so it for the hawks it has come down to chasing a college free agent to play with toews in hopes of finding lightening in bottle similar to panarin....that shows how bad the hawks have been hurt by salary cap purges: gone sharp, saad, shaw, TT and Bickell (career ending slide) = potential 200 plus points combined and in return anisimov....

expecting kruger suddenly become a 35-40 point guy cuz he makes 3 mildo per is absurd....and with hossa now regressing to a 3rd line 40 point guy...they not only need 1LW they need a 1RW...

yeah i know i am great big eyeore...but this team looks to have the same problems as last year: mediocre 5 on 5, 1 line that can score, maybe slightly improved defensively...

in his final year with the hawks #50 will have to stand on head again for the hawks to have a chance...

in his final year with the hawks #50 will have to stand on head again for the hawks to have a chance...
- bogiedoc

Here we go again The move Crawford narrative to rescue all that ails the team...

Sorry, but not only would it be monumentally stupid to move him, but you still have to find another #1 AND #2 goalie with that $6MM before you can invest in anyone else.

Won't be enough left over, and your goalie situation becomes worse.

And then that pesky NMC thing which CC has already used to nix the deal to Calgary.

for those wondering a bout the red font printed above
We all decided some time back that sarcasm should be in the color red...

To be in color, Bracket
- wiz1901[ "color=red" in Place what you did in the front and bracket[ slash/ color ((( /color )))close bracket]"

Vesey is gonna be better than Gretzky

Thanks Wiz! I saved a copy of the how to together with a copy of the red font text taken from quote view. Appreciate the tutorial!

I think the Defense if more then slightly improved. You have removed Gus and Bladder and added Campbell and a top line Assistant Captain on a good Czech team. I hate that they play Hammer and keith together. I would prefer
Keith-Seabs
Kempny-hammer
Soupy-TVR.

Billy , Im sure you've stated it somewhere in this this thread , but where do you see Vasey as an NHL forward ?

Ive seen a lot of lazy "Remember Drew Lebllahhh" comparisons because of the Hoby . But isnt Vesey a much better skater and have much better hands then our boy Drew LeBlahh ?
- mrpaulish

I believe my comparison is on page two of this blog.
Vesey is a guy who reads and can churn his legs and get to full spped pretty quick. He's very fluid in his circles and more importantly while "circling" has that ability to read and lean into the soft areas and quickly shoot pucks.

We all will agree that no matter if you came from Russia KHL, Swedish Elite, or us Ivy league / USA juniors, the NHL goalies and the gusy in front of them make it very difficult to score, where that freeze of the goalie, and cross pass, or open man pass is the way to score.
He is thick, and solid on those skates. He has shown a confidence and ability to be a perimeter shooter, and paint scorer, and breakaway scorer, and an unselfish set up man. All this doesn't mean poop to a tree if his next team doesn't teach him every step of the way, and moreover prop him up, in much the way they continued to do so with Tevo, to try and keep him positive during his struggles to play a bit heavier, and grittier...they made sure TT was instantly reinforced positively when he made solid defensive or offensive plays, was solid in positional coverages etc.

And Vesey isn't looking to be under the biggest spotlight WHILE learning to ply his trade in the NHL, and as much as this UFA process seems drawn out and is portraying him as a untested fuss budget, he has got a bit of that Toews mild seriousness to him.

I will repaste that earlier Vesey scouting report here below in a second, but you don't have to look any further than Marko Dano as a template for the skills Vesey must have that Dana was unable to provide at the speed of the pro level:
Recognition, handling hard passes and quickly advancing them intelligently because he reads the situations correctly, and strong wall game without taking penalties in contact...just getting many of those pucks (with stick placement and body english)
and buffering pucks to squelch breakouts, and being an energetic Q disciple when the opponents get pucks back. None of the newbies play (Rook or vet) if they don't understand and work very very hard in the other direction smartly.


Vesey has finished his summer league, and can pack up his belongings and move to Buffalo right now, if he wants to.

This weekend.

No waiting, no summer long negative reaction to his decision in Boston.

so if he was decided on them he would be there and the fact he isn't looks more like "nice try Buffalo, than a leaning toward that as a destination.

I am still trying to get my head around the "Vesey will be the man" comment.
So to answer
Assman22,
We got to see Brandon Saad as an USAH-NTDP prospect in competition and then as a Saginaw OHL player, and there were some striking similarities.
Remember, I clearly had reservations Saad would adjust to the faster pace and even getting to the right places. (Many of us here did.)
He did he showed excellent first two steps and learned quickly to position his stick and lean into contact.
Vesey will need to be a better body player than he ever had to be college/international play.
I think we all wondered about Saader’s ability to actually capitalize after using the speed. He fit well with his linemates and learned well from the coaching.
Vesey’s showings with the USA team were pretty good ones and even though his Harvard stats showed plenty of goals against, it is clear he shoots the puck extremely well, understands where to go to make opportunities for himself and is actually a real good board possession player.

We never seen him at this much higher level, and it easy to say he moves well, has a excellent get up as an attacker and is very smooth and able to maneuver around college players like they are pylons, it will be earnest and ability to be a strong checker in the pro game to actually hold onto a top six position, no matter which team. He’s no dummy and can climb the learning curve. He will have to play big in the big boy league, and adjust might take a lot quicker than fanboy’s calling him “the man.”around "Jimmy Vesey will be the man" where he goes to play.

Maybe they stand pat and trade for another "Ladd" at the trade deadline for that 1L hole. With the upgraded "D" it could work out just fine.
- onehundredlevel

Ladd cost them Dano and a 1st; Weise and Fleischmann cost them Danault and a 2nd.

Who's left to give up this time - Schmaltz? Motte? It would probably have to be one of those, PLUS a first round pick for someone who could come in to play 1LW. It's not like the Hawks are loaded with top-6 prospects - or draft picks.

And we saw how well the TDL moves went last spring (didn't make it to summer).

Get your team done now - unless they think one of the kids can take over 1LW on October 12 (and I wouldn't be too confident of that), they need to do something else - they can't rely on a TDL move.

RePost:

Serious question. Do any players actually want to help and be part of the solution to win a cup or do they always want to take the easy rout and just go to the team that won the cup last?
- Doug50

Answer:

What if you can do both?

Who the coach is, how the team is coached and the style they play might be a factor.

It is very nice to think Jimmy Vesey (or any untested rookie) has the ability & upsdie to eventually score and garnish those fat contracts after the initial ones.

And we HAVE seen variuos organizations throw big contracts at on the job training potential / upsdie players...but that was when the Cap was continuing to rise and rise consistently.

I think it is safe to say that any youngster has to have on-ice success and more importantly production to garnish the fatter long term deals later on.

So don't disregard the core of players he is surrounded by, and how they help and share in generating the rookie chances as well and those impact players capitalizing on Vesey's passes to boost his assists too.

So where would provide the best NOW linemates to help him produce, gorw and learn?

I am pretty much getting tired of the various fan posters trying to provide these arguments for and against (including me, lol).

I think the kid has an idea, and what you try and post negative about the Chicago franchise bounces of the reality that the league now openly sees it as one of the best landing points for players, new, or veteran.

I am guessing we have to be optimistic that he is not going to develop into Blake Wheeler, unless he gets even bigger and more intense.

and I am fairly certain he shoots the biscuit more accurately than Kevin Hayes, and has more jump.

But all that opinion is worth little until we see how he meshes, grows, and thrives in his next step.

We can go through the lists of college UFAs from the past but it's tough to not respect the four years in a tremendous program with excellent coaching and trying to compare getting a kid like this from that tall list of college UFAs in the past doesn't help gauge comparisons.

The biggest thing is thriving in the environment with the team and staff and handling this pressure to improve...

so it for the hawks it has come down to chasing a college free agent to play with toews in hopes of finding lightening in bottle similar to panarin....that shows how bad the hawks have been hurt by salary cap purges: gone sharp, saad, shaw, TT and Bickell (career ending slide) = potential 200 plus points combined and in return anisimov....

expecting kruger suddenly become a 35-40 point guy cuz he makes 3 mildo per is absurd....and with hossa now regressing to a 3rd line 40 point guy...they not only need 1LW they need a 1RW...

yeah i know i am great big eyeore...but this team looks to have the same problems as last year: mediocre 5 on 5, 1 line that can score, maybe slightly improved defensively...

in his final year with the hawks #50 will have to stand on head again for the hawks to have a chance...
- bogiedoc

Hossa did not put up 3rd line numbers last year - his PPG (tied for 32 in the league for RWs) and all his underlying numbers say he's still outputting at a solid to great 2nd line level (which is more than fine sine Kane is the top RW on the team). The exaggeration of Hossa's decline to being a bottom 6 player just sound silly tbh.

I believe my comparison is on page two of this blog.
Vesey is a guy who reads and can churn his legs and get to full spped pretty quick. He's very fluid in his circles and more importantly while "circling" has that ability to read and lean into the soft areas and quickly shoot pucks.

We all will agree that no matter if you came from Russia KHL, Swedish Elite, or us Ivy league / USA juniors, the NHL goalies and the gusy in front of them make it very difficult to score, where that freeze of the goalie, and cross pass, or open man pass is the way to score.
He is thick, and solid on those skates. He has shown a confidence and ability to be a perimeter shooter, and paint scorer, and breakaway scorer, and an unselfish set up man. All this doesn't mean poop to a tree if his next team doesn't teach him every step of the way, and moreover prop him up, in much the way they continued to do so with Tevo, to try and keep him positive during his struggles to play a bit heavier, and grittier...they made sure TT was instantly reinforced positively when he made solid defensive or offensive plays, was solid in positional coverages etc.

And Vesey isn't looking to be under the biggest spotlight WHILE learning to ply his trade in the NHL, and as much as this UFA process seems drawn out and is portraying him as a untested fuss budget, he has got a bit of that Toews mild seriousness to him.

I will repaste that earlier Vesey scouting report here below in a second, but you don't have to look any further than Marko Dano as a template for the skills Vesey must have that Dana was unable to provide at the speed of the pro level:
Recognition, handling hard passes and quickly advancing them intelligently because he reads the situations correctly, and strong wall game without taking penalties in contact...just getting many of those pucks (with stick placement and body english)
and buffering pucks to squelch breakouts, and being an energetic Q disciple when the opponents get pucks back. None of the newbies play (Rook or vet) if they don't understand and work very very hard in the other direction smartly.


Vesey has finished his summer league, and can pack up his belongings and move to Buffalo right now, if he wants to.

This weekend.

No waiting, no summer long negative reaction to his decision in Boston.

so if he was decided on them he would be there and the fact he isn't looks more like "nice try Buffalo, than a leaning toward that as a destination.

I am still trying to get my head around the "Vesey will be the man" comment.
So to answer
Assman22,
We got to see Brandon Saad as an USAH-NTDP prospect in competition and then as a Saginaw OHL player, and there were some striking similarities.
Remember, I clearly had reservations Saad would adjust to the faster pace and even getting to the right places. (Many of us here did.)
He did he showed excellent first two steps and learned quickly to position his stick and lean into contact.
Vesey will need to be a better body player than he ever had to be college/international play.
I think we all wondered about Saader’s ability to actually capitalize after using the speed. He fit well with his linemates and learned well from the coaching.
Vesey’s showings with the USA team were pretty good ones and even though his Harvard stats showed plenty of goals against, it is clear he shoots the puck extremely well, understands where to go to make opportunities for himself and is actually a real good board possession player.

We never seen him at this much higher level, and it easy to say he moves well, has a excellent get up as an attacker and is very smooth and able to maneuver around college players like they are pylons, it will be earnest and ability to be a strong checker in the pro game to actually hold onto a top six position, no matter which team. He’s no dummy and can climb the learning curve. He will have to play big in the big boy league, and adjust might take a lot quicker than fanboy’s calling him “the man.”around "Jimmy Vesey will be the man" where he goes to play.
- wiz1901[/quote


Sounds good enough to go all out to aquire. Cheaap talent that could workout maybe. The Hawks need as many of those types as possible.

Ladd cost them Dano and a 1st; Weise and Fleischmann cost them Danault and a 2nd.

Who's left to give up this time - Schmaltz? Motte? It would probably have to be one of those, PLUS a first round pick for someone who could come in to play 1LW. It's not like the Hawks are loaded with top-6 prospects - or draft picks.
- StLBravesFan

Pokka, Svodka, Hino, draft picks, etc.

Hossa did not put up 3rd line numbers last year - his PPG (tied for 32 in the league for RWs) and all his underlying numbers say he's still outputting at a solid to great 2nd line level (which is more than fine sine Kane is the top RW on the team). The exaggeration of Hossa's decline to being a bottom 6 player just sound silly tbh.
- L_B_R

His overall game is certainly still at a top-6 level, but at some point, top sixers have to score some goals - especially when your line mates aren't.

2014-15: 11 goals 5X5, 8.9% overall shooting percentage (82 games)
2015-16: 8 goals 5X5, 6.8% overall shooting percentage (64 games)

And in 2014-15, 7 of his 22 total goals came in a 4 game stretch in February.

His career shooting percentage is 12.3% - the last two years represent a dramatic drop.

I would tend to dismiss last year as a bad year goal-wise - but it was the second in a row. To my eyes, it seems to be his approach to shooting - still trying to score the same ways he did earlier in his career - low along the ice, 5-hole - when he actually tried something different in last April's series against the Blues, he did score 3 goals.

I'm hopeful he learned something from last spring - what was working when he was younger - and goalies perhaps didn't cover the ice as well - hasn't worked for a couple of years.

But - it's still two years of declining goals scoring.

Pokka, Svodka, Hino, draft picks, etc.
- Assman22

We are not trading draft picks this year. Draft is in Chicago.

We are not trading draft picks this year. Draft is in Chicago.
- kmw4631

Agreed. Politically and for the future of the team.

The present roster is pretty good. Agreed as of this second there are a couple of holes at Forward but the D and G are very very very good.

so it for the hawks it has come down to chasing a college free agent to play with toews in hopes of finding lightening in bottle similar to panarin....that shows how bad the hawks have been hurt by salary cap purges: gone sharp, saad, shaw, TT and Bickell (career ending slide) = potential 200 plus points combined and in return anisimov....

expecting kruger suddenly become a 35-40 point guy cuz he makes 3 mildo per is absurd....and with hossa now regressing to a 3rd line 40 point guy...they not only need 1LW they need a 1RW...

yeah i know i am great big eyeore...but this team looks to have the same problems as last year: mediocre 5 on 5, 1 line that can score, maybe slightly improved defensively...

in his final year with the hawks #50 will have to stand on head again for the hawks to have a chance...
- bogiedoc

Hawks scored 134 goals 5X5 last year - 1.6 per game.

They have lost 26 of those (TT=11, Shaw=10, Ladd=5) to player movement, leaving a current roster that scored about 108 goals 5X5 last year.

If they want to get to 2.0 per game (a reasonable championship-level goals, I would think) - or 164 - that means they have to find another 56 goals from somewhere:

Rebound seasons by a couple of players (Toews, only 11 last year; Hossa, only 8 last year; Kruger at 0 last year)

Young players picking up some of the slack (Schmaltz, Motte, Hinostroza, McNeil)

New guys coming in (not Campbell - can expect maybe 5/6 from him; Vesey? How much can you expect from a college guy in his first pro experience? Hudler or some other retread?)

Breaking away from the Vesey Show for a minute, does anyone have an opinion on what Gaudreau (and, to a lesser but definitely related extent, Monahan) will get from Calgary? I expect Gaudreau's contract may help establish a market for Panarin, and if he gets $7M AAV, that could spell trouble for the Hawks and their attempts to sign #72.

Anything specific Al ?
- mrpaulish

Concerning?

so it for the hawks it has come down to chasing a college free agent to play with toews in hopes of finding lightening in bottle similar to panarin....that shows how bad the hawks have been hurt by salary cap purges: gone sharp, saad, shaw, TT and Bickell (career ending slide) = potential 200 plus points combined and in return anisimov....

expecting kruger suddenly become a 35-40 point guy cuz he makes 3 mildo per is absurd....and with hossa now regressing to a 3rd line 40 point guy...they not only need 1LW they need a 1RW...

yeah i know i am great big eyeore...but this team looks to have the same problems as last year: mediocre 5 on 5, 1 line that can score, maybe slightly improved defensively...

in his final year with the hawks #50 will have to stand on head again for the hawks to have a chance...
- bogiedoc

Also, banking on the Campbell signing to"line" the defensive pairing up and slot player effectively...Because his acquisition will need to reflect a tighter defense.

Concerning?
- Al

Chips on Hawks and Vesey

Nice piece about why Vesey is a good fit for the Hawks and especially vice versa.
http://thehockeywriters.c...is-about-fit-over-talent/

Nice piece about why Vesey is a good fit for the Hawks and especially vice versa.
http://thehockeywriters.c...is-about-fit-over-talent/
- Marlowe

Thanks for sharing. This line kind of puts it all in (depressing) perspective, considering we're talking about our 1st line:

all the Blackhawks would need from Vesey is for him to play better than Richard Panik — at least for the short-term.

- Quicky72

Tick Tock

Tick Tock
- gnosox1986

“It’s certainly not going to be tomorrow,” Fish told the Associated Press’ John Wawrow. “I would say the earliest may be Friday or Saturday, but I wouldn’t expect it to drag on much into the following week.

That is from Vesey´s agent. So don´t hold your breath yet

Colorado signed Ben Smith to a 1 year deal. No word on the cap hit yet.