Yeah JVR gets you a better D man.
- Feds91Stammer

Who would that be?

Who would that be?
- Garnie

Depends. What are your parameters? Age? Shot? Etc?

Is there anyway to find a chart with Fowler over the past few years with his different defensive pairings? Last year, he played primarily with Bieksa and Bieksa was...not great.

Fowler needs to be paired with someone who can stay at home and help cover. A puck moving defensemen shouldn't be moving the puck up and look up and see his partner ahead of everyone else trying to lead everything.

Is there anyway to find a chart with Fowler over the past few years with his different defensive pairings? Last year, he played primarily with Bieksa and Bieksa was...not great.

Fowler needs to be paired with someone who can stay at home and help cover. A puck moving defensemen shouldn't be moving the puck up and look up and see his partner ahead of everyone else trying to lead everything.
- CptAhab

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2013-16&sit=5v5

Really, James? JVR for Fowler is terrible for the Leafs?

You obviously haven't watched Fowler very often. There is no way JVR lands you a defenseman like Fowler.
- Bruiniak

you cant talk to my best friend like that, apologize

Is there anyway to find a chart with Fowler over the past few years with his different defensive pairings? Last year, he played primarily with Bieksa and Bieksa was...not great.

Fowler needs to be paired with someone who can stay at home and help cover. A puck moving defensemen shouldn't be moving the puck up and look up and see his partner ahead of everyone else trying to lead everything.
- CptAhab

Hero charts are best when not looked at exclusively ( or at all )

Year prior to last he had Ben Lovejoy most times and Fowler played the other teams top lines.

Hero charts are best when not looked at exclusively ( or at all )

Year prior to last he had Ben Lovejoy most times and Fowler played the other teams top lines.
- Garnie

Nope. Lindholm.

Bieksa, Fowler, Vatanen, and Manson had nearly identical 5v5 mins
- Feds91Stammer

He had the most PP minutes on the league’s best PP

He was 4th (top 4 all pretty close) in SH time on the league’s best PK

He had the 2nd most ES minutes on the league’s 2nd best shot attempt team.

I have a hard time believing that Anahiem were as good as they were despite Fowler being as bad as those charts say.

And if Anahheim won in spite of fowler playing a prominent role, boudreau deserved every bit of his firing.

Fowler held the Lord himself ( McDavid ) to ZERO shots in 15 mins of ice time 5v5...that must account for something...all while carrying a 35 yr old around as his partner.
- Garnie[/q

Well said -

- Feds91Stammer

don't you dare watch any games...stick to your charting and guessing.

He had the most PP minutes on the league’s best PP

He was 4th (top 4 all pretty close) in SH time on the league’s best PK

He had the 2nd most ES minutes on the league’s 2nd best shot attempt team.

I have a hard time believing that Anahiem were as good as they were despite Fowler being as bad as those charts say.

And if Anahheim won in spite of fowler playing a prominent role, boudreau deserved every bit of his firing.
- Tumbleweed

Let's compare players who play different roles against diff comp with diff QOT...and then tell everyone it all works out over time. I'd like to believe its that easy...but common sense tells me it's not.

why would the Coyotes not make a play for Jiri Hudler?

Let's compare players who play different roles against diff comp with diff QOT...and then tell everyone it all works out over time. I'd like to believe its that easy...but common sense tells me it's not.
- Garnie

hey buddy

Hero charts are best when not looked at exclusively ( or at all )

Year prior to last he had Ben Lovejoy most times and Fowler played the other teams top lines.
- Garnie

why would the Coyotes not make a play for Jiri Hudler?
- DoubleDown

Heard he wants a rusty trombone as a signing bonus

hey buddy
- DoubleDown

hello DD, I hope the Habs light up the league this year....shut up the PK fans

He had the most PP minutes on the league’s best PP

He was 4th (top 4 all pretty close) in SH time on the league’s best PK

He had the 2nd most ES minutes on the league’s 2nd best shot attempt team.

I have a hard time believing that Anahiem were as good as they were despite Fowler being as bad as those charts say.

And if Anahheim won in spite of fowler playing a prominent role, boudreau deserved every bit of his firing.
- Tumbleweed

The point is the HERO charts show his production is bottom end 2nd pair and his relative possession numbers are bottom end 3rd pair in a 2nd pair role weighting statistics over the last 3 seasons. Nobody is saying he is bad but us stats nerds are suggesting that he is more of a #4 D man than the top pair guy some people are making him out to be and with 414 NHL games under his belt it wouldn't be a stretch to say he may have already reached his ceiling.

- DeflatedPucks

the year before that year

Let's compare players who play different roles against diff comp with diff QOT...and then tell everyone it all works out over time. I'd like to believe its that easy...but common sense tells me it's not.
- Garnie

QOT and QOC don't vary as much as you would think over the course of a season

http://public.tableau.com...mbed=y&:display_count=yes

I will say Fowler had very strong zone exit numbers during the playoffs

http://public.tableau.com...mbed=y&:display_count=yes

The point is the HERO charts show his production is bottom end 2nd pair and his relative possession numbers are bottom end 3rd pair in a 2nd pair role weighting statistics over the last 3 seasons. Nobody is saying he is bad but us stats nerds are suggesting that he is more of a #4 D man than the top pair guy some people are making him out to be and with 414 NHL games under his belt it wouldn't be a stretch to say he may have already reached his ceiling.
- Feds91Stammer

You kind of are, but you're right. Fowler isn't that good.

Fowler is in that group of D-men that were leaned on as franchise players at young ages and just never took the next step.

In a proper role he will be a very effective player

However Fowler is not particularly strong at defending his blue line

http://public.tableau.com...mbed=y&:display_count=yes

http://public.tableau.com...mbed=y&:display_count=yes

The point is the HERO charts show his production is bottom end 2nd pair and his relative possession numbers are bottom end 3rd pair in a 2nd pair role weighting statistics over the last 3 seasons. Nobody is saying he is bad but us stats nerds are suggesting that he is more of a #4 D man than the top pair guy some people are making him out to be and with 414 NHL games under his belt it wouldn't be a stretch to say he may have already reached his ceiling.
- Feds91Stammer

Cody Franson's a much better D right?

You kind of are, but you're right. Fowler isn't that good.

Fowler is in that group of D-men that were leaned on as franchise players at young ages and just never took the next step.

In a proper role he will be a very effective player
- sbroads24

I agree. I think if he is more of a second pairing guy, that will be much better, but unfortunately Murray has signed too many players to too long/expensive contracts (Stoner/Bieksa/Despres).

I wish we could keep Fowler, but he will fetch the most return. I'd prefer the Ducks go with:

Lindholm / Manson
Fowler / Vats
Theodore / Despres

But with Bieksa's NMC, we are stuck...for now.

QOT and QOC don't vary as much as you would think over the course of a season

http://public.tableau.com...mbed=y&:display_count=yes
- Feds91Stammer

Of course not...same D playing against Nick Spaling would have the same outcome as playing against Crosby right?

I've read your link....