I understand that, but how did that alleviate his defensive burden? Giroux would still be sent out. I believe in having a 4th line that is better than your opponent's 4th line, and so on and so forth up the lineup. I'm ok with Gordon if he wins it out of camp, but I simply don't get why that's the only spot in the entire bottom 6 that is locked up (Weise too, I guess).
- Mononoke

I'd have to guess people's insistence on penning both of these guys as locks in the line-up is:
- Weise: You're not handing someone a 4 year deal (@ 2.35MAAV) with expectations that the guy will be fighting for his spot, at least not in year 1. That doesn't mean the job should be handed to him. But Hextall is not committing that much salary and term to a guy if Hexy isn't 99% that he's making the team.
- Gordon: I think the fact that Hexy signed the player AND explained a specific role that he provides on the team gives the impression that he's a lock as well. If it was a general "he's got a good motor and can pot a few goals", then it could be a competition-type signing. But Hexy's quotes gives the impression that the Flyers' evaluated last year and felt that Giroux needs to take some defensive responsibilities off of his plate.

This is all based on Hexy's word and Hakstol will definitely has his say in things come camp.

I didn't miss your point, I think your point is the wrong way of looking at it, as I've explained how contract negotiations sometimes work. My point of comparing money and term of other players was not to suggest that you said that, but to show how looking at certain things that happen, can give a false impression. I think you're badly misreading the situation, and the fact that the negotiation went to the 11th hour, does not indicate in any way how Hextall feels about the player.
- MJL

no, u really are missing my point. the way that i look at it and the way u look at it, being two different view points, really come down to one thing, we'll never know. unless u can crawl into Ron's head, u will never know if he feels how i think he does, or if he feels the way u think he does. regardless, my opinion remains the same, that he feels different towards schenn than the rest of the core. you telling me that this is how negotiations happen and it has no bearing about how hextall feels about him because he signed him anyway, does nothing to change my opinion. i disagree with you, u disagree with me, thats really the end.

schenn signed for schwartz money oh yea we only have 1.3 mil of cap space now
- 2Real

I've missed you

Not opposed to giving Laughton a shot. I have my doubts that his game can keep up with G & Jake but I'd love for him to prove me wrong.
- Baxter27

i think laughton is ready for the test. G has proven to lift pretty much anyone's game who plays with him. voracek had career numbers with G, and i think it may behoove the team to let them play together again on the same line. i think with the schenner coots simmer line, u have sanpaper, grit, net front presence, solid possession guys, and coots obviously plays one of the finest two way games in the game today. simmer has very much improved his play without the puck, and schenn is no liability. plus, the chemistry shown when coots and schenn play together i think is undeniable, from the 10 game stint they had at the end of the 14-15 season, to little spurts thru this past season, think they need to be teemed up together.

I'm all for that, but I don't understand why Gordon is the end all, be all for that. Simply having 4th and 3rd lines that aren't explicitly sheltered -- as they were this year, to sub par results -- should adjust his zone starts. And we have more than enough PK'ers to take G off that and use someone else like Laughton or Raffl. But just having a guy to take some d zone starts because he's good at faceoffs doesn't mean your team is better or Giroux has less heavy lifting. That player has to be able to take tough zone starts AND be good afterwards AND be able to matchup against top 6 competition. Gordon does the first one. Rubtsov will probably be the real game changer if we want to see Giroux get real sheltering.

But even in the much mythologized Year of the Adam Hall, which people want replicated, Giroux took like 2 more offensive zone faceoffs every 5 games. That didn't exactly seem to release him from his burden.
- Mononoke

I believe you're undervaluing the Gordon signing. I agree with Bill Meltzer when he stated when Gordon was signed, looking at it through an analytics angle is barking up the wrong tree. I don't think there is any question that taking some of the heavy lifting is going to help Giroux be a better player, which will in turn hopefully make the Flyers a better player. Not to mention the long term ramifications. Giroux is not a big guy, and he wore down last season. If the Flyers continue to run Giroux into the ground, his days as a #1 center will be cut short substantially. For that reason alone, the Gordon signing was important. They're both RH shots, which is no accident. Gordon is solid on faceoffs, solid defensively, and good on the PK. Perfect fit for the need the Flyers had. We'll have to see how he is used. If he doesn't take a lot of D zone draws off of Giroux, then they're not using him correctly.

no, u really are missing my point. the way that i look at it and the way u look at it, being two different view points, really come down to one thing, we'll never know. unless u can crawl into Ron's head, u will never know if he feels how i think he does, or if he feels the way u think he does. regardless, my opinion remains the same, that he feels different towards schenn than the rest of the core. you telling me that this is how negotiations happen and it has no bearing about how hextall feels about him because he signed him anyway, does nothing to change my opinion. i disagree with you, u disagree with me, thats really the end.
- sjk540

You keep stating that, but that is completely false. I understand completely what your point is. I think you're wrong. I'm not crawling into Hextall's head. I'm taking him at his word, and his repeated statements that he wanted to sign Schenn to a long term deal, and he did. You can disagree with me all you want, but I don't think you have any legitimate basis for stating that the length of the negotiation, and that it went to the brink of arbitration, says something about how Hextall feels about Schenn.

While Hextall labeled Schenn a top-six forward, he tap-danced around whether he sees him as a “core” player for the Flyers, even though this makes him the third highest-paid forward behind Claude Giroux ($8.275 million) and Jakub Voracek ($8.25 million).

“What is a core [player]?” Hextall asked. “That’s arguable. ... What we do know is Brayden is a very good young player who is getting better and we hope he continues to get better.”

Lol

You keep stating that, but that is completely false. I understand completely what your point is. I think you're wrong. I'm not crawling into Hextall's head. I'm taking him at his word, and his repeated statements that he wanted to sign Schenn to a long term deal, and he did. You can disagree with me all you want, but I don't think you have any legitimate basis for stating that the length of the negotiation, and that it went to the brink of arbitration, says something about how Hextall feels about Schenn.
- MJL

so every single executive in the history of sports is being truthful when they say something? really???? ok, well, i think you're wrong, and you think im wrong. these are opinions, and not backed up by anything other than our feelings based on the facts we have seen throughout this situation. i will disagree with u as u disagree with me, but you cant tell me that theres a 100% chance that it took this long for a contract to get done, and in no way shape or form because of the way hexy feels about schenn. u dont know that just like i dont for sure if 100% it took this long because of how he felt. its my opinion, and thats what i think.

arguing over opinions that cant be backup by any facts other than, well repeated statements this, prior negotiations that, etc etc, have no bearing. no two situations are the same. it could have taken this long cause of hextall feeling a different way towards schenn then the rest of the core, and it easily could have been not that. either way continuing to argue is pointless. then again, ironically, we have to hear about democrats and republicans every day for the last 6 months, and will have to every day until november 8th-ish. i feel bad for us.

Schenn is getting AMac money? The world just doesn't make sense any more...

Lol
- Mononoke

this would play into what i think about hextalls' feelings towards schenn in conjunction with a contract taking so long to get agreed upon. he talks differently about him sometimes, the way he talks about others in the core is different. to me, hexy isnt sold on him but he's smart enough to know he needed to get an extension done. i think thats why they didnt mind trading him to us back in 2011 and i think thats why now he basically took him to the wire before arbitration. but im not looking to get back into it with MJL since its gotten us no where.

so every single executive in the history of sports is being truthful when they say something? really???? ok, well, i think you're wrong, and you think im wrong. these are opinions, and not backed up by anything other than our feelings based on the facts we have seen throughout this situation. i will disagree with u as u disagree with me, but you cant tell me that theres a 100% chance that it took this long for a contract to get done, and in no way shape or form because of the way hexy feels about schenn. u dont know that just like i dont for sure if 100% it took this long because of how he felt. its my opinion, and thats what i think.

arguing over opinions that cant be backup by any facts other than, well repeated statements this, prior negotiations that, etc etc, have no bearing. no two situations are the same. it could have taken this long cause of hextall feeling a different way towards schenn then the rest of the core, and it easily could have been not that. either way continuing to argue is pointless. then again, ironically, we have to hear about democrats and republicans every day for the last 6 months, and will have to every day until november 8th-ish. i feel bad for us.
- sjk540

I think the fact that Hextall signed Schenn to a 4 year deal, supports that his statement of wanting to sign Schenn to a multi year deal, was not hyperbole or an untrue statement on his part. So one fact is that Hextall agreed to a long term deal with Schenn. I think it's clear that the Schenn camp used the leverage of arbitration to try and get the best deal he could. I think it's been well documented what normally happens in cases like this, and why it often comes down to an 11th hour settlement. It has nothing to do with how Hextall feels about Schenn. Signing him to a 4 year deal worth over 5M a year, is a pretty strong statement of how he feels about Schenn as a player.

this would play into what i think about hextalls' feelings towards schenn in conjunction with a contract taking so long to get agreed upon. he talks differently about him sometimes, the way he talks about others in the core is different. to me, hexy isnt sold on him but he's smart enough to know he needed to get an extension done. i think thats why they didnt mind trading him to us back in 2011 and i think thats why now he basically took him to the wire before arbitration. but im not looking to get back into it with MJL since its gotten us no where.
- sjk540

Hextall is not going to come out and state, hey, you got your deal, and you got it made now. He wants to continue to challenge players, and give them incentive to get better. He says the same thing about the young players chances of making the team, and about the competition for roster spots in camp. So Hextall hasn't really liked Schenn since his days as assistant GM in LA, which explains why he just signed Schenn to a 4 year deal. Hextall didn't take Schenn to the wire, he has no reason to do that. It was an ongoing negotiation between two parties. It went to the wire because both parties did not reach an agreement until that point.

oh cool

Skimming through.

Voracek needs to go back on RW with Giroux.

He had his most dominant season there, which in a big part lead to his extension.

They decide to at first play him with the scrubs, and then move him to LW.

Enough of the dumb. Giroux with Voracek on his right side and leave it alone.

For poops and giggles, mainly my own entertainment.

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds
Laughton-Cousins-Konecny
Bellemare-Gordon-who cares

For poops and giggles, mainly my own entertainment.

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds
Laughton-Cousins-Konecny
Bellemare-Gordon-who cares
- flyer_nutter

I like dis

For poops and giggles, mainly my own entertainment.

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds
Laughton-Cousins-Konecny
Bellemare-Gordon-who cares
- flyer_nutter

Weise? Read?

I think the fact that Hextall signed Schenn to a 4 year deal, supports that his statement of wanting to sign Schenn to a multi year deal, was not hyperbole or an untrue statement on his part. So one fact is that Hextall agreed to a long term deal with Schenn. I think it's clear that the Schenn camp used the leverage of arbitration to try and get the best deal he could. I think it's been well documented what normally happens in cases like this, and why it often comes down to an 11th hour settlement. It has nothing to do with how Hextall feels about Schenn. Signing him to a 4 year deal worth over 5M a year, is a pretty strong statement of how he feels about Schenn as a player.
- MJL

so again, you CANNOT fully say this as fact, because you dont know it 100% to be true or not. this is your opinion. i can say that Hextall is madly in love with schenn and of course they came to an agreement, but do i know that 100% no, and neither do u, just because he said he wanted to sign schenn and did, cannot possibly make u think that im right and ur wrong or even vice versa.

hextall could also be a smart GM, and was put in a position where he knew he didnt want to lose this player, but also didnt want to pay him what he was asking, and negotiations took this long to a point where yes, the schenn camp used it as leverage, and in the end hextall probably paid about a million more than he wanted, but again, as a smart GM, he knew he had to get him signed.

i mean, do you not understand what ur saying is opinion and conjecture, and in no way can be proven by any facts. u repeating that he wanted to get him signed, and then he did, making it a fact to back up ur argument, is not a fact. again, its your opinion thats perceived based on what u see and hear. i make my opinion the same way, and we just flat out disagree. not once in this whole conversation have i said ur wrong, i said what my opinion was and disagree, u continue to spout im wrong about my opinion, which is impossible, unless my opinion is about something that is factually proven that i think is false. my point and opinion do not follow that criteria.

For poops and giggles, mainly my own entertainment.

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds
Laughton-Cousins-Konecny
Bellemare-Gordon-who cares
- flyer_nutter

Where does Weiss fit in?

Weise?
- Just5

I put him in Konecny's spot.

Don't think Travis makes the team this year. Though I would love to see it. I think he would really kick-start Laughton's offense.

Read, meh.

Hextall is not going to come out and state, hey, you got your deal, and you got it made now. He wants to continue to challenge players, and give them incentive to get better. He says the same thing about the young players chances of making the team, and about the competition for roster spots in camp. So Hextall hasn't really liked Schenn since his days as assistant GM in LA, which explains why he just signed Schenn to a 4 year deal. Hextall didn't take Schenn to the wire, he has no reason to do that. It was an ongoing negotiation between two parties. It went to the wire because both parties did not reach an agreement until that point.
- MJL

it went to the wire because hextall didnt believe he was worth what schenn thought he was worth, that is the agreement that they couldnt reach. again, YOU HAVE NO CLUE HOW HEXTALL FEELS ABOUT SCHENN SINCE YOURE NOT HEXTALL. i mean seriously guy give it a break, keep arguing, but u have no clue and probably never will. no one does. i could be 100% right and u keep arguing because hextall said blah blah blah and then did this blah blah blah. proves nothing, and still makes your point opinion, and therefore not fact

Weise? Read?
- Just5

My dream is to have Konecny make it and dont want him playing fourth line minutes.

Weise should obviously be a lock.

(frank) Read.

My dream is to have Konecny make it and dont want him playing fourth line minutes.

Weise should obviously be a lock.

(frank) Read.
- flyer_nutter

I put him in Konecny's spot.

Don't think Travis makes the team this year. Though I would love to see it. I think he would really kick-start Laughton's offense.

Read, meh.
- Mordecai

I think Laughton, as with many young guys out of junior, still need to grasp the concept of constantly working shift in and shift out as well as game in and game out

I think Laughton, as with many young guys out of junior, still need to grasp the concept of constantly working shift in and shift out as well as game in and game out
- Just5

Lets get crazy. I dont see Laughton as much in the future. Who the (frank) is he as a player?