NOT be bumped out of the lineup under any circumstances. Relatively speaking he excelled more at his role than any of the call-ups. 5G/10A/15PTS in 42 games playing the fourth line? I know he can play RW as well, but Rust would be universally foolish to bump out of the lineup.
- Rinosaur

I agree on Kunhackle 100%. I think he exceeded expectations on a monumental level. He brings a different skill set to the team as well. A year ago Inwould have said he's never going to be an NHL player but Sully saw something in him, mainly his aptitude for blocking shots, but TK was a goal scorer when he played in the OHL for Windsor, Windsor, Sarnia, and London are all about an hour from my house so they are all local teams and teams I am very familiar with. I once thought Kuhnhackle would be an NHL star because he had skills but here he is as a defensive player. But on the PK especially if he gets away from the offense he can put it away. He's a keeper.

It's a measurement of ability. It is something that adds considerably to the game. The game is not all numbers but what is?
- powerhouse

Nothing, that is my point. Just calculus and accounting are exclusivly numbers. It's not a measurement of ability so much as a measurement of usage and opportunity.

I guess this is why I find it unnecessary to throw Vesey into the fold.
- Rinosaur

I mean, its not necessarily needed, just like we didn't really need Matt Cullen back or to a lesser extent Justin Schultz, but that's how you win championships. Getting a bunch of accessory parts that aren't crucial when isolated but when you add up everything together it makes the team dominant. Take Nick Bonino for example. We didn't need Nick Bonino. Matt Cullen is obviously a perfectly capable 3C and Fehr is a perfectly capable 4C, and Hagelin and Kessel are top 6 guys who were playing very well with Malkin before Geno went down. Without Bonino we'd have a pretty standard roster certainly capable to contend and possibly win a Cup. But HBK ended up being a game breaker that ultimately insured our championship.

So you're right. We don't need Vesey, but IMO, all of the WB5 guys are capable to good bottom 6 players but none have shown that they can be reliable top 6 guys. Sheary kind of proved he wasn't ideal for a top 6 role mostly due to how easy he was to grind down as games piled on top of each other, Rust showed flashes on Malkin's line but his finishing ability needs to improve substantially for him to be anything more than a stop gap on Malkin's wing, Wilson got hurt before he could get going so who knows, and I don't think Kuhnhackl or Sundqvist have any top 6 potential at all. It'd be great to hedge our bets by throwing in one more guy into the conversation as possible top 6 material.