It may well, which is why I want a strong possession guy like Read on his line. It's obvious that Hextall and his guys targeted Gordon. Just have to hope that their analysis of him trumps the data and views we have.
- Jsaquella

It is worth noting, since I'm all about dat fairness, over the last 2 seasons, when score adjusted, Gordon's relative possession stats in Arizona come at basically dead neutral. For a 4C, that isn't close to bad. Compare that to someone who isn't even used that difficultly like PEB who clocks in at negative 5%. Gordon does actually grade as a good shot suppressor. Offensively....yeah, but we know his role. Frankly, even if he does get 4C -- and I still advocate I'd like competition -- I don't want him starting something quite so absurd like an 80-20 ratio d/o zone faceoffs. That's extreme, and I don't want to see his linemates, like perhaps Read, get bogged down quite to that extent. He can do yeoman's work without being Atlas. I want a bottom line that can put up points too.

My guess here is, as I said earlier, that they view the PK issues as a result of poor execution or personnel, rather than scheme, because they retained Laperriere. They loaded up on more B6 options here, too, which tells me they are going to really have a competition-outside of guys like Wiese.

It is worth noting, since I'm all about dat fairness, over the last 2 seasons, when score adjusted, Gordon's relative possession stats in Arizona come at basically dead neutral. For a 4C, that isn't close to bad. Compare that to someone who isn't even used that difficultly like PEB who clocks in at negative 5%. Gordon does actually grade as a good shot suppressor. Offensively....yeah, but we know his role. Frankly, even if he does get 4C -- and I still advocate I'd like competition -- I don't want him starting something absurd like an 80-20 ratio d/o zone faceoffs. That's extreme, and I don't want to see his linemates, like perhaps Read, get bogged down quite to that extent. He can do yeoman's work without being Atlas.
- Mononoke

I get the reservations and even agree to an extent. But I think that after the way they targeted him and Hexy's comments, he's written in ink. Hopefully they are right.

- Mononoke

I think it was a little from column A and a little from column B, myself. There were some replacement level fringe guys killing penalties. But I saw a lot of the same breakdowns regardless of the players on ice.

I get the reservations and even agree to an extent. But I think that after the way they targeted him and Hexy's comments, he's written in ink. Hopefully they are right.
- Jsaquella

I looked up the vaunted Betts and Hall to see how they did adjusted relative possession wise in minutes comparable to Gordon, and they both finished heavily in the negatives (like -5 to -6%). Gordon was even. Fun facts.

I think it was a little from column A and a little from column B, myself. There were some replacement level fringe guys killing penalties. But I saw a lot of the same breakdowns regardless of the players on ice.

Hard to feel too sorry for Lappy complaining about personnel when he let guys who grade out as very good PK'ers, like Laughton and Raffl, rot on the bench so VDV, PEB, and especially White could get regular minutes. But yeah, the personnel will be better. But if they want to do the cluster-(frank)-the-goalie-blocking-shots strategy again, good luck.

I looked up the vaunted Betts and Hall to see how they did adjusted relative possession wise in minutes comparable to Gordon, and they both finished heavily in the negatives (like -5 to -6%). Gordon was even. Fun facts.



Hard to feel too sorry for Lappy complaining about personnel when he let guys who grade out as very good PK'ers, like Laughton and Raffl, rot on the bench so VDV, PEB, and especially White could get regular minutes. But yeah, the personnel will be better. But if they want to do the cluster-(frank)-the-goalie-blocking-shots strategy again, good luck.
- Mononoke

Yeah, I don't feel sorry for Lappy. I was actively hoping he'd get shuffled off to development or scouting, but here we are.

Thing that drove me nuts about their scheme was, how often we'd see two on one down low. If it was designed that way, it's awful, but if it just occurred why was it never corrected?

My view of Gordon has always been that, at bare minimum, he would be a wash for PEB/VDV in terms of shot metrics and provide a better FO option, especially on the PK. But I get the negative feelings people have for him. I'd rather it be a full on open competition myself. I just don't think it will be

Thing that drove me nuts about their scheme was, how often we'd see two on one down low. If it was designed that way, it's awful, but if it just occurred why was it never corrected?
- Jsaquella

In my head right now all I see are flashes of Gudas and Schultz getting scored 2 on 1.

Our pk was the rare breed that managed to play passive and sit back and still huge open seams across the slot area. It was something.

In my head right now all I see are flashes of Gudas and Schultz getting scored 2 on 1.

Our pk was the rare breed that managed to play passive and sit back and still huge open seams across the slot area. It was something.
- Mononoke

Hextall is reserved and close to the vest. His comments about a core player were more about what is a core player, rather than a comment on Brayden Schenn.
- MJL

I agree. I like that he makes players feel like they still have more to prove despite handing out multi year deals to them. Hextall is smart

I can't wait for hockey to smart. The smell of fall can't come soon enough

I agree. I like that he makes players feel like they still have more to prove despite handing out multi year deals to them. Hextall is smart
- funmaster18

And I think he is showing it. The bottom 6 needed to be upgraded. So he gets guys like Weise and Gordon. They might not be the top names people think about but he saw that the PK and bottom 6 wasn't good enough so he brought in depth. If Vandevelde isn't good in camp I don't think Hextall will miss a beat in sending him to AHL. I actually think Read is close to maybe joining MacDonald there if he doesn't get off to a fast start.

Read is the new Umberger.
- flyer_nutter

Not to drone on, or single out your post, MB, but we see it everywhere. I tried hunting for the Burtsch tweets I referenced earlier, but scoring is down. 65 points-or scoring at a 65 point pace- is elite level production.

Look around. Chicago's 4th leading scorer had 49 points. 5th leading scorer had 43. Outside of Kane, Panarin and Toews, their highest scoring forward was Artem Anisimov, with 42 points.

St Louis had two guys with 50 or more points. Their third highest scorer was Paul Stastny with 49. Even if you look at a juggernaut like Dallas, they only had 5 guys over 50 points, and nobody with between 40 and 54 points.

The Flyers had 4 guys over 50 and a third who had 46 in just 64 games. That doesn't include Couturier, who had 39 in 63 games, which is a 51 point pace over 82 games.
- Jsaquella

No worries, I don't feel like you are singling me out, you are just reinforcing my point.

In my head right now all I see are flashes of Gudas and Schultz getting scored 2 on 1.

Our pk was the rare breed that managed to play passive and sit back and still huge open seams across the slot area. It was something.
- Mononoke

They finally switched it up in, what was it, Game three of the first round? And it was a night and day difference.

I hope they keep that aggressive approach going in to this season.

And I think he is showing it. The bottom 6 needed to be upgraded. So he gets guys like Weise and Gordon. They might not be the top names people think about but he saw that the PK and bottom 6 wasn't good enough so he brought in depth. If Vandevelde isn't good in camp I don't think Hextall will miss a beat in sending him to AHL. I actually think Read is close to maybe joining MacDonald there if he doesn't get off to a fast start.
- J35Bacher

I think Read had a really solid season outside of producing points. His salary is an area of concern, but he's a guy I see sticking unless they can trade him.

I think Read had a really solid season outside of producing points. His salary is an area of concern, but he's a guy I see sticking unless they can trade him.
- Jsaquella

If he scores 15-18 goals and puts up 20 assists, combined with his other contributions, he is worth the money. He needs to get his offense going again.

If he scores 15-18 goals and puts up 20 assists, combined with his other contributions, he is worth the money. He needs to get his offense going again.
- jak521

He did manage 11 goals, 15 assists, so he's not that far off from those numbers as things go. But given the concerns about the B6 getting buried in their own end, a healthy and good skating Read definitely helps.

Hard to feel too sorry for Lappy complaining about personnel when he let guys who grade out as very good PK'ers, like Laughton and Raffl, rot on the bench so VDV, PEB, and especially White could get regular minutes. But yeah, the personnel will be better. But if they want to do the cluster-(frank)-the-goalie-blocking-shots strategy again, good luck.
- Mononoke

Out of curiosity, does Lappy select the players used for the PK? If so, Raffl should have been out there over White at bare minimum. And I'd hope they learned their lesson last year vs. Washington that a high-pressure PK is the only way to defend a talented, upper-echelon PP like Washington's.

He did manage 11 goals, 15 assists, so he's not that far off from those numbers as things go. But given the concerns about the B6 getting buried in their own end, a healthy and good skating Read definitely helps.
- Jsaquella

Not even talking about the points, he just looks slower and doesn't seem to have the same impact as before. He used to get a few chances short handed but now he doesn't even really do much on the PK.

I just want to see him be more involved.

Not even talking about the points, he just looks slower and doesn't seem to have the same impact as before. He used to get a few chances short handed but now he doesn't even really do much on the PK.

I just want to see him be more involved.
- J35Bacher

I could be wrong, but for a good chunk of the season he was pretty banged up.

I didnt think he was that bad points aside.


If I had to put out a lineup today with what we have, I think I would go with:

Raffl/Laughton-Giroux-Jake/Simmer
Schenn-Couts-Simmer/Jake
Raffl/Laughton-Cousins-Read/Weise
PEB-Gordon-Read/Weise

VDV/Weal

MDZ-Gudas
Streit-Provorov
Schultz-Ghost

Manning (force A-Mac to move to Azerbaijan)

Mason
Neuvy

He just committed 4 years and 20.5M to Brayden Schenn.
- MJL

Schenn just had his best season of his career spending a lot of time with Giroux (not his time) but the moment that's split up, if Schenn's point production drops, he won't both worthy of the contract.

I could be wrong, but for a good chunk of the season he was pretty banged up.

I didnt think he was that bad points aside.


If I had to put out a lineup today with what we have, I think I would go with:

Raffl/Laughton-Giroux-Jake/Simmer
Schenn-Couts-Simmer/Jake
Raffl/Laughton-Cousins-Read/Weise
PEB-Gordon-Read/Weise

VDV/Weal

MDZ-Gudas
Streit-Provorov
Schultz-Ghost

Manning (force A-Mac to move to Azerbaijan)

Mason
Neuvy
- jak521

He has a LBI 2 years ago, so people have him a pass. Last year he was supposedly healthy but nothing much changed. I still think he is a good PKer, but I'm not sure we'll ever see the 20-goal, SHG threat Read again.

Edit: If we sign Manning, it better be a 2-year deal and he better play, or else we'll have to expose Gudas.

Schenn just had his best season of his career spending a lot of time with Giroux (not his time) but the moment that's split up, if Schenn's point production drops, he won't both worthy of the contract.
- roenick97

If he gets 20 goals and 30 assists, that is a 5 million player in todays NHL.

If he gets 20 goals and 30 assists, that is a 5 million player in todays NHL.
- MBFlyerfan

Ssssshhhhhhhhhhh.

I can't wait for hockey to smart. The smell of fall can't come soon enough
- funmaster18

+1

I think Read had a really solid season outside of producing points. His salary is an area of concern, but he's a guy I see sticking unless they can trade him.
- Jsaquella

Having a guy with Read's skill set on the 4th line, would not be the worst thing in the world, I'd be fine, once Schenn's 3 gamer is up, with a lineup of:

Schenn-G-Simmonds
Raffl or Laughton-Coots-Jake
Laughton or Raffl-Cousins-Wiese
Lyub or Read-Gordon-Read or Bellemare

Schenn just had his best season of his career spending a lot of time with Giroux (not his time) but the moment that's split up, if Schenn's point production drops, he won't both worthy of the contract.
- roenick97

Schenn's contract is no different than any other player. If he produces it will be a good deal. If he doesn't, it won't be.