Ladies and gents...

Let's put the thread back on topic, or at the very least some sort of sports-related conversation.

Thanks.
- EKB13

EK, hope the summer is treating you well.

When do the Hogs report for training camp? Have there been any transactions for new Hogs that we will see in the fall?

I said nothing about smoking and I didn't give my position on climate change - I simply said it shouldn't be a subject for this website because it gets people's panties in a bunch on both sides of the topic. As for the science of climate change - I'm very knowledgeable on the true results of the scientific method, a method used by scientists for eons and one I'm happy to state I endorse whole heartedly. As for smoking, good science proved the disastrous results smoking has on people and I'm happy light was shined on the tobacco industry for hiding the science they knew for decades.

I'm sure you'll feel the need to have the last word on this wiz and I won't respond, but I also won't let stink float past my nose without pointing out where it's coming from.
- EbonyRaptor

Ladies and gents...

Let's put the thread back on topic, or at the very least some sort of sports-related conversation.

Thanks.
- EKB13

Did we get Malkin yet?

Did we get Malkin yet?
- z1990z

We did, however it wasn't noticed, lost in the bickering. Got Ovi too, so we're all set.

Do you guys think the Sox will unload some guys before Monday?

This the conversation I wanted to load into yesterday and since most of us have had team meetings in PM and straightened things out, now…

SI.COM/TSN: US Senator Richard Blumenthal, a “ranking member of the Senate Subcommittee on Consumer Protection, which overseas professional and amateur sports,” was appalled by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman’s denial of any proven link between head trauma and the brain damage condition CTE. As a result, “lawyers for former National Hockey League players who are suing the league over its handling of head injuries want to force commissioner Gary Bettman to provide more testimony.”

Ok - no comments but on this subject and again apologies if you view fall different than mine on that last debacle.

I totally understand that the players and their parents from when they STARTED football, or hockey knew that sports have injuries at every level. (My daughters have already said that not yet five boys are NOT ever playing organized football, and one of them is already totally buff long up the hill hiker with not fat and strong arms and legs to put the swim move on my fat tush…)

I also understand that if you choose to go into this career, just like police / fire you know it comes with risks

In Hockey, you get a hunk a money to play a game you love!

It seems a terrific trade off as a future IF you succeed.

And remember I have been sitting in that old Chicago Stadium since there were only 17 skaters X 6 which means many many of the old Western pro League & American call ups were not necessarily guys who were as good as those top 100 (except for the Montreal Canadiens farn teams that probably could have sweater up THREE pro teams) so many many of these call-ups were seasoned grizzly veterans who arrived and hacked and slashed and attacked to make up for their inability to be impact NHL scorers…
I can remember that Sunday night in 1970 or 71 when the Hawks defense not only had injuries but the team as pushed around the ice the game before, like it was going to be a pattern.

They called down to Portland in the Western league and brought both Gerry Korab AND Rick Foley up. I always showed up for the entire pre-skate and just could believe how big Foley (and Korab) were. Foley was already at least 25 where Korab skated well enough to be a long term prospect as a bottom end guy.

When they finally were allowed to hit the ice, there was a clear buzz of excitement. It didn’t take long before ONE of them (remember I can’t remember all this stuff!) started the first fight. And the another. Foley really didn’t move well enough to be an NHL defenseman, he was a huge slug. (REALLY slow!) He wasn't good enough on his pins to make the club next training camp and was sent to the best fit Flyers, where he continued to fight players sometimes two at once (Glen Sather and ?)...

Well when he finally dropped them, it was take no prisoner situation where he first introduced himself with stick hits to more than one opposing players unhelmeted noggins.
I was never impartial (Regge Fleming my fav during the one Cup years) but I sudden;y got a conscience when I saw this guy very purposefully almost complete forgetting it was an organized pro game where other stuff was suppose to come first.

Nowadays the foot speed helps use your body stick and arms to position to hurt with the same intentions as foley had in my humble opinion.

I have heard some say burden of the risk falls to the players, not the organizations / leagues, but you have to think that everything from equipment upgrades to standards on conduct must be examined and the culture of the in game competition has to become a bit more honorable as that playoff series handshake.

The obligation of the leagues is to make sure they are doing what they can to protect players.

Gary Bettman has to do something beside sidestep.
As soon as I saw the just returned Jonathan Toews get outwardly punched to the face by Joe Thornton w/o any call review later on, I knew that things seemed less safe than even in the non helmet days where most TRIED to keep sticks down, to avoid over the top bullying.

If Chicago signs Vesey, do we owe Buffalo or Nashville anything in return?
- 93Joe

No.

Just like the Rangers owed the Hawks nothing for Kevin hayes when he used the loophole.

and I agree ...don't get too excited...I think Jimmy Vesey is signing with Boston.

I am not a gambler but I might make a bet that he will NOT sign with Toronto, because there probably would be formal tampering charges after they hired his dad in advance.

It will be an early Christmas if he does choose Q & Tazer...

In regards to this...is it more important to a defender to be fast? Or be quick? Meaning, or does it not matter either way as long as they are in the right place at the right time?
- CanOCorn

I would think quick and agile is better than fast. Positioning and ability to read plays are paramount above all, especially for aging vets who may used to be fast or quick but are losing a step or two as they get older. That's why I think Campbell has a few years left and can contribute as a puck mover without being a liability because he's agile, is a good skater, and knows how to transition the puck from D to O.

If Chicago signs Vesey, do we owe Buffalo or Nashville anything in return?
- 93Joe

A thank you for not signing him.

No.

Just like the Rangers owed the Hawks nothing for Kevin hayes when he used the loophole.

and I agree ...don't get too excited...I think Jimmy Vesey is signing with Boston.

I am not a gambler but I might make a bet that he will NOT sign with Toronto, because there probably would be formal tampering charges after they hired his dad in advance.

It will be an early Christmas if he does choose Q & Tazer...
- wiz1901

Thanks for the clarification. I'm guessing either Boston (hometown) Buffalo (with his friend Eichel) or Chicago (best chance of winning/play with superstars). Hoping for another LW here.

I think Q going to watch Vesey makes sense because when it's time to present their offer to Vesey - especially if it includes playing on Toews' line - they will be able to say Qs on board (assuming he is) and it will carry some weight because Q has actually watched him play. Given what JJ and others have alluded to about rifts between Q and Stan I think it's a v good thing that they are (apparently) coordinating on this one.
- Marlowe

It's all speculation. My "educated" guess? Bowman's angle of "you'll play with Toews and Hossa" becomes a lot more credible if Vesey sees that Q is "buying in."

So Q getting on a plane and going out there for a couple of days makes a lot of sense. It's salesmanship_and if the Hawks are serious about signing Vesey today, while someone else still holds his rights, it's pretty much ALL about optics at the point.

"See Jimmy, we're very seriously interested in you and in giving you a legit role on our team.

It's all speculation. My "educated" guess? Bowman's angle of "you'll play with Toews and Hossa" becomes a lot more credible if Vesey sees that Q is "buying in."

So Q getting on a plane and going out there for a couple of days makes a lot of sense. It's salesmanship_and if the Hawks are serious about signing Vesey today, while someone else still holds his rights, it's pretty much ALL about optics at the point.

"See Jimmy, we're very seriously interested in you and in giving you a legit role on our team.
- John Jaeckel

And when does all of this become tampering?

It's all speculation. My "educated" guess? Bowman's angle of "you'll play with Toews and Hossa" becomes a lot more credible if Vesey sees that Q is "buying in."

So Q getting on a plane and going out there for a couple of days makes a lot of sense. It's salesmanship_and if the Hawks are serious about signing Vesey today, while someone else still holds his rights, it's pretty much ALL about optics at the point.

"See Jimmy, we're very seriously interested in you and in giving you a legit role on our team.
- John Jaeckel

No question, it's showing a high, high level of interest from GM/Coach, especially during a time when you can't have direct contact with the kid.

To me the whole "chance of winning" only goes so far. I think the Panarin pitch is more applicable here: Play with high-end, top-6 talent and have a chance to really cash-in on your bonuses and your next contract post-ELC. Chances are he can bounce back to Boston/Buffalo at that point, but set's him up for a better payday. Cups and points are what matters for the 2nd contract.

And when does all of this become tampering?
- StLBravesFan

So now scouting is tampering?

So now scouting is tampering?
- powerenforcer

Ya you would hope that with a Harvard education Vesey can see Q and Stan in the stands and read between the lines.

It's all speculation. My "educated" guess? Bowman's angle of "you'll play with Toews and Hossa" becomes a lot more credible if Vesey sees that Q is "buying in."

So Q getting on a plane and going out there for a couple of days makes a lot of sense. It's salesmanship_and if the Hawks are serious about signing Vesey today, while someone else still holds his rights, it's pretty much ALL about optics at the point.

"See Jimmy, we're very seriously interested in you and in giving you a legit role on our team.
- John Jaeckel

>Q may also be part of the Hawks presentation to Vesey
>Said this awhile ago, Hawks cannot compete with the Bruins for "Vesey's heart"
>But, they do offer the best growth option for Vesey as a player and a person
>If I'm the Hawks, I hammer home the idea that you can always go back to Boston after your ELC with maybe a Cup or two and as an emerging elite player
>And being in Chicago will allow you the the space to learn how to be a pro
>And you will appreciate Boston a LOT more being away from it for awhile

No.

Just like the Rangers owed the Hawks nothing for Kevin hayes when he used the loophole.

and I agree ...don't get too excited...I think Jimmy Vesey is signing with Boston.

I am not a gambler but I might make a bet that he will NOT sign with Toronto, because there probably would be formal tampering charges after they hired his dad in advance.

It will be an early Christmas if he does choose Q & Tazer...
- wiz1901

Hawks got a 2nd rounder from the Rangers for signing Hayes. But that's because Hayes was a 1st round pick. If I'm reading the Wikipedia article correctly, only 1st rounders receive compensatory picks.

And when does all of this become tampering?
- StLBravesFan

You can always look, just no touching

You can always look, just no touching
- dstainer

I hate those clubs...

It's all speculation. My "educated" guess? Bowman's angle of "you'll play with Toews and Hossa" becomes a lot more credible if Vesey sees that Q is "buying in."

So Q getting on a plane and going out there for a couple of days makes a lot of sense. It's salesmanship_and if the Hawks are serious about signing Vesey today, while someone else still holds his rights, it's pretty much ALL about optics at the point.

"See Jimmy, we're very seriously interested in you and in giving you a legit role on our team.
- John Jaeckel

Q was in Boston visiting Suffolk Downs to make a private purchase of a filly to bring back to run at Arlington. The Vesey visit just happened because he was in the area already and had nothing else to do.

Hawks got a 2nd rounder from the Rangers for signing Hayes. But that's because Hayes was a 1st round pick. If I'm reading the Wikipedia article correctly, only 1st rounders receive compensatory picks.
- dstainer

Nope.

The league gave / added a second round compensatory pick exactly 30 slots after the Blackhawks selected Kevin Hayes after he signed elsewhere.

For the Rangers to have "given" the blackhawks a pick, they would have had to surrender THEIR own NY Rangers 2nd rounder, and that was not the case.

Nashville will not receive a compensatory, because a team ONLY gets the "30 pick later" compensation when a player sneaks away by this loophole.

Buffalo was nice enough to give Nashville a third to simply get to talk to Jimmy Vesey BEFORE August 15th. (They had a LOT of them and figured, what the heck, this kid Vesey is much further along in his development than any kid we could select, and we got lots of 3rd rounders to try, but this accelerates OUR talent faster than another 18 year old kid....

Q was in Boston visiting Suffolk Downs to make a private purchase of a filly to bring back to run at Arlington. The Vesey visit just happened because he was in the area already and had nothing else to do.
- scottak

So...earlier I posted it was so curious that he was using his vacation time for hockey, but now we see it was more horse-related with the hockey as incidental...

This the conversation I wanted to load into yesterday and since most of us have had team meetings in PM and straightened things out, now…

SI.COM/TSN: US Senator Richard Blumenthal, a “ranking member of the Senate Subcommittee on Consumer Protection, which overseas professional and amateur sports,” was appalled by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman’s denial of any proven link between head trauma and the brain damage condition CTE. As a result, “lawyers for former National Hockey League players who are suing the league over its handling of head injuries want to force commissioner Gary Bettman to provide more testimony.”

Ok - no comments but on this subject and again apologies if you view fall different than mine on that last debacle.

I totally understand that the players and their parents from when they STARTED football, or hockey knew that sports have injuries at every level. (My daughters have already said that not yet five boys are NOT ever playing organized football, and one of them is already totally buff long up the hill hiker with not fat and strong arms and legs to put the swim move on my fat tush…)

I also understand that if you choose to go into this career, just like police / fire you know it comes with risks

In Hockey, you get a hunk a money to play a game you love!

It seems a terrific trade off as a future IF you succeed.

And remember I have been sitting in that old Chicago Stadium since there were only 17 skaters X 6 which means many many of the old Western pro League & American call ups were not necessarily guys who were as good as those top 100 (except for the Montreal Canadiens farn teams that probably could have sweater up THREE pro teams) so many many of these call-ups were seasoned grizzly veterans who arrived and hacked and slashed and attacked to make up for their inability to be impact NHL scorers…
I can remember that Sunday night in 1970 or 71 when the Hawks defense not only had injuries but the team as pushed around the ice the game before, like it was going to be a pattern.

They called down to Portland in the Western league and brought both Gerry Korab AND Rick Foley up. I always showed up for the entire pre-skate and just could believe how big Foley (and Korab) were. Foley was already at least 25 where Korab skated well enough to be a long term prospect as a bottom end guy.

When they finally were allowed to hit the ice, there was a clear buzz of excitement. It didn’t take long before ONE of them (remember I can’t remember all this stuff!) started the first fight. And the another. Foley really didn’t move well enough to be an NHL defenseman, he was a huge slug. (REALLY slow!) He wasn't good enough on his pins to make the club next training camp and was sent to the best fit Flyers, where he continued to fight players sometimes two at once (Glen Sather and ?)...

Well when he finally dropped them, it was take no prisoner situation where he first introduced himself with stick hits to more than one opposing players unhelmeted noggins.
I was never impartial (Regge Fleming my fav during the one Cup years) but I sudden;y got a conscience when I saw this guy very purposefully almost complete forgetting it was an organized pro game where other stuff was suppose to come first.

Nowadays the foot speed helps use your body stick and arms to position to hurt with the same intentions as foley had in my humble opinion.

I have heard some say burden of the risk falls to the players, not the organizations / leagues, but you have to think that everything from equipment upgrades to standards on conduct must be examined and the culture of the in game competition has to become a bit more honorable as that playoff series handshake.

The obligation of the leagues is to make sure they are doing what they can to protect players.

Gary Bettman has to do something beside sidestep.
As soon as I saw the just returned Jonathan Toews get outwardly punched to the face by Joe Thornton w/o any call review later on, I knew that things seemed less safe than even in the non helmet days where most TRIED to keep sticks down, to avoid over the top bullying.
- wiz1901

Hey Wiz, I have to admit that it's rare when I read one of your posts that is this long, but this one I like a lot, and not just because I remember those guys Korab & Foley. I pretty much agree with you.

It's all speculation. My "educated" guess? Bowman's angle of "you'll play with Toews and Hossa" becomes a lot more credible if Vesey sees that Q is "buying in."

So Q getting on a plane and going out there for a couple of days makes a lot of sense. It's salesmanship_and if the Hawks are serious about signing Vesey today, while someone else still holds his rights, it's pretty much ALL about optics at the point.

"See Jimmy, we're very seriously interested in you and in giving you a legit role on our team.
- John Jaeckel

Hey JJ, just wondering what your thoughts are on Motte to possibly play on L1 with Toews/Hoss? He's numbers were pretty damn good at Univ. of Michigan last year (38 games/56 points), he's a LW, AND in 5 games with the Hogs he got 2 goals and 3 assists for a point-per-game average. If they can't land Vesey, who seems to be the end-all-be-all for some reason, and are serious about giving one of the kids a shot...why can't Motte who they already have signed for the next 3 years be a viable alternative?

Do you guys think the Sox will unload some guys before Monday?
- Hank3Henshaw

I like to look at the Sox, on a 1-100 scale, as being at exactly 50. They could trade what little prospects they have to get Lucroy and AGon....and be at about 75 or 80. Or, they can deal Sale, Quintana, Abreu, Lawrie, Frazier, Eaton, Melky and Robertson...and get about 14 prospects. It will take them all the way down to zero...like the Cubs were about 3-4 years ago....and then these youngsters become good and the Sox go up to 90-95 in 3-4 years. My fear is they deal one or two of those guys mentioned above...and drop down to 30...but in the process not get many prospects back to ever get to 90-95. Knowing the Sox...that is what they will do. They will trade Robertson and Quintana and just be crappy forever.