They are pumping the Hoff up right now to be a coaches dream, they are removing any doubt about Hoff's sandy legacy with Cameron and Walrus about his coach-ability, Dorion is going to get his value as high as he can and flip him out for a big package this summer.

Hoff is a nice piece, but not an essential part of the core IMO

EK, Stone, Turris, Brassard, Ceci, Phaneuf, Methot, Pageau, Lazar, Smith - this is the core of the team that I would keep long term. And White, Chabot, Dahlen, Brown, Perron and Englund seem to be the next wave of core players.
- tuna99

Hoffman, Stone, and Karlsson should be the 3 main pieces to the foundation of Ottawa's core.

Hoffman, Stone, and Karlsson should be the 3 main pieces to the foundation of Ottawa's core.
- Feds91Stammer

I think Ceci, Turris, Brassard and probably even Phanuef and Mthot are more important to wins and losses then Hoffman is. I'd even put Pageau in that group of players that are more important. maybe even maccarthur

Schenn is a decent second line player and that's pretty much where he will stand for the rest of his career. He doesn't show splashes of talent in his game, but he is a well rounded player. Those characteristics are nowhere close to Hoffman if you acutally look at pure raw talent. Stats can show one thing, but other particuliarities of players are great add-ons to have. Hoffman is a very fast and agile skater, draws possession of the puck, hes a great puck carrier, has one of the top shot release in the NHL, scores a lot of goals (in the top 6 of the NHL 5 vs 5).

What are the defining characteristics of Shcenn? I see him as an average second liner with mediocre potential of improving, but not as much as Hoffman does even if the Hoff is older. That potential has to do with the characterisitics the players bring to the game. Schenn is a decent player, but doesn't take a genius to figure out Hoffman is a much better bargain at the same contract amount.
- PtotheY

It's a common theme in this thread. Everything Hoffman does is "elite" because fancy stats say so, even if his results don't support this. Schenn's scoring touch and blend of skill & physicality only adds up to an average second liner. Even though he played in all scoring roles and positions as a top 6 forward and produced strong results. Schenn brings a total package as a top 6 forward, I don't care where he ranks among puck possession, driving of play, puck release or skating speed.

Schenn's production from January 1st on was nearly a point per game. If that wasn't a total fluke, he has much more than just "mediocre" potential to make this contract a bargain.

I think Ceci, Turris, Brassard and probably even Phanuef and Mthot are more important to wins and losses then Hoffman is. I'd even put Pageau in that group of players that are more important. maybe even maccarthur
- tuna99

It's a common theme in this thread. Everything Hoffman does is "elite" because fancy stats say so, even if his results don't support this. Schenn's scoring touch and blend of skill & physicality only adds up to an average second liner. Even though he played in all scoring roles and positions as a top 6 forward and produced strong results. Schenn brings a total package as a top 6 forward, I don't care where he ranks among puck possession, driving of play, puck release or skating speed.

Schenn's production from January 1st on was nearly a point per game. If that wasn't a total fluke, he has much more than just "mediocre" potential to make this contract a bargain.
- Baxter27

How is one a total package if they are not very strong in these areas?

Hoffman>Schenn

I think Ceci, Turris, Brassard and probably even Phanuef and Mthot are more important to wins and losses then Hoffman is. I'd even put Pageau in that group of players that are more important. maybe even maccarthur
- tuna99

Wrong.

It's good to see someone else share my sentiments for Hoffman.

I think the Schenn deal is also pretty solid. He is a big player who can play both wing and centre. That adds to his value.

I think there are a few things that did, or should have kept his contract value down versus Hoffman ( though they are very close in value, so let's not lose sight of things here ):
1 - He doesn't have great advanced stats. I know, that doesn't mean everything, but I'm sure it contributes during contract negotiations these days.
2 - He's only had 1 25+ goal season riding a very hot streak. He's had some decent years in the past so he's unlikely to see his performance drop too far...if at all this year. There's a chance he builds on the past year. Things is, you have trouble using that in negotiations
3 - I believe the number of UFA years being bought is impacting things as well. If I recall, Schenn has 3 more years of RFA before hitting UFA years. Hoffman is going into his last RFA year, and will eat up 3 years of UFA.

I think Ceci, Turris, Brassard and probably even Phanuef and Mthot are more important to wins and losses then Hoffman is. I'd even put Pageau in that group of players that are more important. maybe even maccarthur
- tuna99

Tuna, are you high? Hoffman is the player we expected to have in Ryan; even better than that. The term of the contract suggests that the GM has no intention on trading him. Hoffman was under utilized by Cameron, which is one of the many factors that were considered prior to firing coach Cameron. Also, another factor in solidffying the Guy Boucher selection was his experience and admiration of Hoffman. Hoffman should be our powerplay genius and that's exactlywhat Dorion is hoping will happen with the new coach.

It's a common theme in this thread. Everything Hoffman does is "elite" because fancy stats say so, even if his results don't support this. Schenn's scoring touch and blend of skill & physicality only adds up to an average second liner. Even though he played in all scoring roles and positions as a top 6 forward and produced strong results. Schenn brings a total package as a top 6 forward, I don't care where he ranks among puck possession, driving of play, puck release or skating speed.

Schenn's production from January 1st on was nearly a point per game. If that wasn't a total fluke, he has much more than just "mediocre" potential to make this contract a bargain.
- Baxter27

Cmon' get a grip bud! I'm not saying Schenn isn't worth the money. I am saying Hoffman's deal looks so much better for the sens in comparision. Let's do an exercise, ask any random NHL fans from any other team than sens and flyers to pick the player they rather have on their team. GO!

Tuna, are you high? Hoffman is the player we expected to have in Ryan; even better than that. The term of the contract suggests that the GM has no intention on trading him. Hoffman was under utilized by Cameron, which is one of the many factors that were considered prior to firing coach Cameron. Also, another factor in solidffying the Guy Boucher selection was his experience and admiration of Hoffman. Hoffman should be our powerplay genius and that's exactlywhat Dorion is hoping will happen with the new coach.
- PtotheY

I loved Hoffman when everyone here was saying he was the next Bochenski.

But when you look at his game and the impact on the game, I still think Pageau, Phaneuf have more impact on wins and losses then Hoff. And maybe even Methot, but without questions Ceci, EK, Stone, Turris, Pageau, Phaneuf and Brassard are more important to wins and losses then Hoffman is.

I think the Schenn deal is also pretty solid. He is a big player who can play both wing and centre. That adds to his value.

I think there are a few things that did, or should have kept his contract value down versus Hoffman ( though they are very close in value, so let's not lose sight of things here ):
1 - He doesn't have great advanced stats. I know, that doesn't mean everything, but I'm sure it contributes during contract negotiations these days.
2 - He's only had 1 25+ goal season riding a very hot streak. He's had some decent years in the past so he's unlikely to see his performance drop too far...if at all this year. There's a chance he builds on the past year. Things is, you have trouble using that in negotiations
3 - I believe the number of UFA years being bought is impacting things as well. If I recall, Schenn has 3 more years of RFA before hitting UFA years. Hoffman is going into his last RFA year, and will eat up 3 years of UFA.
- MaxTLimit

We're on the same page about a lot here.

. I agree on similar value but I think potential to improve plays a bigger part during negotiations than advanced stats.

It's his first 25+ goal season but third in and around 20 goals.

Schenn had 2 RFA years left. So 2 UFA years are purchased.

In the end the market got set by some questionable other signings. I think both OTT and PHI made good signings for fair value and smart term.

It's good to see someone else share my sentiments for Hoffman.

- TheCalSen

He's a beast.

They are pumping the Hoff up right now to be a coaches dream, they are removing any doubt about Hoff's sandy legacy with Cameron and Walrus about his coach-ability, Dorion is going to get his value as high as he can and flip him out for a big package this summer.

Hoff is a nice piece, but not an essential part of the core IMO

EK, Stone, Turris, Brassard, Ceci, Phaneuf, Methot, Pageau, Lazar, Smith - this is the core of the team that I would keep long term. And White, Chabot, Dahlen, Brown, Perron and Englund seem to be the next wave of core players.
- tuna99

Tuna...... I value your posts...... in no way is Zack Smith part of the core; especially over Hoffman. That goes with Lazar and Pageau at this time too. The core of this team RIGHT NOW.... is Karlsson, Turris, Brassard (has to be), Methot, Phaneuf, Stone, and then it's Ryan, MacArthur, Hoffman to prove they can lead and prove themselves again. All the other guys are compliments or need to prove to become "core". The Sens are unique in that they don't really have a "big 5" and then a drop in talent. They actually have 1 superstar in Karlsson, then a big drop off to many talented and impactful players. Reminds of Bruins before they won the cup; when Thomas + Bergeron stepped up to become stars

Hoffman's defensive side of the game is an issue and he does seem to have motivation problems from time to time.

That said, Hoffman is the only forward on the Senators that can beat star NHL calibre goaltending from above the faceoff circle with no screen.

In fact, he is probably one of only 15 NHL players with that ability.

His shot is absolutely lethal and he is one of the fastest players in the game. I'm not trying to pile on the Flyers fan, but comparing Schenn to Hoffman is a total joke.

Hoffman was also a late bloomer because he matured late for an NHL player (basically, he's a normal human being an not a freak who hits puberty in elementary school and has a full beard by age 15).

I loved Hoffman when everyone here was saying he was the next Bochenski.

But when you look at his game and the impact on the game, I still think Pageau, Phaneuf have more impact on wins and losses then Hoff. And maybe even Methot, but without questions Ceci, EK, Stone, Turris, Pageau, Phaneuf and Brassard are more important to wins and losses then Hoffman is.
- tuna99

I'm sorry Tuna, but this post is ridiculous.

Pageau is a nice player and he gives it everything he's got (while Hoffman doesn't much of the time), but Hoffman is an absolute game breaker.

Other than EK and possibly Mark Stone with his takeaways and vision, Hoff is by far the most impactful player on the team.

Hoffman's defensive side of the game is an issue and he does seem to have motivation problems from time to time.

That said, Hoffman is the only forward on the Senators that can beat star NHL calibre goaltending from above the faceoff circle with no screen.

In fact, he is probably one of only 15 NHL players with that ability.

His shot is absolutely lethal and he is one of the fastest players in the game. I'm not trying to pile on the Flyers fan, but comparing Schenn to Hoffman is a total joke.

Hoffman was also a late bloomer because he matured late for an NHL player (basically, he's a normal human being an not a freak who hits puberty in elementary school and has a full beard by age 15).
- Charliebox

If Hoffman's lethal shot and elite speed make him such a better point producer than "average Joe" Schenn then why are their offensive numbers so similar?

Do you think Schenn shoots pillows? He has a pretty good shot himself along with his own set of strengths.

Hoffman was a late bloomer because of his attitude. That's why he didn't make his hometown Rangers and couldn't stick with Gatineau.

If Hoffman's lethal shot and elite speed make him such a better point producer than "average Joe" Schenn then why are their offensive numbers so similar.

Do you think Schenn shoots pillows? He has a pretty good shot himself along with his own set of strengths.

Hoffman was a late bloomer because of his attitude. That's why he didn't make his hometown Rangers and couldn't stick with Gatineau.
- Baxter27

They aren't

Hoffman's defensive side of the game is an issue and he does seem to have motivation problems from time to time.

That said, Hoffman is the only forward on the Senators that can beat star NHL calibre goaltending from above the faceoff circle with no screen.

In fact, he is probably one of only 15 NHL players with that ability.

His shot is absolutely lethal and he is one of the fastest players in the game. I'm not trying to pile on the Flyers fan, but comparing Schenn to Hoffman is a total joke.

Hoffman was also a late bloomer because he matured late for an NHL player (basically, he's a normal human being an not a freak who hits puberty in elementary school and has a full beard by age 15).
- Charliebox

I'm sorry Tuna, but this post is ridiculous.

Pageau is a nice player and he gives it everything he's got (while Hoffman doesn't much of the time), but Hoffman is an absolute game breaker.

Other than EK and possibly Mark Stone with his takeaways and vision, Hoff is by far the most impactful player on the team.
- Charliebox

I'd keep Pageau over Hoffman, I think today he's a better hockey player and at age 27 is going to be one of the better 2 way centers in the Eastern Conference.

I think next year Pageau is going to be a bigger impact player for Ottawa then Hoff is.

But I still like Hoff, just like Pageau more.

If Hoffman's lethal shot and elite speed make him such a better point producer than "average Joe" Schenn then why are their offensive numbers so similar.

Do you think Schenn shoots pillows? He has a pretty good shot himself along with his own set of strengths.

Hoffman was a late bloomer because of his attitude. That's why he didn't make his hometown Rangers and couldn't stick with Gatineau.
- Baxter27

Schenn is awesome. I wanted him as our #2LW behind Hoffman, but he doesn't have Hoffman's speed or shot (his are good but not Hoffman level).

With the right #1C Hoffman could be a 40+ goal scorer

I'd keep Pageau over Hoffman, I think today he's a better hockey player and at age 27 is going to be one of the better 2 way centers in the Eastern Conference.

I think next year Pageau is going to be a bigger impact player for Ottawa then Hoff is.

But I still like Hoff, just like Pageau more.
- tuna99

I am a huge Pageau fan. But Pageau is not yet the player that Hoffman i today. he might get there. But not yet.

Schenn is awesome. I wanted him as our #2LW behind Hoffman, but he doesn't have Hoffman's speed or shot (his are good but not Hoffman level).

With the right #1C Hoffman could be a 40+ goal scorer
- Maverick1818

- DeflatedPucks

He's correct. Lemieux turned Rob Brown into a 40 goal scorer. the right C definitely COULD help Hoffman score 40. I think that's a tall order for who he will be playing with, but it isn't outside the realm of possibility. I'd say his likely high water mark for the year is close to 35. That's only 6 above his total this year, so it isn't crazy. When you think about it, 40 is only an additional 11. I don't think bringing Turris back adds THAT much, but it isn't ... crazy for it to happen either. I would be shocked, but not floored if it happened.

He's correct. Lemieux turned Rob Brown into a 40 goal scorer. the right C definitely COULD help Hoffman score 40. I think that's a tall order for who he will be playing with, but it isn't outside the realm of possibility. I'd say his likely high water mark for the year is close to 35. That's only 6 above his total this year, so it isn't crazy. When you think about it, 40 is only an additional 11. I don't think bringing Turris back adds THAT much, but it isn't ... crazy for it to happen either. I would be shocked, but not floored if it happened.
- MaxTLimit

I'[m sure with a guy like Crosby in the middle he could

But in all seriousness, I know its within reach. Just only 4 players hit 40 last year, 3 the year before and 3 the year before that (Ovechkin did all3) With the way scoring is coming down, I'm skeptical