And Panarin has done exactly what without Kane in his career?

Kane has had to play with Richards, Handzus, Bolland, Shaw as his centers...and even played center himself. Panarin came in and got to play with arguably the best playmaker in the game and a solid NHL centerman (AA) right off the bat.

Panarin is the one that needs to take a step back and realize the situation he stepped into. If he wants to move to STL and have Jaskin and Rattie giving him all that open ice, enjoy
- PatShart

by this logic we can say the reason bottom six guys are bottom six guys is because they play with other bottom six guys. No the reason they are bottom six guys is because they play whack a mole instead of roofing one timers

NBC set to show highest number of NHL games ever this year - 106. Apparently last year was the most-watched season in 22 years.

https://www.nhl.com/news/...s-this-season/c-281208698

Maybe this year's draft having so many US kids is helping increase visibility (and hopefully marketing dollars) on this side of the border.

Just a thought on Vesey,
If Boston was a cinch to land him, why wouldn't they make a trade to acquire his rights? If he is that good then why wait two months and possibly allow him to get interested in another club.

by this logic we can say the reason bottom six guys are bottom six guys is because they play with other bottom six guys. No the reason they are bottom six guys is because they play whack a mole instead of roofing one timers
- Kewl1

I think that is a bit too absolute. Top players are top players because of individual things they can do AND their ability to play with other top players. As you say, what people do with the puck is important, but I also believe what you do without the puck is almost as important.

- Finding open areas on the ice
- Creating space driving the net
- Creating traffic/screens

the list can go on but I think the Panarin/AA/Kane just clicked well on a whole and had a good balance on the attack. There were a lot of ways that line could beat opponents.

Just a thought on Vesey,
If Boston was a cinch to land him, why wouldn't they make a trade to acquire his rights? If he is that good then why wait two months and possibly allow him to get interested in another club.
- Minestrone

Why trade an asset if you can have him for nothing?

Why trade an asset if you can have him for nothing?
- PatShart

An asset that isn't worth much is a small price to pay for for Vesey. Assuming the lovefest for him is just. I would give up a 3rd rather than risk losing him.

An asset that isn't worth much is a small price to pay for for Vesey. Assuming the lovefest for him is just. I would give up a 3rd rather than risk losing him.
- Minestrone

When he has told everyone he will go unti afterl 8/15 to make his decision, there's no point in trading for him.

How'd the trade of a 3rd round pick work out for BUFF?

Artemi Panarin is a 60+ point player whether he's playing with Patrick Kane or on any other Top 6 line in the NHL. Go back and watch the tape from last season. His puck possession time and creativity were not far behind 88's. They are magic together and I think it is wrong to diminish his accomplishments as a rookie in the NHL's toughest division. You want to talk about a "rebuild" type situation? Get a package of picks for 72's offer sheet next summer. Then it's up Schmaltz and Debimcat to fill the voids at 1LW and 2LW. Good luck with that! Move Crow and/or Kruger before you let this comrade go.

Artemi Panarin is a 60+ point player whether he's playing with Patrick Kane or on any other Top 6 line in the NHL. Go back and watch the tape from last season. His puck possession time and creativity were not far behind 88's. They are magic together and I think it is wrong to diminish his accomplishments as a rookie in the NHL's toughest division. You want to talk about a "rebuild" type situation? Get a package of picks for 72's offer sheet next summer. Then it's up Schmaltz and Debimcat to fill the voids at 1LW and 2LW. Good luck with that! Move Crow and/or Kruger before you let this comrade go.
- EnzoD

All of this ^^^^^

Artemi Panarin is a 60+ point player whether he's playing with Patrick Kane or on any other Top 6 line in the NHL. Go back and watch the tape from last season. His puck possession time and creativity were not far behind 88's. They are magic together and I think it is wrong to diminish his accomplishments as a rookie in the NHL's toughest division. You want to talk about a "rebuild" type situation? Get a package of picks for 72's offer sheet next summer. Then it's up Schmaltz and Debimcat to fill the voids at 1LW and 2LW. Good luck with that! Move Crow and/or Kruger before you let this comrade go.
- EnzoD

And I don't think you give 7mil for 60pts or let him hold the team hostage for that either

There was a good discussion yesterday on Buzzcast blog about changes that can be made to the game and how to increase scoring, etc.

I just read an awesome article from Adam Oates on the Players Tribune and his thoughts on the game and why increasing the rink size and this idea that the game needs to get faster, isn't the answer. Below is a snippet of what he's talking about and I think it makes a lot of sense:

"With Gretz, the magic was all about how he manipulated his opponent through misdirection. Wayne’s footwork when he was handling the puck at a standstill was just as impressive as when he was skating full-speed down the wing. This is why it’s funny to me that all you hear about in the NHL today is the need for speed, size and strength. Fans who want more scoring talk about how to fix things. Bigger rinks? Smaller goalie equipment?

I think the solution is a lot simpler. We can still learn from Wayne today. The game is about skill and smarts.

Don’t get me wrong, the sport has evolved since the ’80s, when I was watching Wayne through the tracking fuzz. There’s more knowledge about proper conditioning and diet, and composite sticks have made a huge difference — especially with the velocity of shots.

Don’t get me wrong, the sport has evolved since the ’80s, when I was watching Wayne through the tracking fuzz. There’s more knowledge about proper conditioning and diet, and composite sticks have made a huge difference — especially with the velocity of shots.

But if the league is dead set on increasing scoring, I don’t think making the rinks bigger is going to solve anything. In fact, if I had to choose, I’d make them smaller if it wouldn’t lead to more contact-related injuries.

The reason is simple. There’s always going to be a ton of guys who can skate, especially with the emphasis now on training and athleticism. But there’s not enough of a premium on players with the brains or the hands to be real playmakers..."

Quick question...who had the superior mustache in your guys opinion:

Michel Goulet or Dirk Graham?
- Hank3Henshaw

#33 for sure...waiting for the super trooper gif now....

Artemi Panarin is a 60+ point player whether he's playing with Patrick Kane or on any other Top 6 line in the NHL. Go back and watch the tape from last season. His puck possession time and creativity were not far behind 88's. They are magic together and I think it is wrong to diminish his accomplishments as a rookie in the NHL's toughest division. You want to talk about a "rebuild" type situation? Get a package of picks for 72's offer sheet next summer. Then it's up Schmaltz and Debimcat to fill the voids at 1LW and 2LW. Good luck with that! Move Crow and/or Kruger before you let this comrade go.
- EnzoD

This.

Yet he was still better than a lot of our star players in the series. He beat Crawford with his shot often. Since the Hawks have been a playoff team again, he has scored the most goals against us in the playoffs with 8 in 13 games. (Daniel Sedin also had 8 in 19 games)

Sure he may have some more maturing to do but defensively there is very little difference between Panarin and Tarasenko, IMO. From a statistic point of view, Panarin also got an edge is more offensive zone/defensive zone starts.

Panarin is great, but Tarasenko is better. No shame in it.
- breadbag

I wasn't really comparing the two. Tarasenko now reminds me of OV until Trotz came over and Crosby up until last year. Tarasenko is a beast, strong, as good a shot in the league but has a ways to go to learn to be a winner.

What goes unsaid too often is that little Panarin is a fierce little dude, as much so when he doesn't have the puck. He's a battler on all 200 feet of the ice, has a bit of an edge to him as well.

I saw both Crosby and OV grow in that way this year. The emphasis was on winning, ignoring the crap and upping the compete level to all 3 zones, especially Crosby.

IMO Tarasenko has to learn to compete in all 3 zones to become elite, he's not yet, but he is offensively. IMO Panarin is the more rounded player at this point but Tarasenko has a higher ceiling.

Exactly. In football (also a team game) who does the receiver make the QB better or vice versa? Does a Jerry Rice make a Jonathan Quinn a Tom Brady????
- Kewl1

The offensive line.........

I think that is a bit too absolute. Top players are top players because of individual things they can do AND their ability to play with other top players. As you say, what people do with the puck is important, but I also believe what you do without the puck is almost as important.

- Finding open areas on the ice
- Creating space driving the net
- Creating traffic/screens

the list can go on but I think the Panarin/AA/Kane just clicked well on a whole and had a good balance on the attack. There were a lot of ways that line could beat opponents.
- breadbag

and these are all the things the bottom six guys don't do as well either.
In every sport there are elite players, the middle of the road players, and the Brandon Mashrunblads. To those suggesting Panarin got 'lucky' playing on the PAK line, well, that's absurd, he was a major part helping that line go, and Kaner and Anisimov aside, Panarin earned every point last year, even that long empty netter that helped keep Kane's point streak alive, which was a thing of beauty, as empty netters go.

Kane was a defensive liability his first 3 to 4 seasons.
- pjm901

My section called him Candy Kane and I started it. Watching this guy live could be and was too often painful painful to watch. Complete lack of effort unless he was going forward to the offensive zone.

I posted 2 years ago this guy has turned into a man. Kane is a hockey player as of two years ago in my mind.

Indeed Tarasenko has all the skills to become an elite hockey player and a winner but as of today IMO he's only elite offensively. What the Cossack doesn't have that Kane does is a Seabs, Keith, Hossa, Toews, Hammer to watch be complete pros. Couple solid Blues in Pietroangelo and Steen but you also had a BackAss and Ott.

And I don't think you give 7mil for 60pts or let him hold the team hostage for that either
- PatShart

Yes, but 60 point players get $6mil+ and 77+ point players definitely get north of $6mil AAV. Hawks will have ONE legitimate Top 6 winger after this summer if Panarin is not retained. Hossa will be going on 39 and is already barely hanging on to Top 6 Production. I just don't see how anything and everything (within reason) is not done to retain Artemi Panarin. StanBo hit the KHL Jackpot, you dont let him go if he comes close to that kind of production this year. Also, the more time goes by, the more likely that a deal is not done until next summer, at which point in time another 70 point season will all but guarantee that he is getting $7mil AAV. How can anyone justify Kruger and his 4 points (zero goals) at $3.1 mil but not justify Artemi Panarin and his 20X the production for 2x the price? I know Kruger's role is not offense but the fact remains that you need to score goals, and outside of 88 + 19, this team is severely lacking goal scorers. I am praying to the Hockey Gods for a 6 year deal at $5.5-$6mil...I strongly believe a Panarin extension is the most important thing for StanBo to do whether it's this summer or VERY early in the RS.

Artemi Panarin is a 60+ point player whether he's playing with Patrick Kane or on any other Top 6 line in the NHL. Go back and watch the tape from last season. His puck possession time and creativity were not far behind 88's. They are magic together and I think it is wrong to diminish his accomplishments as a rookie in the NHL's toughest division. You want to talk about a "rebuild" type situation? Get a package of picks for 72's offer sheet next summer. Then it's up Schmaltz and Debimcat to fill the voids at 1LW and 2LW. Good luck with that! Move Crow and/or Kruger before you let this comrade go.
- EnzoD

Debrincat plays RW if I recall correctly. Believe he will hopefully be a Hossa replacement on the right side in the future, though a somewhat different skill set.

Artemi Panarin is a 60+ point player whether he's playing with Patrick Kane or on any other Top 6 line in the NHL. Go back and watch the tape from last season. His puck possession time and creativity were not far behind 88's. They are magic together and I think it is wrong to diminish his accomplishments as a rookie in the NHL's toughest division. You want to talk about a "rebuild" type situation? Get a package of picks for 72's offer sheet next summer. Then it's up Schmaltz and Debimcat to fill the voids at 1LW and 2LW. Good luck with that! Move Crow and/or Kruger before you let this comrade go.
- EnzoD

Is your argument that if Panarin wants 7.5 per the Hawks do it no matter the consequence? If they have to move Crow for a 2nd rounder and give up a Motte to get someone to take Kruger's money you do that to keep Panarin?

It's black and white? Whatever needs done do it and pay the kid whatever he wants?

Remember Zo you're on the side StanBow has paid too much too keep the core.

I wasn't really comparing the two. Tarasenko now reminds me of OV until Trotz came over and Crosby up until last year. Tarasenko is a beast, strong, as good a shot in the league but has a ways to go to learn to be a winner.

What goes unsaid too often is that little Panarin is a fierce little dude, as much so when he doesn't have the puck. He's a battler on all 200 feet of the ice, has a bit of an edge to him as well.

I saw both Crosby and OV grow in that way this year. The emphasis was on winning, ignoring the crap and upping the compete level to all 3 zones, especially Crosby.

IMO Tarasenko has to learn to compete in all 3 zones to become elite, he's not yet, but he is offensively. IMO Panarin is the more rounded player at this point but Tarasenko has a higher ceiling.
- Mr Ricochet

I don't get why you think Tarasenko has a higher ceiling than Panarin when you admit Panarin is the more rounded player already. Both are the same age and Tarasenko has 3 more NHL seasons under his belt. Anyway, I'm sure the ONLY things Hawks and Blues fans would agree to is they'd really like the other guy on their team too.

Is your argument that if Panarin wants 7.5 per the Hawks do it no matter the consequence? If they have to move Crow for a 2nd rounder and give up a Motte to get someone to take Kruger's money you do that to keep Panarin?

It's black and white? Whatever needs done do it and pay the kid whatever he wants?

Remember Zo you're on the side StanBow has paid too much too keep the core.
- Mr Ricochet

Primarily 19, 88, 7 and 16 (and Bickell lol), but you are correct, Stan cannot afford him over $7mil. $7mil is the ceiling and I think he is worth it, I really do. Though, I see this unfolding like Brandon Saad all over again....


EDIT: I posted earlier in the summer the Top 20 scorers in the NHL this past season and their AAV salary. All but 3 or 4 were making north of $6mil and Panarin outscored them....in his rookie year.....

Yes, but 60 point players get $6mil+ and 77+ point players definitely get north of $6mil AAV. Hawks will have ONE legitimate Top 6 winger after this summer if Panarin is not retained. Hossa will be going on 39 and is already barely hanging on to Top 6 Production. I just don't see how anything and everything (within reason) is not done to retain Artemi Panarin. StanBo hit the KHL Jackpot, you dont let him go if he comes close to that kind of production this year. Also, the more time goes by, the more likely that a deal is not done until next summer, at which point in time another 70 point season will all but guarantee that he is getting $7mil AAV. How can anyone justify Kruger and his 4 points (zero goals) at $3.1 mil but not justify Artemi Panarin and his 20X the production for 2x the price? I know Kruger's role is not offense but the fact remains that you need to score goals, and outside of 88 + 19, this team is severely lacking goal scorers. I am praying to the Hockey Gods for a 6 year deal at $5.5-$6mil...I strongly believe a Panarin extension is the most important thing for StanBo to do whether it's this summer or VERY early in the RS.
- EnzoD

all of this!!

Yes, but 60 point players get $6mil+ and 77+ point players definitely get north of $6mil AAV. Hawks will have ONE legitimate Top 6 winger after this summer if Panarin is not retained. Hossa will be going on 39 and is already barely hanging on to Top 6 Production. I just don't see how anything and everything (within reason) is not done to retain Artemi Panarin. StanBo hit the KHL Jackpot, you dont let him go if he comes close to that kind of production this year. Also, the more time goes by, the more likely that a deal is not done until next summer, at which point in time another 70 point season will all but guarantee that he is getting $7mil AAV. How can anyone justify Kruger and his 4 points (zero goals) at $3.1 mil but not justify Artemi Panarin and his 20X the production for 2x the price? I know Kruger's role is not offense but the fact remains that you need to score goals, and outside of 88 + 19, this team is severely lacking goal scorers. I am praying to the Hockey Gods for a 6 year deal at $5.5-$6mil...I strongly believe a Panarin extension is the most important thing for StanBo to do whether it's this summer or VERY early in the RS.
- EnzoD

I strongly believe StanBow needs to get full value from the lottery ticket he found that is Panarin. Whether that be signing him long term or moving him for a bunch.

I'm on the side of signing the kid and making the core younger but if it's not doable it's not doable. It takes two to make a deal.

I strongly believe StanBow needs to get full value from the lottery ticket he found that is Panarin. Whether that be signing him long term or moving him for a bunch.

I'm on the side of signing the kid and making the core younger but if it's not doable it's not doable. It takes two to make a deal.
- Mr Ricochet

Yep, and if it becomes apparent he wont sign a workable extension, then trade him before the midnight hour to try and get close to fair value in return. But, again, who scores the goals outside of 19+88 if 72 is moved?