Pens out??
Per@ESPNJoeyMac
The Pittsburgh Penguins have re-signed veteran forward Matt Cullen to a one-year deal worth $1 million, the team...

Also NYR just signed a college UFA dman.

EDIT:
Per general fanager on Twitter:
With Cullen at 1 yr @ $1M, #Pens are $3.3M above the cap currently (14F/7D/2G), with Dupuis as $3.75M LTIR option.

generalfanager.com/pens
- Marlowe

No, Pens not out based on cap space. What people need to realize is that Vesey costs virtually no cap space (that is until his bonuses are earned, which might hurt cap space the following year).

He will be signed to a contract at something like $925k. If he makes the NHL roster, he will take the place of some other player sent to the minors, which player is probably earning $700-900k. So worst case, Vesey replacing a $700k player has a $200k effect on the cap.

In every case, when discussing a signing, you need to calculate the cap impact by subtracting, say, $800k for the guy he replaces. So a signing of Bullfrog (a Christmas Story nod for those paying attention) for $1.5m probably hits the cap about $700k.

This will come down to what I said awhile ago....Big fish small pond or smaller fish in a bigger pond.

The "pond" being the team not the city...The allure of Toronto is the mystic of the mecca of hockey-If that matters more to Vesey that's where he will end up because Babcock and Shanny can be persuasive.

I will stick with Chicago.
- Al

And that over-zealous Toronto sports media. Leafs seem like they can never get a break from them.

No, Pens not out based on cap space. What people need to realize is that Vesey costs virtually no cap space (that is until his bonuses are earned, which might hurt cap space the following year).

He will be signed to a contract at something like $900k. If he makes the NHL roster, he will take the place of some other player sent to the minors, which player is probably earning $700-900k. So worst case, Vesey replacing a $700k player has a $200k effect on the cap.

In every case, when discussing a signing, you need to calculate the cap impact by subtracting, say, $800k for the guy he replaces. So a signing of Bullfrog (a Christmas Story nod for those paying attention) for $1.5m probably hits the cap about $700k.
- Cmonalready

You're not wrong, but it's easy to read in to Cullen being signed the day after the Pens talk to Vesey for almost an identical cap number he would have had.

And that over-zealous Toronto sports media. Leafs seem like they can never get a break from them.
- 93Joe

Yeah, they helped drive out Kessel (a US guy), who then became what many considered the MVP of the 2015-16 playoffs, didn't they?

No, Pens not out based on cap space. What people need to realize is that Vesey costs virtually no cap space (that is until his bonuses are earned, which might hurt cap space the following year).

He will be signed to a contract at something like $900k. If he makes the NHL roster, he will take the place of some other player sent to the minors, which player is probably earning $700-900k. So worst case, Vesey replacing a $700k player has a $200k effect on the cap.

In every case, when discussing a signing, you need to calculate the cap impact by subtracting, say, $800k for the guy he replaces. So a signing of Bullfrog (a Christmas Story nod for those paying attention) for $1.5m probably hits the cap about $700k.
- Cmonalready

This is "true", but not completely valid. You need to stay within a certain amount including the bonuses. I think it's like 8% or 10% over the cap including all bonuses, but obviously under the cap with just salary. So for instance, the Hawks, up against the cap, wouldn't be allowed to have 4 salaries like Panarin because the maximum earned with bonuses on each would take them over the threshold....so in the Pens case, you'd have to see who else they have on their team with performance bonuses. The Hawks are going to be right at the number if he signs here between him, Panarin and Campbell. Not to mention the other rookies that may make the squad that have performance bonuses in their deals.

Edit - 7.5% over the cap including potential bonuses is as high as a team can go during the year.

You're not wrong, but it's easy to read in to Cullen being signed the day after the Pens talk to Vesey for almost an identical cap number he would have had.
- JRoenick97

Fair. Sort of like the tea leaves we'd all be reading if the Hawks sign Hudler tonight.

You're not wrong, but it's easy to read in to Cullen being signed the day after the Pens talk to Vesey for almost an identical cap number he would have had.
- JRoenick97

And @AndyGraz_SNY - Andy Graziano (covers the Isles) just tweeted this:
Source just told me Vesey camp has told two teams they are out - #isles not one of them.

Sorry. Going to be a little harsh here, but this Vesey thing is such a work.

I think he's known exactly where he's signing for a long time. The rest is just speculation to heightened drama for when he announces.

Hopefully for him, he can live up to the hype and deliver once the (in)decision is finally made.

Don't see vesey going to Boston. Boston boys know the struggles. Player once told me "I'd need two phones and drink myself outta the league"
@overload_hockey
1h

"Still hearing the Hawks are the frontrunner in Vesey sweepstakes. If he doesn't mind being a small fish in a bigger pond imo he comes here."
@AlCimaglia
3:37PM 8/17/16

"Source close to Vesey to me earlier today: "Boston a longshot. Boston kids generally don't do well back home & he is acutely aware of that."
Jimmy Murphy @MurphysLaw74
2:46PM 8/17/16

Not sure if any of these have been posted in here yet. Fwiw

Supposedly friends/family with other teams...

IMO-Comes down to how he can create the most value for his second contract.
The Saad example has to be strongly considered by the Vesey camp...

But to be clear I'm not comparing the two as I don't have a real feel for Vesey's ability.
- Al

My thoughts exactly--- a team - coach and system that allows him to develop into a star and get paid--- he isn't that yet and no one knows if he will become one--

The only drawback I see is that he will have to play Nashville regularly after spurning them--- that will really be the only 'bright lights' he will face until playoff time surrounded by multiple future HOF players and Cup winners--

Boston will be huge pressure for him as will hockey media frenzy Toronto (who should focus on Austin Matthews) Vesey can ease into the NHL on a team like the Blackhawks-- and as he develops look into his next steps when that time is up-- maybe by then one of the 'family connected teams will actually make the playoffs--

I would also add the allure of Scotty Bowman -- maybe the most legendary of all the names being mentioned-- far more accomplished than anything Toronto can trot out--

http://www.theplayerstrib...mmy-vesey-harvard-hockey/

just going to leave this here

Are you talking about impact by year progression or comparing last season to their career average with those numbers? Because especially for Hossa, you really should be looking at year-to-year decline (or a rolling average of a 3-5 year span comparison would be okay). Can you also explain where you get your P60 percentage decline numbers? Using hockeyanalysis, the ev P60 break down for Toews and Hossa for the last 3 seasons are:

Toews
P60 2.35 - 2.15 - 1.58
TOI 15:44 - 14:47 - 15:33

Hossa
P60 2.10 - 1.98 - 1.23
TOI 14:43 - 14:42 - 13:44

3 year span is still pretty similar, though I included TOI because it's important to note that Hossa's TOI at ev this last year was down a minute which fluffs his P60 stats a little. Another interesting stat to look at is IPP - individual points percentage, the percentage of goals scored while player was on ice that the player had a point on. Hossa and Toews have both remained consistent over the last few seasons despite because while they're not getting as many goals for other factors, they're being effected in a similar way by those factors. Toews has actually increase his IPP a bit because he's a more versatile, can-do-it himself kind of player at this point in his career. IPP for both at ev are:

Toews: 66.7 - 75.5 - 76.9
Hossa: 70 - 68.5 - 68.0

Shot location and passing stats are a part of the tracking projects that are more accurate than scrubbing sits like behindthenet, and average distance isn't necessarily going to be specific enough. Compare shots located by zone is more exact for this discussion imo. It's obvious that Hossa's shot skill has declined, but that decline is being exaggerated some by the fact he's taking more shots from farther out and getting less 'good' passes, I propose. Your observation that he is wasting chances is also correct imo, but the reason is likely due to him taking more of those shots now than he did in close previous years in Chicago, for whatever reason (could totally be your rationale, it's difficult to fully know).

Please note that I am in no way saying that Hossa's goal scoring has not declined due to age - it definitely has. But this whole discussion was started as an argument about Hossa's supposed status as a 3rd liner, which is just false base on most metrics. He may be next year, who knows, but he wasn't there yet last year. Goal scoring is definitely the area that seems to have taken the largest hit for Hossa, though his overall numbers are still top 6 worthy.

For those interested, here are some vizualization of per 60 stats and possession rates over the last few years for Toews and Hossa. The decline for per 60 is more a dip only last year, outside of goal scoring, but that other metrics are close with a soft and expected decline.

Toews:

Hossa:


PS. I agree with your last statement, but not to like any great bounce - I don't think he'll ever top 8-9% sh unless he magically clicked with someone of Kane's passing ability on his line.
- L_B_R

The stats I was referencing were yr over yr even strength points per game according to Hockey-reference.

Are you talking about impact by year progression or comparing last season to their career average with those numbers? Because especially for Hossa, you really should be looking at year-to-year decline (or a rolling average of a 3-5 year span comparison would be okay). Can you also explain where you get your P60 percentage decline numbers? Using hockeyanalysis, the ev P60 break down for Toews and Hossa for the last 3 seasons are:

Toews
P60 2.35 - 2.15 - 1.58
TOI 15:44 - 14:47 - 15:33

Hossa
P60 2.10 - 1.98 - 1.23
TOI 14:43 - 14:42 - 13:44

3 year span is still pretty similar, though I included TOI because it's important to note that Hossa's TOI at ev this last year was down a minute which fluffs his P60 stats a little. Another interesting stat to look at is IPP - individual points percentage, the percentage of goals scored while player was on ice that the player had a point on. Hossa and Toews have both remained consistent over the last few seasons despite because while they're not getting as many goals for other factors, they're being effected in a similar way by those factors. Toews has actually increase his IPP a bit because he's a more versatile, can-do-it himself kind of player at this point in his career. IPP for both at ev are:

Toews: 66.7 - 75.5 - 76.9
Hossa: 70 - 68.5 - 68.0

Shot location and passing stats are a part of the tracking projects that are more accurate than scrubbing sits like behindthenet, and average distance isn't necessarily going to be specific enough. Compare shots located by zone is more exact for this discussion imo. It's obvious that Hossa's shot skill has declined, but that decline is being exaggerated some by the fact he's taking more shots from farther out and getting less 'good' passes, I propose. Your observation that he is wasting chances is also correct imo, but the reason is likely due to him taking more of those shots now than he did in close previous years in Chicago, for whatever reason (could totally be your rationale, it's difficult to fully know).

Please note that I am in no way saying that Hossa's goal scoring has not declined due to age - it definitely has. But this whole discussion was started as an argument about Hossa's supposed status as a 3rd liner, which is just false base on most metrics. He may be next year, who knows, but he wasn't there yet last year. Goal scoring is definitely the area that seems to have taken the largest hit for Hossa, though his overall numbers are still top 6 worthy.

For those interested, here are some vizualization of per 60 stats and possession rates over the last few years for Toews and Hossa. The decline for per 60 is more a dip only last year, outside of goal scoring, but that other metrics are close with a soft and expected decline.

Toews:

Hossa:


PS. I agree with your last statement, but not to like any great bounce - I don't think he'll ever top 8-9% sh unless he magically clicked with someone of Kane's passing ability on his line.
- L_B_R

The stats I was referencing were yr over yr even strength points per game according to Hockey-reference.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jimmy-vesey-harvard-hockey/

just going to leave this here
- Slofire94

Nice read -- kid seems to have a good head on his shoulders. I expect he'll be fine, no matter where he ends up.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jimmy-vesey-harvard-hockey/

just going to leave this here
- Slofire94

Maybe he ain't such a putz.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/jimmy-vesey-harvard-hockey/

just going to leave this here
- Slofire94

Does seem to have his head on straight. After having such a fun collegiate career it remains to be seen if he's complacent or if he's itching for a new challenge. A guy in his shoes might need some time to decompress before he revs it back up again. No matter who winds up with him, I suspect the team and he himself will need an ample dose of patience.

Not to trash him, as he has very recently had some success, but Grosso has also been on twitter recently saying how the Leafs are #1 for Vesey with the Bruins a close #2 and the Hawks were a darkhorse in about #5.
A week later he changed his tune to put the Hawks at #1 with the Rangers as a darkhorse. 2 days ago he said that Toronto was now leading the race, and then 1 day ago, he mentioned the Islanders as well, before his last update with the Hawks as front runners for his signature

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but with the retirement of #11 up in Ottawa, does anyone think that maybe Hossa could be the next number they retire up there? The 5+ million cap hit (with a 1 mil salary) must look mighty appetizing to the Sens owner after this season.

Could there be some deal worked out to then bring him back to Chicago as a team rep?

Not to trash him, as he has very recently had some success, but Grosso has also been on twitter recently saying how the Leafs are #1 for Vesey with the Bruins a close #2 and the Hawks were a darkhorse in about #5.
A week later he changed his tune to put the Hawks at #1 with the Rangers as a darkhorse. 2 days ago he said that Toronto was now leading the race, and then 1 day ago, he mentioned the Islanders as well, before his last update with the Hawks as front runners for his signature
- AusHawk

Nice if you can cover every base....

Nice if you can cover every base....
- Al

at this rate, most teams in the league are meeting/giving a strong push/proposing/offering a contract.

Equality and parity for all!!

Nice if you can cover every base....
- Al

Even a stopped clock....

But - where do all these guys get their "predictions" from - who are the sources sources?

Are they talking to friends? Cousins? Acquaintances? Someone who knew the kid's father in junior high school?

Nice if you can cover every base....
- Al

Yeah--- can't lose then---

Something else that crossed my mind-- I wonder if Jimmy Vesey was at the Garden for game 6 and 17 seconds--- it was a sight to witness and the way the Hawks and especially the captain-- fought back and stole the Cup--- what a night and performance-
unbelievable really--

I wonder -- Did it break Jimmy's heart to see his hometown team Bruins go down like that?

Or did it leave an indelible mark on him of the talent, character and winning pedigree of the Hawks?

Weise: "I don't know why I didn't play..."


http://www.letsgohawks.ne...ago-was-a-frustrating-ex/

maybe if he had produced a bit more, he would have played more....

Weise: "I don't know wy I didn't play..."


http://www.letsgohawks.ne...ago-was-a-frustrating-ex/

maybe if he had produced a bit more, he would have played more....
- wiz1901

I hear ya Wiz but Mashtaters over Weise cost the Blackhawks a playoff series

Even a stopped clock....

But - where do all these guys get their "predictions" from - who are the sources sources?

Are they talking to friends? Cousins? Acquaintances? Someone who knew the kid's father in junior high school?
- StLBravesFan

In this situation I think that you aren't far off.