I'm not trolling at all.

1) The players today have more talent than ever before. Like I said in an above post, 3rd liners today have more talent than Gretzky ever did.

2) The tournament is set up to try and include as many elite players as possible and to provide parity and 'competitive games' by not including weak teams. I don't want to watch Canada whip the poop out of Belarus. Canada vs Grabovski and no name plugs? That doesn't exactly equal high quality hockey.
- Njuice

Let me guess... you also think the NFL Pro-bowl is the best football game of the year... right?

- woopstash

Good argument. You continue to disagree with me without giving ONE single reason - so I will accept that you know I'm right but refuse to admit it.

Let me guess... you also think the NFL Pro-bowl is the best football game of the year... right?
- Vanoxy

THe best football game of the year ... for me... is an oxymoron because I don't care about football. I'll watch highlights, but I won't sit there for 3 hours to watch like 10 minutes of action.

How many people did you get to vote this time Ek? 8,000? 10,000??? Hahaha

You're not understanding the idea of 'talent'. Time travel a 37 year old Wayne Gretzky into the league TODAY and he probably won't even make the team.

Another tiny example of what I mean by talent:

Back in the 80's if you get could give and receive a saucer pass in the NHL you were a rare elite breed. Nowadays if you can't do this by the time you are 12 years forget about it. The players today skate faster, shoot harder, defend better, hit harder, shoot more accurately and handle the puck way better than they did in the past.

edit: just because Gretzky was so much better than his peers at the time, that doesn't mean he holds a candle to the skills of Crosby, Ovy, Kane, etc.
- Njuice

Dude. Pass me the crack pipe, you've had enough for today.

You're not understanding the idea of 'talent'. Time travel a 37 year old Wayne Gretzky into the league TODAY and he probably won't even make the team.

Another tiny example of what I mean by talent:

Back in the 80's if you get could give and receive a saucer pass in the NHL you were a rare elite breed. Nowadays if you can't do this by the time you are 12 years forget about it. The players today skate faster, shoot harder, defend better, hit harder, shoot more accurately and handle the puck way better than they did in the past.

edit: just because Gretzky was so much better than his peers at the time, that doesn't mean he holds a candle to the skills of Crosby, Ovy, Kane, etc.
- Njuice

Not sure what you think talent actually means but you're incorrect. Also not sure what you think a 3rd liner is, but you're also probably wrong.

Solid 3rd line in today's NHL.

Gretzky did his thing through the 90's as well. You act like that was when Maurice Richard was playing. While you were working on your time machine, modern athletes have developed better training and health habits. Also, the medical community has improved its methods of healing substantially. Coaching and schemes also play a major role nowadays. Gretzky played with a wooden stick and a helmet made out of paper mache. None of this has anything to do with talent.

Not sure what you think talent actually means but you're incorrect. Also not sure what you think a 3rd liner is, but you're also probably wrong.

Solid 3rd line in today's NHL.

Gretzky did his thing through the 90's as well. You act like that was when Maurice Richard was playing. While you were working on your time machine, modern athletes have developed better training and health habits. Also, the medical community has improved its methods of healing substantially. Coaching and schemes also play a major role nowadays. Gretzky played with a wooden stick and a helmet made out of paper mache. None of this has anything to do with talent.

- grubshph

It's a fair point about the equipment. But training and conditioning absolutely equal talent through speed and endurance. The things you've said here are exactly what I'm trying to say. Players are better now, because the game continues to progress, as people learn from the players before them.

Players are bigger, faster and stronger than ever before. They pass better, hit harder, puckhandle better, shoot harder quicker and more accurately. But I said it in my first Gretzky/3rd liner comparison post: If Gretzky and others never existed and created new skills and revolutionized the game; then the talent today would not have developed as it has.

The under 23 team has ruined a lot of interest in the tournament outside the Toronto area.

Listening to local radio TSN 1200 last week they were talking about creating a team just to give some Toronto face time. it has been reduced to an exhibition series not unlike the all star game.

The under 23 team has ruined a lot of interest in the tournament outside the Toronto area.

Listening to local radio TSN 1200 last week they were talking about creating a team just to give some Toronto face time. it has been reduced to an exhibition series not unlike the all star game.
- spatso

I can't understand what you are saying. THey were talking about making a team of only Toronto players? How does the under 23 team have anything to do with Toronto?

Who really cares. Just drop the puck and play hockey

Wow how dumb is this? Stop thinking it's not your strong suit, but then again trades and rumors aren't either.
- tpd11

Boy you hit the nail right on the head bro

It's a fair point about the equipment. But training and conditioning absolutely equal talent through speed and endurance. The things you've said here are exactly what I'm trying to say. Players are better now, because the game continues to progress, as people learn from the players before them.

Players are bigger, faster and stronger than ever before. They pass better, hit harder, puckhandle better, shoot harder quicker and more accurately. But I said it in my first Gretzky/3rd liner comparison post: If Gretzky and others never existed and created new skills and revolutionized the game; then the talent today would not have developed as it has.
- Njuice

By your rationale, my 10th grade physics teacher had more "talent" than Einstein because the Theory of Relativity had already been discovered....by franking Einstein. And that at this point, given all the advances in science, that Einstein should have access to via your time travel device, he wouldn't be fit to teach kindergarten kids how to tie their shoelaces. Your definition of talent needs an overhaul.

Someone put a gun to my head and pull the trigger please
- Just5

Agreed. This may be one of the dumbest things EK has stated yet and that is saying something!!

You're not understanding the idea of 'talent'. Time travel a 37 year old Wayne Gretzky into the league TODAY and he probably won't even make the team.

Another tiny example of what I mean by talent:

Back in the 80's if you get could give and receive a saucer pass in the NHL you were a rare elite breed. Nowadays if you can't do this by the time you are 12 years forget about it. The players today skate faster, shoot harder, defend better, hit harder, shoot more accurately and handle the puck way better than they did in the past.

edit: just because Gretzky was so much better than his peers at the time, that doesn't means he holds a candle to the skills of Crosby, Ovy, Kane, etc.
- Njuice

I tend to agree...

But there's no way to prove this tho. The only for sure fact is that the game is much faster and skilled now. The goalies are 100 times better too. Also Wayne was tiny when he came into the league. Marner would make him look like a tyke.

jagr just lead the panthers in scoring at 44.

gretzky would be a 3rd liner

Thats a lot of players who would want to come back home to play for the Leafs

The under 23 team has ruined a lot of interest in the tournament outside the Toronto area.

Listening to local radio TSN 1200 last week they were talking about creating a team just to give some Toronto face time. it has been reduced to an exhibition series not unlike the all star game.
- spatso

?

Thats a lot of players who would want to come back home to play for the Leafs
- DDM-Coga

No.one wants to play for the Laffs. Just look at the Matthews debacle.

The under 23 team has ruined a lot of interest in the tournament outside the Toronto area.

Listening to local radio TSN 1200 last week they were talking about creating a team just to give some Toronto face time. it has been reduced to an exhibition series not unlike the all star game.
- spatso

Dude, just say Laffs, '67, plan the parade.

Jesus....just when I think posters can't get any dumber.....njuice goes and proves me wrong.

By your rationale, my 10th grade physics teacher had more "talent" than Einstein because the Theory of Relativity had already been discovered....by franking Einstein. And that at this point, given all the advances in science, that Einstein should have access to via your time travel device, he wouldn't be fit to teach kindergarten kids how to tie their shoelaces. Your definition of talent needs an overhaul.
- grubshph

Actually the Einstein analogy is perfect. Gretzky was great because he could think the game at a higher level than anyone else. But I guess now, 12 year olds think the game at a higher level than Wayne ever could !! LOL !!!

Actually the Einstein analogy is perfect. Gretzky was great because he could think the game at a higher level than anyone else. But I guess now, 12 year olds think the game at a higher level than Wayne ever could !! LOL !!!
- tincup

Hockey sense is equal to intelligence or aptitude. In that sense it fits with the Einstein analogy. For the comparison to work you'd have to use some middle of the pack physicist. Not a 10th grade teacher, but also not Stephen Hawking. Someone in the middle.

I never said that 3rd liners had better hockey sense than Gretzky although many do because it is learned the positioning, but there is a certain amount of "vision" that can't be learned.(McDavid)

The raw talents are much greater now. Speed, strength, passing, playmaking, stickhandling, shooting, shot blocking, goaltending. Everything.

I first said 3rd liners are more talented than Gretzky to drive home my point that the World Cup will be highest quality hockey that has ever been played.

Can Fowler represents the US internationally. Probably so he has an actual chance of making a team.

I have to agree, a country type tournament is the olympics so these seem like a good way to exploit patriotism. Love your country? You only do if you support these tournaments every time....BS. The ticket sales and merchandise, total cash grab.....F 'em
- PeterThePuck

This tourney started way back in 1976 as the Canada Cup when there was no NHL participation in the Olympics. It was a way to have the best players in the world compete since many were not in the NHL. It, along with the '72 Summit Series and Challenge Cup, produced some of the best hockey ever witnessed.

Problem is that the best players are now in the NHL and we see them on a daily basis so it doesn't have the same appeal for many and has indeed become a way to increase revenues. No doubt about that fact.

I, for one, still love any form of international competition and opportunity to see the best play the best for their country. Will watch both but prefer this North American style tourney over the IIHF governed version.

The under 23 team and Team Europe are a joke tho. Although it is only temporary as they did not have time to implement a proper qualification system for the last two teams. Hence, Team North America and Team Europe.

Team Ontario? Might as well do Quebec and British Columbia while we are at it too!

And then, since the US is so big, we can then do Eastern USA, Central USA, and Pacific USA.

Excuse my ignorance with being American, but why is that it seems as though every area in Canada (when it comes to hockey,) is trying to "section" themselves from the other? You're Canada, represent it as a whole. Canadians live for hockey and curling, embrace it, don't sectionalize it.

As for Team North America, I think its a great idea personally. These young kids nowadays are being a huge hype, and rightfully so. The skill level is extremely high for them, and if anything will only help them in development.
- purepone

Canadians do no "live for curling." That's like saying Americans live for lawn bowling. Just because we are good at it doesn't mean it's popular or anyone gives an f about it.