Very valid point.
- onehundredlevel

Thanks.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's something wrong here if the Hawks aren't developing guys in the Rock to be able to play on the first and second line. If that's the case, than they're failing at player development.

It seems that whenever people talk about the Hawks prospects, they're always said to be third or fourth line guys. I just can't believe that. I think it's more an unwillingness to put guys on the first or second line; instead, always looking for the aging vet or "hot topic" Vesey type.

I think the solution can be in Rockford if they have patience to let a guy work through his growing pains and catch his groove.

I think the Vesey signing sweepstakes says more about the state teams like the Hawks are in concerning the cap. There isn't another way to acquire -what could be a significant contributor- for less cap space. That's why the Euro signings and those out of the NCAA are a big deal to those up against the cap...plus the draft but not easy to find 1st unit players drafting deep into the 1st round.

......If a pleasant surprise happens like a Panarin the GM can buy some time before the next big money contract that will sting.
- Al

That's a good point, Al.

We have desjardin...and Tootoo.....we do not need mash...
- southernhawk

Not saying we need him, just saying that it wasn't just Q that wanted him in the lineup.

I will just say this:

The swap out above SHOULD mean improvement on D—Campbell (at minimum) may upgrade one of the PP units.

The question is, how much does it improve the D, in what ways and in what situations, and then how much does THAT impact some pretty anemic 5-on-5 numbers last year.

No matter how good the D and the goaltending are, if you are as reliant as the Hawks were last year on one line for your scoring, you are in trouble come playoff time. Too many playoff teams can matchup your top line with a great d pairing and a shutdown forward line.

Truth is, last year's Hawk club was weaker upfront than the 2015 team that won the Cup, most notably at LW. And that is even WITH the addition of Panarin.

You can argue (as some have) that Toews and Hossa fell off a cliff on their own, and maybe that's why some think the "answer" is to bump Hossa down to 3RW and "replace" him with Hinostroza (jeebus). But the truth is, you have five bona fide top 6 forwards on this team (and that includes Toews and Hossa). Where the year before last, you really had 6:

Sharp, Saad, Toews, Hossa, Kane, Richards.

And you had two lines that together presented HUGE matchup problems for the OTHER team.

Personally, I think both Toews and Hossa had off years (and yes, I do think Hossa has better than last year in him still), but the revolving door on the left side did NOT help at all.

What you don't need a repeat of is another year long amateur hour talent call on that line.
- John Jaeckel

A better D core that can transition to offense is not going to really help bottom 6 plugs who can't put the puck in the net. No one in our current bottom 6, except maybe Schmaltz, has the skill to pot 15 goals next year. That is a problem when you have a gaping 1LW hole. You can't have Toews line that struggles to score and a scoring challenged bottom 6.

I love all of these crazy opinions on where Vesey will go. I am sure the Hawks are not concerned about the salary cap in this situation and I am quite sure the Stan's pitch was come to Chicago play in a great hockey city with great players and if you do not like it after 2 years we will trade you to the team you want to play for! Pretty simple and playing on the first or second line he will score and his value will go up for his next contract ala Saad and the Hawks will cash out also with picks. It is a win win situation.

Thanks.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's something wrong here if the Hawks aren't developing guys in the Rock to be able to play on the first and second line. If that's the case, than they're failing at player development.

It seems that whenever people talk about the Hawks prospects, they're always said to be third or fourth line guys. I just can't believe that. I think it's more an unwillingness to put guys on the first or second line; instead, always looking for the aging vet or "hot topic" Vesey type.

I think the solution can be in Rockford if they have patience to let a guy work through his growing pains and catch his groove.
- Hank3Henshaw

Not even first line guys. Really the need is solid second line guys. Haven't been able to do that.

I love all of these crazy opinions on where Vesey will go. I am sure the Hawks are not concerned about the salary cap in this situation and I am quite sure the Stan's pitch was come to Chicago play in a great hockey city with great players and if you do not like it after 2 years we will trade you to the team you want to play for! Pretty simple and playing on the first or second line he will score and his value will go up for his next contract ala Saad and the Hawks will cash out also with picks. It is a win win situation.
- Sn1362

That's a very simplistic, wide-eyed idea of what probably happened. Haha.

The Hawks should absolutely be concerned about the cap and I don't think it's as easy as you make it out to be to guarantee a player you'll trade him wherever he wants to go. There's so many factors that go into a trade, that it's nearly impossible to guarantee that.

Thanks.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's something wrong here if the Hawks aren't developing guys in the Rock to be able to play on the first and second line. If that's the case, than they're failing at player development.

It seems that whenever people talk about the Hawks prospects, they're always said to be third or fourth line guys. I just can't believe that. I think it's more an unwillingness to put guys on the first or second line; instead, always looking for the aging vet or "hot topic" Vesey type.

I think the solution can be in Rockford if they have patience to let a guy work through his growing pains and catch his groove.
- Hank3Henshaw

This...ALL of this!!!!!! The fact that guys who can light it up in Rockford (McNeil comes to mind, but is just one example) aren't even given a shot most of the time with the Hawks is very concerning.

This...ALL of this!!!!!! The fact that guys who can light it up in Rockford (McNeal comes to mind, but is just one example) aren't even given a shot most of the time with the Hawks is very concerning.
- Murph76

It is harder to develop top line talent with lower draft pick though. The cost of continually winning.

I tweeted yesterday the Hawks are still a frontrunner, which seems correct but doesn't mean he is coming here.

The people I have talked to have mentioned there is a variety of opinion from scouts as to Vesey's upside.

I have no opinion at all on how good he can be or is right now. But someone who is very connected with a number of hockey scouts did say to me last week there isn't a strong consensus......but a wide range of opinion.
- Al

Brian Burke had an interesting and predictable opinion yesterday - NCAA players overall coming into the league recently have had a total impact about the size of a pimple on an elephant's rear end.
Apparently he isn't interested in signing Vesey.

FWIW the Hockey news has Chicago finishing fourth in the central. As it stands I think I would agree with that.
- HamiltonHawk

I assume those predictions are from the THN yearbook. Need to go to the bookstore and buy it. The THN pool guide had an "Ask the Experts" section asking them 20 different questions with the last one asking their predictions for the Stanley Cup Finals. Here is what the panelists predicted (not sure all of these panelists are experts, but rather personalities with opinions):

Hawks over Caps (Jeremy Roenick)
Caps over Hawks (Peter McNab, Avalanche color analyst)
Caps over Ducks (Jamie McLennan)
Caps over Hawks (Louis Jean, TVA Sports)
Hawks over Caps (Corey Hirsch)
Penguins over Hawks (Patrick Lalime)

Take these predictions with a grain of salt, but summary: 5 of 6 panelists had Hawks in the Finals with 2 of those 5 having the Hawks taking the Cup again.

While I think the Hawks are a few forwards away from being true Cup contenders, I don't think the Caps are much improved from the year before. They may win the President's Trophy again but I predict they will be eliminated by Round 2. I'm sure Caps and other teams' fans could say the same of the Hawks, and that's fair as things stand today.

Brian Burke had an interesting and predictable opinion yesterday - NCAA players overall coming into the league recently have had a total impact about the size of a pimple on an elephant's rear end.
Apparently he isn't interested in signing Vesey.


- RickJ

Burke doesn't need to take a chance because he hasn't been connected with a franchise that has won anything or has any significant cap issues since the Ducks.

Bill Meltzer's HB read on Vessey is simple and clearly the most sane accounting of the situation I have seen. I think he will be really good, a good addition to whatever team he chooses. Only 41 players scored 60 points last year. 8 teams did not have a 60 point scorer. If he hits 50 points that would be a great year. The fact that this is dragging on for so long causes the buildup and makes it seem like he is going be a Stamkos, Crosby, Kane, or Ovechkin from the first day he steps on the ice. I do not think so. Well done Bill!

It is harder to develop top line talent with lower draft pick though. The cost of continually winning.
- JRoenick97

I agree but developing those 2nd/3rd line tweeners would be nice. 40-50 pt guy that can play a two way game. Kind of what McNeil was supposed to be. We hit on the top line guys twice. Panarin and Saad. To want that kind of player developed too is asking a lot. Can only hit the jack pot so many times.

I assume those predictions are from the THN yearbook. Need to go to the bookstore and buy it. The THN pool guide had an "Ask the Experts" section asking them 20 different questions with the last one asking their predictions for the Stanley Cup Finals. Here is what the panelists predicted (not sure all of these panelists are experts, but rather personalities with opinions):

Hawks over Caps (Jeremy Roenick)
Caps over Hawks (Peter McNab, Avalanche color analyst)
Caps over Ducks (Jamie McLennan)
Caps over Hawks (Louis Jean, TVA Sports)
Hawks over Caps (Corey Hirsch)
Penguins over Hawks (Patrick Lalime)

Take these predictions with a grain of salt, but summary: 5 of 6 panelists had Hawks in the Finals with 2 of those 5 having the Hawks taking the Cup again.

While I think the Hawks are a few forwards away from being true Cup contenders, I don't think the Caps are much improved from the year before. They may win the President's Trophy again but I predict they will be eliminated by Round 2. I'm sure Caps and other teams' fans could say the same of the Hawks, and that's fair as things stand today.
- AEL_Fox

I wish all the clowns on the Hotstove thread calling me a homer could see this. Cuz today, I don't see the Hawks coming out of the West or anything near it.

Thanks.

The point I'm trying to make is that there's something wrong here if the Hawks aren't developing guys in the Rock to be able to play on the first and second line. If that's the case, than they're failing at player development.

It seems that whenever people talk about the Hawks prospects, they're always said to be third or fourth line guys. I just can't believe that. I think it's more an unwillingness to put guys on the first or second line; instead, always looking for the aging vet or "hot topic" Vesey type.

I think the solution can be in Rockford if they have patience to let a guy work through his growing pains and catch his groove.
- Hank3Henshaw

Every time I see comments like this, I remember that Jamie Benn was drafted 129th, Shaw 139th (after two undrafted years), Shea Weber at 49th, etc. Yes, Shaw came up through the Hawks system, but are the same people who helped him do that helping the current players? Expectations on the Hawks are obviously higher than on some other teams (Hawks = win now v. rebuilding), but you won't know what you actually have unless they are given a legit shot.

I wish all the clowns on the Hotstove thread calling me a homer could see this. Cuz today, I don't see the Hawks coming out of the West or anything near it.
- John Jaeckel

The only thing interesting about those predictions is just 1 person picked the Pens to come out of the East. But as Bettman trumpeted it's almost impossible to repeat.

I wish all the clowns on the Hotstove thread calling me a homer could see this. Cuz today, I don't see the Hawks coming out of the West or anything near it.
- John Jaeckel

Unless they add a guy (Hudler?), I'm not sure just shoring up the D carries them through the playoffs having lost Shaw and TT. Unless one (or 2) of the young guys is a home run. I wouldn't bet my whole season on that. Best sign Hudler.

Well, as it stands today, the Hawks are about as thin upfront as they have been in several years. The defense and the G is about as good as as it's been in several years.

But anyone buying in to the "Top 6 is set, it's only the bottom 6 that needs help" mantra needs to seriously get real.

Still need a top 6 LW in the worst way.

Gotta wait and see because I believe that the fact that Hudler has not signed anywhere yet has a lot to do with the Vesey situation and he will likely end up with one of the "runners up," and likely that one will be a perennial playoff team. Could easily be the Hawks.
- John Jaeckel

at the trade deadline last year hawks were the consensus deepest forward group in the league...aahh that did not work out so well...now they are wet tissue thin and toews has no wingers...another sub 60 pt season for him and if the dynamic duo of 72/88 come back to earth....look out below

at the trade deadline last year hawks were the consensus deepest forward group in the league...aahh that did not work out so well...now they are wet tissue thin and toews has no wingers...another sub 60 pt season for him and if the dynamic duo of 72/88 come back to earth....look out below
- bogiedoc

I think they should focus on having a deeper forward group from the get go. Toews even commented on how it was hard to get chemistry in such a short time.

Well, as it stands today, the Hawks are about as thin upfront as they have been in several years. The defense and the G is about as good as as it's been in several years.

But anyone buying in to the "Top 6 is set, it's only the bottom 6 that needs help" mantra needs to seriously get real.

Still need a top 6 LW in the worst way.

Gotta wait and see because I believe that the fact that Hudler has not signed anywhere yet has a lot to do with the Vesey situation and he will likely end up with one of the "runners up," and likely that one will be a perennial playoff team. Could easily be the Hawks.
- John Jaeckel

Well you tell me which looks better:

Panarin-Anisimov-Kane
Panik-Toews-Hossa

or...

XXX-Kruger-XXX
Desjardins-XXX-XXX
XXX= Tootoo, Schmaltz, Motte, Rasmussen, Lundberg, Mashinter, Hinostroza, etc.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the top 6 is currently in better shape than the bottom 6.

If we get Vesey or Hudler and plug them in with Toews and Hossa and that bumps Panik down the lineup it might help, but the bottom 6 will still be relatively weak compared to a top 6 that's among the leagues best. I'd argue that right now, even without a set LW for Toews and Hossa that the Hawks top 6 is among the leagues best. Bottom 6 not so much.

at the trade deadline last year hawks were the consensus deepest forward group in the league...aahh that did not work out so well...now they are wet tissue thin and toews has no wingers...another sub 60 pt season for him and if the dynamic duo of 72/88 come back to earth....look out below
- bogiedoc

What was very frustrating though is that we didn't really figure out the right line combos until midway through the Blues series. Had all those games at the end of the regular season to figure it out and get guys like Weise, Panik, and Ladd on the right lines, and just couldn't do it.

According to various sources on Twitter, UND's Thomas DiPauli will sign with the Penguins. I wonder what (if any) connection this would have with the Vesey situation.

Michael Grosso ‏@RumorBreak 9m9 minutes ago
#BREAKING - Jimmy Vesey has signed with the Las Vegas team. 1 year $12M deal.


(yes...this guy was making a joke)

ichael Grosso ‏@RumorBreak 9m9 minutes ago
#BREAKING - Jimmy Vesey has signed with the Las Vegas team. 1 year $12M deal.


(yes...this guy was making a joke)
- DarthKane

Well played, my friend...well played