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Forums :: Blog World :: James Tanner: Luke Schenn: Top Pairing Defenseman (It's Not as Crazy as It Sounds)
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LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Jul 25 @ 12:39 PM ET
(10) Anaheim Ducks-Bob Murray-November 12 2008
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(18) Buffalo Sabres-Tim Murray-January 9 2014
(16) Calgary Flames-Brad Treliving-April 28 2014
(26) Carolina Hurricanes-Ron Francis-April 28 2014
(1) Chicago Blackhawks-Stan Bowman-July 14 2009
(30) Colorado Avalanche-Joe Sakic-September 19 2014
(31) Columbus BJ's-Jarmo Kekalainen-February 13 2013
(3) Dallas Stars-Jim Nill-April 29 2013
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(25) Montreal Canadiens-Marc Bergevin-May 2 2012
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(24) New Jersey Devils-Ray Shero-May 4 2015
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(7) Tampa Bay Lightning -Steve Yzerman-May 25 2010
(15) Toronto Maple Leafs-Lou Lamoriello-July 23 2015
(22) Vancouver Canucks-Jim Benning-May 21 2014
(13) Washington Capitals-Brian MacLellan-May 26 2014
(21) Winnipeg Jets-Kevin Cheveldayoff-June 8 2011
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Jul 25 @ 1:19 PM ET
(1) Chicago Blackhawks-Stan Bowman-July 14 2009
(2) Nashville Predators-David Poile-December 11 1997
(3) Dallas Stars-Jim Nill-April 29 2013
(4) Philadelphia Flyers-Ron Hextall-May 7 2014
(5) Los Angeles Kings-Dean Lombardi-April 21 2006
(6) Pittsburgh Penguins-Jim Rutherford-June 6 2014
(7) Tampa Bay Lightning -Steve Yzerman-May 25 2010
(8) St. Louis Blues-Doug Armstrong -July 1 2010
(9) Las Vegas Knights-George McPhee-July 13 2016
(10) Anaheim Ducks-Bob Murray-November 12 2008
(11) San Jose Sharks-Doug Wilson-May 13 2003
(12) Florida Panthers-Tom Rowe-May 16 2016
(13) Washington Capitals-Brian MacLellan-May 26 2014
(14) New York Rangers-Jeff Gorton-July 1 2015
(15) Toronto Maple Leafs-Lou Lamoriello-July 23 2015
(16) Calgary Flames-Brad Treliving-April 28 2014
(17) Detroit Red Wings-Ken Holland-July 18 1997
(18) Buffalo Sabres-Tim Murray-January 9 2014
(19) Edmonton Oilers-Peter Chiarelli-April 15 2013
(20) Minnesota Wild-Chuck Fletcher-May 22 2009
(21) Winnipeg Jets-Kevin Cheveldayoff-June 8 2011
(22) Vancouver Canucks-Jim Benning-May 21 2014
(23) New York Islanders-Garth Snow-July 18 2006
(24) New Jersey Devils-Ray Shero-May 4 2015
(25) Montreal Canadiens-Marc Bergevin-May 2 2012
(26) Carolina Hurricanes-Ron Francis-April 28 2014
(27) Arizona Coyotes -John Chayka-June 2016
(28) Boston Bruins-Don Sweeney-May 20 2015
(29) Ottawa Senators-Pierre Dorion-April 10, 2016
(30) Colorado Avalanche-Joe Sakic-September 19 2014
(31) Columbus BJ's-Jarmo Kekalainen-February 13 2013
DDM-Coga
Colorado Avalanche
Location: If Chabot is not in the NHL, Ill revoke my account - AlfiesSald, AB
Joined: 07.24.2009

Jul 25 @ 1:29 PM ET
(1) Chicago Blackhawks-Stan Bowman-July 14 2009
(2) Nashville Predators-David Poile-December 11 1997
(3) Dallas Stars-Jim Nill-April 29 2013
(4) Philadelphia Flyers-Ron Hextall-May 7 2014
(5) Los Angeles Kings-Dean Lombardi-April 21 2006
(6) Pittsburgh Penguins-Jim Rutherford-June 6 2014
(7) Tampa Bay Lightning -Steve Yzerman-May 25 2010
(8) St. Louis Blues-Doug Armstrong -July 1 2010
(9) Las Vegas Knights-George McPhee-July 13 2016
(10) Anaheim Ducks-Bob Murray-November 12 2008
(11) San Jose Sharks-Doug Wilson-May 13 2003
(12) Florida Panthers-Tom Rowe-May 16 2016
(13) Washington Capitals-Brian MacLellan-May 26 2014
(14) New York Rangers-Jeff Gorton-July 1 2015
(15) Toronto Maple Leafs-Lou Lamoriello-July 23 2015
(16) Calgary Flames-Brad Treliving-April 28 2014
(17) Detroit Red Wings-Ken Holland-July 18 1997
(18) Buffalo Sabres-Tim Murray-January 9 2014
(19) Edmonton Oilers-Peter Chiarelli-April 15 2013
(20) Ottawa Senators-Pierre Dorion-April 10, 2016
(21) Winnipeg Jets-Kevin Cheveldayoff-June 8 2011
(22) Vancouver Canucks-Jim Benning-May 21 2014
(23) New York Islanders-Garth Snow-July 18 2006
(24) New Jersey Devils-Ray Shero-May 4 2015
(25) Montreal Canadiens-Marc Bergevin-May 2 2012
(26) Carolina Hurricanes-Ron Francis-April 28 2014
(27) Arizona Coyotes -John Chayka-June 2016
(28) Boston Bruins-Don Sweeney-May 20 2015
(29) Minnesota Wild-Chuck Fletcher-May 22 2009
(30) Colorado Avalanche-Joe Sakic-September 19 2014
(31) Columbus BJ's-Jarmo Kekalainen-February 13 2013

- LeftCoaster


This list stinks, to have Benning where he is....tsk tsk
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Jul 25 @ 1:34 PM ET
In real life, would you talk about your "training in critical thinking" when referring to university?
- BestRapperAlive


Sure, why not? It was the most important part of my education. It really helped me with deductive reasoning, for instance, I know that you don't have any training in that field by how clever you think you're being right now.
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Jul 25 @ 1:36 PM ET
This list stinks, to have Benning where he is....tsk tsk
- DDM-Coga

I like his drafting and I don't think he's been a GM long enough to properly judge him given the complete mess he came into. Not his biggest fan but I certainly don't think he's worse than the bottom five.


Edit: I switched Minny and Ottawa….not sure how that happened??
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Jul 25 @ 1:40 PM ET
(1) Chicago Blackhawks-Stan Bowman-July 14 2009
(2) Nashville Predators-David Poile-December 11 1997
(3) Dallas Stars-Jim Nill-April 29 2013
(4) Philadelphia Flyers-Ron Hextall-May 7 2014
(5) Los Angeles Kings-Dean Lombardi-April 21 2006
(6) Pittsburgh Penguins-Jim Rutherford-June 6 2014
(7) Tampa Bay Lightning -Steve Yzerman-May 25 2010
(8) St. Louis Blues-Doug Armstrong -July 1 2010
(9) Las Vegas Knights-George McPhee-July 13 2016
(10) Anaheim Ducks-Bob Murray-November 12 2008
(11) San Jose Sharks-Doug Wilson-May 13 2003
(12) Florida Panthers-Tom Rowe-May 16 2016
(13) Washington Capitals-Brian MacLellan-May 26 2014
(14) New York Rangers-Jeff Gorton-July 1 2015
(15) Toronto Maple Leafs-Lou Lamoriello-July 23 2015
(16) Calgary Flames-Brad Treliving-April 28 2014
(17) Detroit Red Wings-Ken Holland-July 18 1997
(18) Buffalo Sabres-Tim Murray-January 9 2014
(19) Edmonton Oilers-Peter Chiarelli-April 15 2013
(20) Ottawa Senators-Pierre Dorion-April 10, 2016
(21) Winnipeg Jets-Kevin Cheveldayoff-June 8 2011
(22) Vancouver Canucks-Jim Benning-May 21 2014
(23) New York Islanders-Garth Snow-July 18 2006
(24) New Jersey Devils-Ray Shero-May 4 2015
(25) Montreal Canadiens-Marc Bergevin-May 2 2012
(26) Carolina Hurricanes-Ron Francis-April 28 2014
(27) Arizona Coyotes -John Chayka-June 2016
(28) Boston Bruins-Don Sweeney-May 20 2015
(29) Minnesota Wild-Chuck Fletcher-May 22 2009
(30) Colorado Avalanche-Joe Sakic-September 19 2014
(31) Columbus BJ's-Jarmo Kekalainen-February 13 2013

- LeftCoaster


Interesting ranking. You really think Bowman is best in the NHL? That's preposterous.

Poile, Lamoriello, Holland, Rutherford, Lombardi, Armstrong, Francis, Snow, Shero, Chayka, Fletcher, Doug Wilson, Steve Yzerman, Nill.

No order, but I think those guys are best. It would take way too much research to make a real list that isn't 100% BS. I freely admit I don't have that much data stored in my head.

It is also ridiculous that you don't have Benning, Sakic and Bob Murray at the bottom.
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Jul 25 @ 1:53 PM ET
Interesting ranking. You really think Bowman is best in the NHL? That's preposterous.

Poile, Lamoriello, Holland, Rutherford, Lombardi, Armstrong, Francis, Snow, Shero, Chayka, Fletcher, Doug Wilson, Steve Yzerman, Nill.

No order, but I think those guys are best. It would take way too much research to make a real list that isn't 100% BS. I freely admit I don't have that much data stored in my head.

It is also ridiculous that you don't have Benning, Sakic and Bob Murray at the bottom.

- James_Tanner

Well….Bowman inherited a good situation I agree, but he's had to re-work his roster constantly since he's come in as GM and he's won three Cups. That was my thinking anyways.

As for your list, the bolded have no business in any top list, they've proven nothing lately to say they belong up there.

Shero inherited a poopty team that already drafted Crosby and Malkin, he picked Jordan Stall instead of Jonathan Toews. Enough said!

Holland hasn't won anything in almost ten years and he inherited Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Middle of the pack.

Francis, what exactly has he done again???????

Lomoriello, he's struggled as a GM since the inception of the salary cap, yes he won a long time ago and his team fluked a Cup run a few years ago but he's middle of the pack IMO.

SNOW….he's been a GM for ten years there and been to the playoffs TWICE. Despite numerous top picks.

Chayka…come on, give me a frickin break, he's been a GM for two months and he's one of the best in the league??? If that isn't complete homerism I don't know what is/
tomburton99
New York Rangers
Location: NYR distrust, NJ
Joined: 07.13.2009

Jul 25 @ 2:33 PM ET
Well….Bowman inherited a good situation I agree, but he's had to re-work his roster constantly since he's come in as GM and he's won three Cups. That was my thinking anyways.

As for your list, the bolded have no business in any top list, they've proven nothing lately to say they belong up there.

Shero inherited a poopty team that already drafted Crosby and Malkin, he picked Jordan Stall instead of Jonathan Toews. Enough said!

Holland hasn't won anything in almost ten years and he inherited Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Middle of the pack.

Francis, what exactly has he done again???????

Lomoriello, he's struggled as a GM since the inception of the salary cap, yes he won a long time ago and his team fluked a Cup run a few years ago but he's middle of the pack IMO.

SNOW….he's been a GM for ten years there and been to the playoffs TWICE. Despite numerous top picks.

Chayka…come on, give me a frickin break, he's been a GM for two months and he's one of the best in the league??? If that isn't complete homerism I don't know what is/

- LeftCoaster

Told you. You just been #Tannered
mlindsay
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ON
Joined: 06.16.2010

Jul 25 @ 2:53 PM ET
Well….Bowman inherited a good situation I agree, but he's had to re-work his roster constantly since he's come in as GM and he's won three Cups. That was my thinking anyways.

As for your list, the bolded have no business in any top list, they've proven nothing lately to say they belong up there.

Shero inherited a poopty team that already drafted Crosby and Malkin, he picked Jordan Stall instead of Jonathan Toews. Enough said!

Holland hasn't won anything in almost ten years and he inherited Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Middle of the pack.

Francis, what exactly has he done again???????

Lomoriello, he's struggled as a GM since the inception of the salary cap, yes he won a long time ago and his team fluked a Cup run a few years ago but he's middle of the pack IMO.

SNOW….he's been a GM for ten years there and been to the playoffs TWICE. Despite numerous top picks.

Chayka…come on, give me a frickin break, he's been a GM for two months and he's one of the best in the league??? If that isn't complete homerism I don't know what is/

- LeftCoaster

But Chayka loves the advanced stats!!! Automatic top billing!

In all seriousness... You've made too many valid points. You won't get a response. (Similar to his last blog where I refuted his claims on the Habs and got 0 response.)
mdw7413
New York Rangers
Location: I would rather see a dudes hairy balls than his hairy feet-Jimbro
Joined: 12.13.2013

Jul 25 @ 2:55 PM ET
(1) Chicago Blackhawks-Stan Bowman-July 14 2009
(2) Nashville Predators-David Poile-December 11 1997
(3) Dallas Stars-Jim Nill-April 29 2013
(4) Philadelphia Flyers-Ron Hextall-May 7 2014
(5) Los Angeles Kings-Dean Lombardi-April 21 2006
(6) Pittsburgh Penguins-Jim Rutherford-June 6 2014
(7) Tampa Bay Lightning -Steve Yzerman-May 25 2010
(8) St. Louis Blues-Doug Armstrong -July 1 2010
(9) Las Vegas Knights-George McPhee-July 13 2016
(10) Anaheim Ducks-Bob Murray-November 12 2008
(11) San Jose Sharks-Doug Wilson-May 13 2003
(12) Florida Panthers-Tom Rowe-May 16 2016
(13) Washington Capitals-Brian MacLellan-May 26 2014
(14) New York Rangers-Jeff Gorton-July 1 2015
(15) Toronto Maple Leafs-Lou Lamoriello-July 23 2015
(16) Calgary Flames-Brad Treliving-April 28 2014
(17) Detroit Red Wings-Ken Holland-July 18 1997
(18) Buffalo Sabres-Tim Murray-January 9 2014
(19) Edmonton Oilers-Peter Chiarelli-April 15 2013
(20) Minnesota Wild-Chuck Fletcher-May 22 2009
(21) Winnipeg Jets-Kevin Cheveldayoff-June 8 2011
(22) Vancouver Canucks-Jim Benning-May 21 2014
(23) New York Islanders-Garth Snow-July 18 2006
(24) New Jersey Devils-Ray Shero-May 4 2015
(25) Montreal Canadiens-Marc Bergevin-May 2 2012
(26) Carolina Hurricanes-Ron Francis-April 28 2014
(27) Arizona Coyotes -John Chayka-June 2016
(28) Boston Bruins-Don Sweeney-May 20 2015
(29) Ottawa Senators-Pierre Dorion-April 10, 2016
(30) Colorado Avalanche-Joe Sakic-September 19 2014
(31) Columbus BJ's-Jarmo Kekalainen-February 13 2013

- LeftCoaster


Gorton is a bit new so I don't know if you could properly rank him yet. He did sign Miller & Kreider for under what was probably the going rate. Hayes probably a little bit over. Also the Zibanejad trade and the 2nd for Brassard wasn't to shabby. Realized there was major issues with the PK and brought in some pretty good role players for the PK.
DDM-Coga
Colorado Avalanche
Location: If Chabot is not in the NHL, Ill revoke my account - AlfiesSald, AB
Joined: 07.24.2009

Jul 25 @ 2:57 PM ET
Interesting ranking. You really think Bowman is best in the NHL? That's preposterous.

Poile, Lamoriello, Holland, Rutherford, Lombardi, Armstrong, Francis, Snow, Shero, Chayka, Fletcher, Doug Wilson, Steve Yzerman, Nill.

No order, but I think those guys are best. It would take way too much research to make a real list that isn't 100% BS. I freely admit I don't have that much data stored in my head.

It is also ridiculous that you don't have Benning, Sakic and Bob Murray at the bottom.

- James_Tanner


you are such an avs hater, what exactly makes Sakic bottom of the league. The ROR trade? He inherited a powder keg of a situation and made a pretty decent trade out of it,

Honestly James, sometimes you just need to step off your soap box of advance stats and think as a rationale hockey fan
tomburton99
New York Rangers
Location: NYR distrust, NJ
Joined: 07.13.2009

Jul 25 @ 3:03 PM ET
you are such an avs hater, what exactly makes Sakic bottom of the league. The ROR trade? He inherited a powder keg of a situation and made a pretty decent trade out of it,

Honestly James, sometimes you just need to step off your soap box of advance stats and think as a rationale hockey fan

- DDM-Coga

James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Jul 25 @ 3:06 PM ET
you are such an avs hater, what exactly makes Sakic bottom of the league. The ROR trade? He inherited a powder keg of a situation and made a pretty decent trade out of it,

Honestly James, sometimes you just need to step off your soap box of advance stats and think as a rationale hockey fan

- DDM-Coga


No I don't. Sakic, as far as I can tell is just a guy who does whatever Roy tells him. So, he goes straight to the bottom. I would think anyone would be able to make a competitive team out of Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon and Barrie, but no dice.

As for me ranking guys like Florida and Arizona GMs near the top, it's because they are responding to a stupid, outdated way of doing things and so clearly they go directly to the top. I don't overrate championships, so most people won't agree with me, which is fine.

But I think Carolina for example is building a pretty nice group of players and deserves some credit. As for Bowman, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tallon acquire Crawford, Toews, Kane, Hossa and Keith? As well as trade pieces like Ladd and Buff? Cause IMO anyone could win three Cups with that core.
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Jul 25 @ 3:08 PM ET
you are such an avs hater, what exactly makes Sakic bottom of the league. The ROR trade? He inherited a powder keg of a situation and made a pretty decent trade out of it,

Honestly James, sometimes you just need to step off your soap box of advance stats and think as a rationale hockey fan

- DDM-Coga

The exact same can be said for Benning and you repeatedly say he's one of the worst in the league. Gillis and Nonis left him with one of the worst situations in the league, an aging team with ONE prospect worth mentioning, plus their number two center had requested a trade with a FULL NTC.

Truth is you can can make valid points for most of the GM's in the league for and against. IMO GM's with two or three years in the league can all be placed bottom 15 because they really haven't proven what they're capable of.
LeftCoaster
Location: Valley Of The Sun, AZ
Joined: 07.03.2009

Jul 25 @ 3:11 PM ET
Gorton is a bit new so I don't know if you could properly rank him yet. He did sign Miller & Kreider for under what was probably the going rate. Hayes probably a little bit over. Also the Zibanejad trade and the 2nd for Brassard wasn't to shabby. Realized there was major issues with the PK and brought in some pretty good role players for the PK.
- mdw7413

Ya his body of work isn't really that big so he's middle of the pack.
mdw7413
New York Rangers
Location: I would rather see a dudes hairy balls than his hairy feet-Jimbro
Joined: 12.13.2013

Jul 25 @ 3:15 PM ET
Ya his body of work isn't really that big so he's middle of the pack.
- LeftCoaster


The E. Staal trade though..
BestRapperAlive
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: OEL is one of the greatest players of his generation - James Tanner
Joined: 06.21.2012

Jul 25 @ 3:15 PM ET
Sure, why not? It was the most important part of my education. It really helped me with deductive reasoning, for instance, I know that you don't have any training in that field by how clever you think you're being right now.
- James_Tanner


You sound like a 12 year old James.
Tonybere
New York Rangers
Location: ON
Joined: 02.04.2016

Jul 25 @ 3:17 PM ET
No I don't. Sakic, as far as I can tell is just a guy who does whatever Roy tells him. So, he goes straight to the bottom. I would think anyone would be able to make a competitive team out of Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon and Barrie, but no dice.

As for me ranking guys like Florida and Arizona GMs near the top, it's because they are responding to a stupid, outdated way of doing things and so clearly they go directly to the top. I don't overrate championships, so most people won't agree with me, which is fine.

But I think Carolina for example is building a pretty nice group of players and deserves some credit. As for Bowman, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tallon acquire Crawford, Toews, Kane, Hossa and Keith? As well as trade pieces like Ladd and Buff? Cause IMO anyone could win three Cups with that core.

- James_Tanner


So, because they are doing something different, they are the best? No experience necessary - you are the best at what you do, just because you choose not to follow the example of people who know what they're doing!
And you don't overrate championships? Interesting. What, pray tell, is the measuring stick that should be employed if not attaining the pinnacle of your sport? Which, by the way, is EXACTLY what every GM will tell you is their goal at the start of EVERY season.
If that is how you employ your prized critical thinking skills, you may want to ask Dumbass Community College for your money back.
tomburton99
New York Rangers
Location: NYR distrust, NJ
Joined: 07.13.2009

Jul 25 @ 3:28 PM ET
You sound like a 12 year old James.
- BestRapperAlive

mlindsay
Montreal Canadiens
Location: ON
Joined: 06.16.2010

Jul 25 @ 3:38 PM ET

- tomburton99

rinaldo
Joined: 05.10.2011

Jul 25 @ 3:40 PM ET
Tanner has gormley or rundblad signed with anyone yet?
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Jul 25 @ 4:12 PM ET
You sound like a 12 year old James.
- BestRapperAlive



I see I hit a soft spot.
DDM-Coga
Colorado Avalanche
Location: If Chabot is not in the NHL, Ill revoke my account - AlfiesSald, AB
Joined: 07.24.2009

Jul 25 @ 4:14 PM ET
No I don't. Sakic, as far as I can tell is just a guy who does whatever Roy tells him. So, he goes straight to the bottom. I would think anyone would be able to make a competitive team out of Duchene, Landeskog, MacKinnon and Barrie, but no dice.

As for me ranking guys like Florida and Arizona GMs near the top, it's because they are responding to a stupid, outdated way of doing things and so clearly they go directly to the top. I don't overrate championships, so most people won't agree with me, which is fine.

But I think Carolina for example is building a pretty nice group of players and deserves some credit. As for Bowman, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Tallon acquire Crawford, Toews, Kane, Hossa and Keith? As well as trade pieces like Ladd and Buff? Cause IMO anyone could win three Cups with that core.

- James_Tanner


that is the furthest thing from the truth. Roy constantly says he does not have final say over the roster. Sakic and McFarland do. I know you dont follow the team so you wouldnt know that, but the blind people have for Roy is incredible. Sakic is not running the team into the ground. He has been a very average to sometimes good GM.

Just people like to hit up this LOLorado story line without actually taking the time to look into the moves they have done in the past 2 years.

This offseason, they lock up their own RFAs, they hire 2 up and coming coaches in eric veilleux to coach the rampage, and hire Nolan Pratt to work with the D in Colorado. They sign good value guys in Tutyin, Weircoich, and Colborne to help with their shot suppressing issues. But nope its Colorado stinks, they dont know what they are doing.

I just cant stand the lazy efforts some writers take in tryign to speak about my team. You dont have to like them, but at least take a ltitle time and effort in researching them instead of just throwing something out there and standing behind its my word so its correct narrative.
eichiefs9
New York Islanders
Location: NY
Joined: 11.03.2008

Jul 25 @ 4:16 PM ET
I see I hit a soft spot.
- James_Tanner

My dad did that when I was 3mo old.
DDM-Coga
Colorado Avalanche
Location: If Chabot is not in the NHL, Ill revoke my account - AlfiesSald, AB
Joined: 07.24.2009

Jul 25 @ 4:16 PM ET
The exact same can be said for Benning and you repeatedly say he's one of the worst in the league. Gillis and Nonis left him with one of the worst situations in the league, an aging team with ONE prospect worth mentioning, plus their number two center had requested a trade with a FULL NTC.

Truth is you can can make valid points for most of the GM's in the league for and against. IMO GM's with two or three years in the league can all be placed bottom 15 because they really haven't proven what they're capable of.

- LeftCoaster


Benning isnt the worst but he has had some highs and lows with him. When hes hit, its been nice, but he has has some really bad misses too but whatever.

I get it, Benning is hockey twitters running joke so its tiring to see it at times. Its like what Av fans have to deal with Patrick Roy. Pot shots all the time bc people just dont like him in gernal so they just move that hate onto the Avs.
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