There's been hundreds of guys that came in looked great and faded out, in every sport.

Key is, players have to not only be skilled enough to make it, but be skilled enough to adapt when teams get a "book" on them, like the Sbisa example Bill mentioned in the post.

Look at a guy like Mason. He had oodles of talent, but was unable to adapt after a monster rookie year. He struggled with his own limitations and the Jackets didn't have a good situation to help him. When he got here, Reese took him under his wing and really helped him, not only with technique and physical elements, but in creating a mindset that helped him regain his level of play.
- Jsaquella

Yeah I have no doubt there is a mental maturity that goes along with being physically mature. I don't think I was mentally mature to be a professional before the age of 21, even if I had the skill. I just wonder how much of being a bust is "being rushed by the team"

Rangers avoid arbitration with Kreider 4 years at $4.625mm. His hearing was set for today. Schenn's is Monday
- Jsaquella

4 x 4.825

Carle, Colaiacovo, Gagner, Grossmann, Richards, Luke Schenn, Seidenberg, Umberger, Versteeg ... all former Flyers who played in 15-16 but are without NHL contracts right now.
- Feanor

It's tough for mid level veterans. May see some movement once the arbitration hearings are finished, more likely a lot of guys on PTOs heading into camp

4 x 4.825
- YuenglingJagr

General Fanager ‏@generalfanager 4m4 minutes ago

With Kreider at 4 yrs @ $4.625M per @NHL_AaronWard, #NYR have est. $6.025M in cap space with roster of 12F/8D/2G.
http://generalfanager.com/rangers

He was asking for $4.75mm, why would NY give him more before the hearing?

Hard to say. AMac would still have a deal somewhere, just wouldn't be for 5 million. The only current roster player who would likely struggle to find NHL work would be VDV and perhaps Weal, and both may end up in AHL anyway.
- BiggE

To be fair, Michael Del Zotto was on the market for awhile before we picked him up. I think Mac would struggle too.

General Fanager ‏@generalfanager 4m4 minutes ago

With Kreider at 4 yrs @ $4.625M per @NHL_AaronWard, #NYR have est. $6.025M in cap space with roster of 12F/8D/2G.
http://generalfanager.com/rangers

He was asking for $4.75mm, why would NY give him more before the hearing?
- Jsaquella

haha nah i was just saying schenn will sign for 4 x 4.825

Rangers avoid arbitration with Kreider 4 years at $4.625mm. His hearing was set for today. Schenn's is Monday
- Jsaquella

I could see Schenn getting something similar in regards to the aav, but maybe for only 3 years.

haha nah i was just saying schenn will sign for 4 x 4.825
- YuenglingJagr

My bad, and I hope you are correct. I think this pretty much get Schenn $5mm or more

I could see Schenn getting something similar in regards to the aav, but maybe for only 3 years.
- BiggE

Schenn outscored Kreider by 16 points this season, but he's getting a shorter deal?

I could see Schenn getting something similar in regards to the aav, but maybe for only 3 years.
- BiggE

I have absolutely no interest in a 2-3 year deal for the Flyers

My bad, and I hope you are correct. I think this pretty much get Schenn $5mm or more
- Jsaquella

i flip flop between 4x4.825 and 5x5

I could see Schenn getting something similar in regards to the aav, but maybe for only 3 years.
- BiggE

He's getting $5mm at least, IMO. Only question is what's the term?

He's getting $5mm at least, IMO. Only question is what's the term?
- Jsaquella

Yeah, you're probably right. I still think it will only be for 3 years, or 4 max. I'm not sure that they are totally sold that the Schenn who showed up from January on is the real deal.

Schenn outscored Kreider by 16 points this season, but he's getting a shorter deal?
- Feanor

Similar deals. Similar points per game throughout their careers, shooting %, etc.

Yeah, you're probably right. I still think it will only be for 3 years, or 4 max. I'm not sure that they are totally sold that the Schenn who showed up from January on is the real deal.
- BiggE

I'd have no issue going to arbitration, unless he's demanding $6mm or so. The key for me, sadly, is making sure that whatever he gets is a tradeable deal.

It's not a knock on him, but I don't view him as a core piece. He's the first among the secondary pieces, but he's had really only 4 months where he showed sustained consistency and being more than a guy who was noticeable only when he scored.

I'm always for the player getting his money, but I also don't think it's the end of the world and nothing gets settled either. I'm happy Schenn had a good season but that doesn't mean Hextall has to cave in to a long term deal. If he gets more than 4 years or more than 5AAV, he better have seasons like last year to continue.

I have absolutely no interest in a 2-3 year deal for the Flyers
- YuenglingJagr

I like Schenn a lot but if he gets more than 5 million from the flyers or even arbitration, I'm hoping it's in the form of a one year deal.

Yeah, you're probably right. I still think it will only be for 3 years, or 4 max. I'm not sure that they are totally sold that the Schenn who showed up from January on is the real deal.
- BiggE

what is the point of a 3 year deal though? to me that just makes him loui erikson. I doubt they trade him at the deadline so it would be a draft day trade and I think he will be more valuable with multiple years left on his deal.

it worked for milan lucic I guess, but I think a team will be willing to give up more knowing he is signed to a good deal (i.e. signed at only 5 million if he continues his scoring pace)

Similar deals. Similar points per game throughout their careers, shooting %, etc.
- wolfhounds

new york taxes are higher so schenn will probably sign a team friendly aav here

I'd have no issue going to arbitration, unless he's demanding $6mm or so. The key for me, sadly, is making sure that whatever he gets is a tradeable deal.

It's not a knock on him, but I don't view him as a core piece. He's the first among the secondary pieces, but he's had really only 4 months where he showed sustained consistency and being more than a guy who was noticeable only when he scored.
- Jsaquella

Yup, that's exactly as I see him. That being said, I'd love to see him go out and put up 30 goals and 65 points and prove me wrong.

new york taxes are higher so schenn will probably sign a team friendly aav here
- YuenglingJagr

so savvy

Yup, that's exactly as I see him. That being said, I'd love to see him go out and put up 30 goals and 65 points and prove me wrong.
- BiggE

I'm with you guys. I'm hopeful that he truly did turn the corner the 2nd half of the season, but I can't completely buy into him being able to sustain that level of play through a whole season... yet. I do think he's improving, playing better without the puck, and yes, hopefully he comes into the season looking to prove he's worth whatever contract he gets and puts up 60-70 points.

In Ron we must trust! I do but the anticipation is driving me nuts! But when I envision this team in a season or two, I see really good things! I hope others see the same!

Dont forget Steve Downie....and Dan Cleary lol
- YuenglingJagr

I liked Steve Downie in his second stint with the Flyers. I honestly think we would have stood a better chance against the Rangers with a healthy down on that Coots, Read and Downie line.

In Ron we must trust! I do but the anticipation is driving me nuts! But when I envision this team in a season or two, I see really good things! I hope others see the same!
- Poweinthekisser

Nice, now I have that Family Guy episode running through my head...

Yes, definitely see a good future for the Flyers, hopefully dominant with all the prospects and young guys coming together and getting it done.