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Forums :: Blog World :: Mike Augello: Leafs Q & A – July 27th Edition
Author Message
the_eye
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.22.2012

Jul 28 @ 1:47 PM ET
Per Chris Johnston on February 26, 2016, Jared Cowen was activated from the Injured Reserve list by the Leafs.
https://twitter.com/repor...status/703248151327727616

---

A Player placed on the Injured Reserve List will be ineligible to compete in NHL
Games for a period of not less than seven (7) days from the date of the injury, illness or disability for which the Player was placed on the Injured Reserve List. A Player will be eligible for activation to play in NHL Games beginning on the 8th day following the date of injury, illness or disability for which the Player was placed on the Injured Reserve List or any day thereafter that the Player is medically cleared to play by the Club physician. The Club must notify Central
Registry, the NHLPA and the Player, in accordance with Exhibit 3, of its intent to activate a Player who is on the Injured Reserve List, or to remove the designation of Injured Non-Roster, prior to the Player playing in an NHL Game by way of a verification signed by the Club physician, and countersigned by a Club executive, attached as Exhibit 28-B.


NHL CBA, pg. 104
http://www.nhl.com/nhl/en...12/NHL_NHLPA_2013_CBA.pdf

---

Per Exhibit 28-B of the CBA, which as noted above is required to bring a player off IR:

It is my determination that as of this day ____________

- Deeps27[date] the Player________________ (Player name) on_____________________(Club name) is not disabled and is able to perform his duties as an NHL hockey Player, which duties include playing in NHL Games.


Please activate the Player from Injured Reserve or remove his designation as Injured Non-Roster status, as appropriate.

Looks to me like he was on the road to recovery based simply on the fact he was taken off IR prior to the deadline.


Pg. 382 of the NHL CBA.

---

Your move. Seems cut and dry to me.

Well if a specialist tells someone they need the surgery then I would think that they pretty much need the surgery.
You seem to think that he should have waited just to save the Leafs money.
winsix
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine
Joined: 04.03.2016

Jul 28 @ 1:50 PM ET
thanks buddy!


- Tanooki



Watch this, it's definitely funnier than super Mario.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_w4MV_LwMw
RickJames77
Boston Bruins
Location: We’re Too Old, Boston
Joined: 04.03.2013

Jul 28 @ 1:51 PM ET
Let's consult this guy (Not Bruinsiak):



the_eye
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.22.2012

Jul 28 @ 1:52 PM ET
I gotta be honest, if I'm Lou and Co. I take my post 8th from the top of this page, print it, hand it to the Arbitrator and walk out of the room.

Case closed.

NHL front offices obviously make trades based on info on this site, why not arbitration hearings too?

- Deeps27

Again, Lots of players are cleared to play and then go on to have off season surgery.
Scabeh
Montreal Canadiens
Location: The Slovakian Jagr, QC
Joined: 02.25.2007

Jul 28 @ 1:53 PM ET
Let's consult this guy (Not Bruinsiak):




- RickJames77


I like this guy's opinion better:


winsix
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Henry Hudson's Fairchild 24 South Porcupine
Joined: 04.03.2016

Jul 28 @ 1:55 PM ET
Well if a specialist tells someone they need the surgery then I would think that they pretty much need the surgery.
You seem to think that he should have waited just to save the Leafs money.

- the_eye



lumlums
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 06.25.2011

Jul 28 @ 1:57 PM ET
Let's consult this guy (Not Bruinsiak):




- RickJames77



He's an awesome doc, just like this guy...


Also, nice (frank)ing code...
Tanooki
Location: Professional propagandist, Val D’or
Joined: 06.28.2016

Jul 28 @ 1:57 PM ET
OK Lets

You had a problem with my avatar - didn't like or see this movie?



- winsix

ive seen it..

but idk... its kinda lame..
Deeps27
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 07.08.2007

Jul 28 @ 1:57 PM ET
Well if a specialist tells someone they need the surgery then I would think that they pretty much need the surgery.
You seem to think that he should have waited just to save the Leafs money.

- the_eye

Not at all. His employer and the physicians they employ medically cleared him to resume his NHL career in February. To participate in practices and games. He was asked to go home and rest and wait next steps when they were unable to trade his contract at the deadline. Any action after that date, specifically elective surgery, is not of concern to the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I don't personally care whatsoever about Jared Cowen or his hip issues, nor do I particularly care how his contracts status affects the Leafs. Facts are facts, and he should be healthy based on the latest data the Leafs had on his medical condition at the time he was cleared to resume activities.

Any sustained injury - legit or not - was not related to his employment by an NHL club.
Deeps27
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 07.08.2007

Jul 28 @ 1:57 PM ET
Again, Lots of players are cleared to play and then go on to have off season surgery.
- the_eye

And their team clears/approves it. He did this to save $3M. I don't blame him, but don't tell me it's kosher.
vermie22
Joined: 07.13.2011

Jul 28 @ 1:58 PM ET
Not at all. His employer and the physicians they employ medically cleared him to resume his NHL career in February. To participate in practices and games. He was asked to go home and rest and wait next steps when they were unable to trade his contract at the deadline. Any action after that date, specifically elective surgery, is not of concern to the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I don't personally care whatsoever about Jared Cowen or his hip issues, nor do I particularly care how his contracts status affects the Leafs. Facts are facts, and he should be healthy based on the latest data the Leafs had on his medical condition at the time he was cleared to resume activities.

Any sustained injury - legit or not - was not related to his employment by an NHL club.

- Deeps27


you seriously don't see a potential conflict of interest there?
the_eye
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.22.2012

Jul 28 @ 2:00 PM ET
And their team clears/approves it. He did this to save $3M. I don't blame him, but don't tell me it's kosher.
- Deeps27

Maybe, just maybe he got the surgery early in the hope of being ready for training camp.
vermie22
Joined: 07.13.2011

Jul 28 @ 2:01 PM ET
And their team clears/approves it. He did this to save $3M. I don't blame him, but don't tell me it's kosher.
- Deeps27


there is no way the team is required to approve any surgery/treatment.
the_eye
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.22.2012

Jul 28 @ 2:02 PM ET
Not at all. His employer and the physicians they employ medically cleared him to resume his NHL career in February. To participate in practices and games. He was asked to go home and rest and wait next steps when they were unable to trade his contract at the deadline. Any action after that date, specifically elective surgery, is not of concern to the Toronto Maple Leafs.

I don't personally care whatsoever about Jared Cowen or his hip issues, nor do I particularly care how his contracts status affects the Leafs. Facts are facts, and he should be healthy based on the latest data the Leafs had on his medical condition at the time he was cleared to resume activities.

Any sustained injury - legit or not - was not related to his employment by an NHL club.

- Deeps27

If I was a professional hockey player I wouldn't not have the surgery I needed just because a Leaf GP said so.
RickJames77
Boston Bruins
Location: We’re Too Old, Boston
Joined: 04.03.2013

Jul 28 @ 2:02 PM ET
He's an awesome doc, just like this guy...


Also, nice (frank)ing code...

- lumlums

Nothing but the finest for lumlums
Morris_Wanchuk
Location: Palm Isle
Joined: 02.05.2016

Jul 28 @ 2:04 PM ET
A second opinion is one thing, but when you are a paid professional athlete you have a responsibility to inform your employer of any health decisions you take that will affect your availability to be employed by them.
If your employer says you are medically cleared to return to work and you want to return to work, you normally return to work; if your employer says he intends on firing you once you are cleared to work, suddenly you determine, without telling their Drs, you weren't ready after all.....sounds at least a little dodgy
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 28 @ 2:04 PM ET
Maybe, just maybe he got the surgery early in the hope of being ready for training camp.
- the_eye



How did he get it done early if he waited all this time?
Deeps27
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Canada, ON
Joined: 07.08.2007

Jul 28 @ 2:04 PM ET
Again, Lots of players are cleared to play and then go on to have off season surgery.
- the_eye

Exhibit 25-A - pg. 372 of NHL CBA:

NHL/NHLPA Fitness to Play Determination Form
(Applicable for Club Physician/Player Physician/ Independent Physician)
Name of Physician:
____________________________

Select one of the following: Club Physician or Player Physician or Independent Physician
Player Name:

_____________________________
Club Name: _____________________________
Identify nature of Player's injury, illness, condition or complaint:

_____________________________
Select one of the following:
[ ] It is my determination that as of this day the Player is disabled and unable to perform his duties as an NHL hockey Player, which duties include playing in
NHL Games.

[ ] It is my determination that as of this day the Player is not disabled and is able to perform his duties as an NHL hockey Player, which duties include playing in NHL Games.

Signature of Physician: ________________

Date: ______________________________

cc: Player NHL Club NHLPA Player's Certified Agent

Message to Player:
You have the right to seek a second opinion from a physician of your choice regarding your Club Physician’s determination of your fitness to play. You must advise the Club that you want a second opinion by 5:00 pm New York time on the third day after the electronic notice is sent to you by the Club. However, if the form is sent to you after 5:00 pm New York time, then you have until 5:00 pm New York time on the fourth day to notify the Club. You should consult with your Certified Agent and the NHLPA.


---

Shall we assume Cowen provided this notice back in February disputing he was medically able to return to the NHL and the Leafs figured they could buy him out anyways? I don't buy it.

EDIT: I have yest to come across any provision in the CBA that states "yeah, go ahead and have whatever surgery you want to correct a non-existent injury."
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 28 @ 2:04 PM ET
there is no way the team is required to approve any surgery/treatment.
- vermie22


Find that hard to believe.
the_eye
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.22.2012

Jul 28 @ 2:05 PM ET
A second opinion is one thing, but when you are a paid professional athlete you have a responsibility to inform your employer of any health decisions you take that will affect your availability to be employed by them.
If your employer says you are medically cleared to return to work and you want to return to work, you normally return to work; if your employer says he intends on firing you once you are cleared to work, suddenly you determine, without telling their Drs, you weren't ready after all.....sounds at least a little dodgy

- Morris_Wanchuk

He has no responsibility at all, he was sent home and was told they will no longer be his employer.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 28 @ 2:05 PM ET
A second opinion is one thing, but when you are a paid professional athlete you have a responsibility to inform your employer of any health decisions you take that will affect your availability to be employed by them.
If your employer says you are medically cleared to return to work and you want to return to work, you normally return to work; if your employer says he intends on firing you once you are cleared to work, suddenly you determine, without telling their Drs, you weren't ready after all.....sounds at least a little dodgy

- Morris_Wanchuk



the_eye
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 07.22.2012

Jul 28 @ 2:06 PM ET
How did he get it done early if he waited all this time?
- burn

He had it done before the first buy out window.
burn
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Tavares is sledge hockey level - Islesrbettr, ON
Joined: 08.02.2006

Jul 28 @ 2:07 PM ET
He has no responsibility at all, he was sent home and was told they will no longer be his employer.
- the_eye


He was still (and still is)their employee and the decisions he makes affect them. He certainly does have obligation....... Or else they have no obligation to pay him.
vermie22
Joined: 07.13.2011

Jul 28 @ 2:07 PM ET
A second opinion is one thing, but when you are a paid professional athlete you have a responsibility to inform your employer of any health decisions you take that will affect your availability to be employed by them.
If your employer says you are medically cleared to return to work and you want to return to work, you normally return to work; if your employer says he intends on firing you once you are cleared to work, suddenly you determine, without telling their Drs, you weren't ready after all.....sounds at least a little dodgy

- Morris_Wanchuk


If he was cleared to play and healthy, they why did the leafs refuse to play him? because they didn't want to risk aggravating the existing injury. doesn't sound like a healthy athlete to me and sounds a bit dodgy to me.
Morris_Wanchuk
Location: Palm Isle
Joined: 02.05.2016

Jul 28 @ 2:08 PM ET
He has no responsibility at all, he was sent home and was told they will no longer be his employer.
- the_eye

Sure he does, he can decide on any surgery he personally wants but HE HAS to inform the team that owns his rights of it....he didn't by all accounts....
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