Saad, Shaw and Oduya chose dollars over depth too.
- pjm901

Saad def wanted the money.

I thought it came out that Shaw actually asked for less, but the Hawks sort of exaggerated the amount to soften the blow of the trade so they didn't look like the bad guys.

Oduya held out forever, trying to negotiate a deal that would keep him with the Hawks, but it just didn't happen.

He was on his way to being MVP before he got hurt the season before without Panarin.
- pjm901

That is debatable and can be argued. He was 1 point in the lead for scoring when he got hurt with weeks left to go. It was a great season for him, but it wasn't like this last season where he was a clear winner.

I haven't seen anyone in this debate mention that AA doing the dirty work was what let Kane and Panarin score a lot of the points they did. How many goals did they score that were a result of AA digging a puck out on the boards? How many goals was he screening the goalie on?

and no other factors at play? like maybe he's hitting his prime? Kane flat out played better last year than any year before.
- Kewl1

There are always factors but the chemistry between Kane and Panarin was apparent all year. Who you play with matters. There is nobody in the NHL that produces the same offensive output no matter who they play with. If you want to believe that Kane just suddenly increased his scoring and his linemates didn't help, go ahead.

What Schmaltz does or doesn't do this year will have bearing on what is done, or isn't, with Panarin at year's end. ...I think the Hawks think Schmaltz can be a 65-70 point guy and he plays the pivot.
- Mr Ricochet

That would be a seriously bad gamble to make if that's what the Hawks brass is thinking. Panarin is 4 years older than Schmaltz and the KHL is far more advanced than college hockey. Plus Panarin already had a 62pt season right before he joined the Hawks.

I haven't seen anyone in this debate mention that AA doing the dirty work was what let Kane and Panarin score a lot of the points they did. How many goals did they score that were a result of AA digging a puck out on the boards? How many goals was he screening the goalie on?
- pjm901

I've always said that AA does a lot of the little things that doesn't show up on a stat sheet, but makes the guys around him able to do what they do and succeed.

Vermette was the same way in my opinion.

There are always factors but the chemistry between Kane and Panarin was apparent all year. Who you play with matters. There is nobody in the NHL that produces the same offensive output no matter who they play with. If you want to believe that Kane just suddenly increased his scoring and his linemates didn't help, go ahead.
- breadbag

No one is saying Panarin didn't help. Kane had already shown he could produce at a high level. Had he stayed healthy he would have had a chance to lead the league in scoring with Brad Richards and Versteeg as his linemates.

Saad, Shaw and Oduya chose dollars over depth too.
- pjm901

you have to be kidding me. Teows and Kane and Seabs were all going on there 2nd big deal when they signed the current deals. JO waited around till after all the teams had spent money on the hopes the hawks could come up with 3 mil. SAAD wanted to paid around what a Avg #1 LW would be paid. Shaw wanted to be paid like a good 3rd line player and would have taken less then 3.9 to stay IMO. SAAD should have signed a 2 year 3.5 mil deal? Shaw should have take a 3 X 3? JO should have taken a 2 X 2?

What we are saying is should at the time T and K been the highest paid players in the league? Yes but did it have to be by 1 mil each. something around 9.75 or 10 would have done the same. Seabs was already a top 15 paid d man in the league and he deserved a raise into the top 10? and paid that till 39?

Lets go a new way. How long will T and K be the 2 highest paid players in the league? We know for sure the 1st 2 years of the deal. My guess is 6/7 of the 8 years. how many year into his 30's is Seabs going to be a top 15 paid d man? I say 36. So at 36 he may be a bottom pairing guy that can only skate 15 mins a night Oh and by the way we just signed a 36 year old D man, one of the best older d man in the league for 2 mil for 1 year.

- DarthKane

That first one stuck out to me the most in terms of sportsmanship, teamwork, and leadership out of all the years I have been a hockey fan. Definitely my favorite moment as a hawks fan, aside from the three cups

Here's the thing with Seabrook, fatigue and is always the "pole to lean on" for young defenders as we saw.

What I can almost guarantee is he is still a top pair defenseman on - to be fair, 10-15 teams. R & R and playing with a quality NHL defender and he can only improve. Give it until after this season at least to judge him as being "done or an overhyped and ridiculous contract." Give it time. Q still sees him as a great defender.

you have to be kidding me. Teows and Kane and Seabs were all going on there 2nd big deal when they signed the current deals. JO waited around till after all the teams had spent money on the hopes the hawks could come up with 3 mil. SAAD wanted to bad around what a Avg #1 LW would be paid. Shaw wanted to be paid like a good 3rd line player and would have taken less then 3.9 to stay IMO. SAAD should have signed a 2 year 3.5 mil deal? Shaw should have take a 3 X 3? JO should have taken a 2 X 2?

What we are saying is should at the time T and K been the highest paid players in the league? Yes but did it have to be by 1 mil each. something around 9.75 or 10 would have done the same. Seabs was already a top 15 paid d man in the league and he deserved a raise into the top 10? and paid that till 39?

Lets go a new way. How long will T and K be the 2 highest paid players in the league? We know for sure the 1st 2 years of the deal. My guess is 6/7 of the 8 years. how many year into his 30's is Seabs going to be a top 15 paid d man? I say 36. So at 36 he may be a bottom pairing guy that can only skate 15 mins a night Oh and by the way we just signed a 36 year old D man, one of the best older d man in the league for 2 mil for 1 year.
- kmw4631

How is greed a problem only for Toews, Kane and Seabrook? Saad left to get paid. Oduya left to get paid. Shaw wanted to get paid. Do you know for sure Shaw would have signed for less than 3.9? You don't. You don't know what Saad or Oduya were looking for from the Hawks either.

They got Campbell for 2 mil because he really wanted to be here and knew they couldn't pay him much. Money wasn't a deciding factor for him. For the other players listed above it was.

Edit: And lets not dump all the blame on the players. The team was willing to give them that money.

Edit #2: It wasn't that long ago that Campbell's bloated contract contributed to previous cap problems.

No one is saying Panarin didn't help. Kane had already shown he could produce at a high level. Had he stayed healthy he would have had a chance to lead the league in scoring with Brad Richards and Versteeg as his linemates.
- pjm901

What I'm saying is there is a difference between being among the scoring leaders and pulling away from the pack. I don't think it is a coincidence that Kane gets new linemates and then scores 30% more than his career average and about 25% more than the year before.

IMO, Kane and Panarin compliment each other offensively and until Kane can put up another 105+ points (without Panarin) I think he should be thankful to have him on the opposite wing.

How is greed a problem only for Toews, Kane and Seabrook? Saad left to get paid. Oduya left to get paid. Shaw wanted to get paid. Do you know for sure Shaw would have signed for less than 3.9? You don't. You don't know what Saad or Oduya were looking for from the Hawks either.

They got Campbell for 2 mil because he really wanted to be here and knew they couldn't pay him much. Money wasn't a deciding factor for him. For the other players listed above it was.

Edit: And lets not dump all the blame on the players. The team was willing to give them that money.
- pjm901

I never fault people for wanting to get paid for their jobs and services. Nothing wrong with that. For the limited time as an athlete, they should maximize.

There are always factors but the chemistry between Kane and Panarin was apparent all year. Who you play with matters. There is nobody in the NHL that produces the same offensive output no matter who they play with. If you want to believe that Kane just suddenly increased his scoring and his linemates didn't help, go ahead.
- breadbag

I'm not disagreeing with you that chemistry doesn't play a role, nor that everyone on the PAK line didn't benefit from playing with each other. What I do disagree with is the opposite: that Toews had a bad year because Hossa couldn't elevate his shot or he didn't have a 1LW. He just had a bad year. Kane had a great year, so did Panarin, and 'great assists' aside, it all boils down to what EACH player did with the puck when it was on their stick. Alot of Kane's and Paranin's goals last year were just spectacular

What I'm saying is there is a difference between being among the scoring leaders and pulling away from the pack. I don't think it is a coincidence that Kane gets new linemates and then scores 30% more than his career average and about 25% more than the year before.

IMO, Kane and Panarin compliment each other offensively and until Kane can put up another 105+ points (without Panarin) I think he should be thankful to have him on the opposite wing.
- breadbag

You need to throw AA in there too, because he helped them a lot.

How is greed a problem only for Toews, Kane and Seabrook? Saad left to get paid. Oduya left to get paid. Shaw wanted to get paid. Do you know for sure Shaw would have signed for less than 3.9? You don't. You don't know what Saad or Oduya were looking for from the Hawks either.

They got Campbell for 2 mil because he really wanted to be here and knew they couldn't pay him much. Money wasn't a deciding factor for him. For the other players listed above it was.

Edit: And lets not dump all the blame on the players. The team was willing to give them that money.
- pjm901

It was chemistry, plan and simple. Both players made each other better from an offensive output point of view. Without Panarin, Kane doesn't break 100 points and without Kane, Panarin wouldn't have been winning the Calder.
- breadbag

I also would apply some credit to Anisimov as well. How many seasons has Kane gone with a new center EVERY season? Including centering the line himself for part of a season.

That has a lot to do with it as well.

You need to throw AA in there too, because he helped them a lot.
- pjm901

You beat me to it.

How is greed a problem only for Toews, Kane and Seabrook? Saad left to get paid. Oduya left to get paid. Shaw wanted to get paid. Do you know for sure Shaw would have signed for less than 3.9? You don't. You don't know what Saad or Oduya were looking for from the Hawks either.

They got Campbell for 2 mil because he really wanted to be here and knew they couldn't pay him much. Money wasn't a deciding factor for him. For the other players listed above it was.

Edit: And lets not dump all the blame on the players. The team was willing to give them that money.

Edit #2: It wasn't that long ago that Campbell's bloated contract contributed to previous cap problems.
- pjm901

All 3 of them were coming off deals that made some of the highest paid players in the league to begin with and They extracted every penny they could get as a FA out of the Team they wanted to retire with. SAAD had made 2.7 mil to that point and shaw about 6 mil and JO maybe 15 mil in there careers. Seabs gets 10 mil next year and T and k 14 mil next year.

What I'm saying is there is a difference between being among the scoring leaders and pulling away from the pack. I don't think it is a coincidence that Kane gets new linemates and then scores 30% more than his career average and about 25% more than the year before.

IMO, Kane and Panarin compliment each other offensively and until Kane can put up another 105+ points (without Panarin) I think he should be thankful to have him on the opposite wing.
- breadbag

And Panarin has done exactly what without Kane in his career?

Kane has had to play with Richards, Handzus, Bolland, Shaw as his centers...and even played center himself. Panarin came in and got to play with arguably the best playmaker in the game and a solid NHL centerman (AA) right off the bat.

Panarin is the one that needs to take a step back and realize the situation he stepped into. If he wants to move to STL and have Jaskin and Rattie giving him all that open ice, enjoy

You need to throw AA in there too, because he helped them a lot.
- pjm901

He certainly played his role and helped those two.

I was just personally amazed by the passing, timing, and fact that Kane/Panarin just seemed to know where each other would be so often. A lot of what they did last year reminded me of Sedin-Sedin in Vancouver. I mean, the two twins in Vancouver have always been unreal at this, but for Kane/Panarin not having played a year together before last season, they were on the same wavelength in a big way.

All 3 of them were coming off deals that made some of the highest paid players in the league to begin with and They extracted every penny they could get as a FA out of the Team they wanted to retire with. SAAD had made 2.7 mil to that point and shaw about 6 mil and JO maybe 15 mil in there careers. Seabs gets 10 mil next year and T and k 14 mil next year.
- kmw4631

They all (Toews, Kane, Seabs)would've received more money had they hit the open market. And dont forget they took less money on their previous contracts.

Lets go a new way. How long will T and K be the 2 highest paid players in the league? We know for sure the 1st 2 years of the deal. My guess is 6/7 of the 8 years.
- kmw4631

Exactly.

I don't think we are going to see another deal over $8.5MM because of the cap situation. See Stamkos and Tampa. GMs wont spend like they used to.

All 3 of them were coming off deals that made some of the highest paid players in the league to begin with and They extracted every penny they could get as a FA out of the Team they wanted to retire with. SAAD had made 2.7 mil to that point and shaw about 6 mil and JO maybe 15 mil in there careers. Seabs gets 10 mil next year and T and k 14 mil next year.
- kmw4631

May as well blame Rocky and the other big-market owners for pushing for (or at best agreeing to) a hard cap at the expense of the competitive balance of their on-ice product.

Plenty of greed to go around.

And Panarin has done exactly what without Kane in his career?

Kane has had to play with Richards, Handzus, Bolland, Shaw as his centers...and even played center himself. Panarin came in and got to play with arguably the best playmaker in the game and a solid NHL centerman (AA) right off the bat.

Panarin is the one that needs to take a step back and realize the situation he stepped into. If he wants to move to STL and have Jaskin and Rattie giving him all that open ice, enjoy
- PatShart

I'm not saying it doesn't go both ways. Panarin IMO was smart to sign with Chicago and he got what he wanted. He raised his value through the roof by playing with Kane/AA, getting a lot of PP minutes and a huge slant in offensive zone starts.

It is like a win-win situation for everyone...Kane, AA, Panarin, the Hawks, and the fans. Last year was a real treat to watch.

I'm not saying it doesn't go both ways. Panarin IMO was smart to sign with Chicago and he got what he wanted. He raised his value through the roof by playing with Kane/AA, getting a lot of PP minutes and a huge slant in offensive zone starts.

It is like a win-win situation for everyone...Kane, AA, Panarin, the Hawks, and the fans. Last year was a real treat to watch.
- breadbag

When that line was on the ice. Other times not so much.