Probably not, but remember what people said about Saad 18 months ago.

BTW, I just heard, the Blues are one team that plans to make a hard run at Panarin next summer if he is not re-inked in Chicago first.
- John Jaeckel

Oh lord please no. If thats the case and the Hawks cant resign him? Move him to the other conference.

My point is this who'll fill Seabrook spot if he's gone, I mean Yandle got a fat contract, were talking about Yandle
- BetweenTheDots

My point is this who'll fill Seabrook spot if he's gone, I mean Yandle got a fat contract, were talking about Yandle
- BetweenTheDots

Yandle is 2 years younger and got 1 year less so his contract ends at 36 not 39. Seabs is better and if his contract ended at 36 I would no problem with it.

Seabs for being so great in that series was -2 compared to HAmmer +5 and keith +3, I said I like Seabs but you cannot pay some top d money from 31-39 and not expect it to cripple you down the road.

I like Seabs put if you have to move his contract if its even possible you do it to keep Panarin who will be his prime his whole contract. Compared to Seabs is already past his prime and his contract has not even started.

Yandle actually went to FA Seabs signed his a year in advance on a team he wanted to finish his career with. Hedmen only got 900 K more then Seabs are you going to tell me in 5 years hedmon will only worth 900k more. he is already worth how much more today?

At this point I will stop talking about it, people are missing the point.

- DarthKane

That 2013 season was something special..

How about top 5 he tied for 6th last year and was the youngest guy in the Top 10 and the only guy in the top 10 that did not play on a playoff team. IE if he can put up 25 on the Columbus team last year (kane had 28, Ovi 29) at 22 I'm pretty sure he can do that every year.
- kmw4631

Just because he did it last year doesn't mean he is a lock to do it every year. It's one thing to say Ovi will be there because he has been for years. Saad needs another year or two in the top 5 before we start saying it is a forgone conclusion that he will lead the league in 5x5 goals the next 5 years. Also age isn't the only thing to consider. His linemates, defensive/goalie struggles and fluky luck all factor in too.

- DarthKane

That first GIF is leadership personified. Seabrook wasn't even wearing an A yet. Money buys you more than stats.

Yandle is 2 years younger and got 1 year less so his contract ends at 36 not 39. Seabs is better and if his contract ended at 36 I would no problem with it.

Seabs for being so great in that series was -2 compared to HAmmer +5 and keith +3, I said I like Seabs but you cannot pay some top d money from 31-39 and not expect it to cripple you down the road.

I like Seabs put if you have to move his contract if its even possible you do it to keep Panarin who will be his prime his whole contract. Compared to Seabs is already past his prime and his contract has not even started.
- kmw4631

Plus minus is not the best of stats to use to compare players. You need to take into consideration who Seabs was playing with also. Keith and Hammer is a much better pairing than Seabs and whoever was next to him.

To be honest, after watching the first 4 goals... the kid's worth more than Tarasenko, easily.
- DMChi2010

For the same money, I'd take Tarasenko over Panarin to be honest. The guy is a better goal scorer and harder to stop physically. Nothing against Panarin, but playing with Kane was an advantage Tarasenko doesn't enjoy and I think if he did he'd be challenging Ovie for goal scoring. Just in my opinion so far, but who knows if Panarin finds a way to take it to another level.

Probably not, but remember what people said about Saad 18 months ago.

BTW, I just heard, the every team with cap space plans to make a hard run at Panarin next summer if he is not re-inked in Chicago first.
- John Jaeckel

Fixed.

For the same money, I'd take Tarasenko over Panarin to be honest. The guy is a better goal scorer and harder to stop physically. Nothing against Panarin, but playing with Kane was an advantage Tarasenko doesn't enjoy and I think if he did he'd be challenging Ovie for goal scoring. Just in my opinion so far, but who knows if Panarin finds a way to take it to another level.
- breadbag

Agreed. Tarasenko is a monster and if they ever get reliable scoring to complement him they are going to be really tough.

Probably not, but remember what people said about Saad 18 months ago.

BTW, I just heard, the Blues are one team that plans to make a hard run at Panarin next summer if he is not re-inked in Chicago first.
- John Jaeckel

Bowman better "pony up" for this kid, they have ZERO replacement for the kind of points he puts up based on what we've seen so far...and losing Saad was a fiasco in itself. If Crawford is gone and Darling has to step up, so be it IMO. Unless they truly want to go into a rebuilding status while we wait 2-3 years for the picks we get for him to acclimate as the "core" continues to age.

If he goes somewhere else, he won't be playing with Kane - who makes everyone around him more productive.
- PatShart

Orrrrrrr........... did Panarin make Kane more productive ??? Lots of thought in that philosophy as well .

No, which is why those types of loophole players are only UFA for the summer they're selecting their team. After that, they're back to normal rules where they sign an ELC with the team of their choice and are an RFA at the end of that.

I think the debate on fairness of this loophole has been discussed at length. There are a lot less fair things in the NHL, like the Hossa point STL mentions.
- L_B_R

Why would they ever get to select a team if their rights should be owned by the one that drafted them? I guess I must have missed that whole debate...

I agree with the Hossa ex-post-facto rule 100%... I still think Stan's going to challenge it once it becomes a problem for him.

Or at least he should.

I am a big Seabrook fan and I don't necessarily mind the contract, yet, of course. I personally think he rebounds this season and plays well as long as he isn't playing lookout for the younger D guys.

However, I think as John stated a while ago that the front office is really going to be careful now when it comes to big contracts. So next year you are probably correct, IMO, that Crawford and Kruger would be moved to make room for Panarin. Unless I'm mistaken, the priority on these three core guys would be
Seabrook > Crawford > Kruger (in terms of importance) also on who would most likely be traded first.

But aside from all of that skepticism of next year... Here's to Vesey and Fortin signing!
- 93Joe

What if Kempny shows he can handle #3 Dman duties? Seabs slides down the can't move list?

What if Kempny shows he can handle #3 Dman duties? Seabs slides down the can't move list?
- Mr Ricochet

That would be nice, but lets not get crazy with the hype train.

What if Kempny shows he can handle #3 Dman duties? Seabs slides down the can't move list?
- Mr Ricochet

I'd prefer to keep Kempny on the 3rd pairing, if nothing more than to help slowly acclimate him to the NA game and because he's an RFA as well next summer, to keep his stats, cost down for that contract (in the case where he adjusts well, which I think he will).

Orrrrrrr........... did Panarin make Kane more productive ??? Lots of thought in that philosophy as well .
- Hawkytalk

Sure Panarin helped, but Kane was having a MVP caliber season the year before when he had Brad Richards and Versteeg as linemates.

Hawks are in a no lose situation with Panarin.

He is an RFA, they have him signed for this year, if he gets offer sheeted the Hawks get a crap ton of picks, if he wants too much money the Hawks get great value in return.

But most importantly.....worry about next year next year. The stagnant cap era has changed the dynamic for many contract negotiations, and will eventually impact them all.
- Return of the Roar

Exactly, he'll be an RFA not a UFA meaning no matter what they won't lose him for nothing if they can't sign him. If he wants enough rubles to take care of the next 297 generations of Panarins do a Saad type deal, hopefully get a bit better return though.

What if Kempny shows he can handle #3 Dman duties? Seabs slides down the can't move list?
- Mr Ricochet

So, Kempny might be a late starter for us this year. He is going to miss camp (or a significant portion) since he is playing for his country like most of the Hawks. I wonder if signing Rozy was also to help earlier in the season until Kempny gets totally up to speed on Q and the defensive system.

Yandle is 2 years younger and got 1 year less so his contract ends at 36 not 39. Seabs is better and if his contract ended at 36 I would no problem with it.

Seabs for being so great in that series was -2 compared to HAmmer +5 and keith +3, I said I like Seabs but you cannot pay some top d money from 31-39 and not expect it to cripple you down the road.

I like Seabs put if you have to move his contract if its even possible you do it to keep Panarin who will be his prime his whole contract. Compared to Seabs is already past his prime and his contract has not even started.

Yandle actually went to FA Seabs signed his a year in advance on a team he wanted to finish his career with. Hedmen only got 900 K more then Seabs are you going to tell me in 5 years hedmon will only worth 900k more. he is already worth how much more today?

At this point I will stop talking about it, people are missing the point.
- kmw4631

I think the point is crystal clear and valid. 19, 88 + 7 all got a MAXED out contract for a team that had already dumped a half dozen All-Stars due to the Salary Cap. I feel as though the nostalgia of the 3 Cups has elevated the Hawks Core to almost Saint-like levels, where questioning their greed over winning is taboo.

Whether it was their agents, parents or the false cap growth projections, those three guys wanted to get paid...regardless of the impact it would have on KEY role players like Saad, Sharp, Oduya and Shaw. They got the big bucks, now carry the kids (or over the hill Vet) on ELC/league minimum bc that is all Stan can afford now to fill out the roster. And again, Stan had to retain them, just unfortunate they chose dollars over team depth.

What if Stan gets Jimmy Vesey? Saucy mitts. Check out his play last night at the Foxboro Sports Center (where Stan supposedly was as well!)
www.thehockeyshow.net
- alty

Here's StanBo's pitch to Vesey, similar to Panarin:

- Opportunity to play with top talent immediately
- Opportunity to put up solid numbers in the first 2 years on ELC
- Opportunity to then capitalize on first contract outside of ELC
- Opportunity to compete for a Cup from Year 1

In Pan's case, his bonuses played a part because he believe he had the best chance to hit them playing with the Hawks - which he did.

In Vesey's case, same deal. He can stay close to home in Boston, he can play with Eichel in Buffalo, but long-term I think Stan has a pretty good pitch on helping a young player make the most of his career, in terms of money and winning.

Probably not, but remember what people said about Saad 18 months ago.

BTW, I just heard, the Blues are one team that plans to make a hard run at Panarin next summer if he is not re-inked in Chicago first.
- John Jaeckel

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Agreed. Tarasenko is a monster and if they ever get reliable scoring to complement him they are going to be really tough.
- pjm901

The Blues lost quite a bit this offseason and will most likely lose Shattenkirk.

They had a good run this year, but some major pieces are gone now.

Your post underscores the push-and-pull between two concepts talked about a lot on these boards: the core and the Cup window. Is the Cup window defined by winning Cups for the current core (i.e. Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson) or for the core however it is comprised? If it is the latter, then the core will start to get younger and should include someone like Panarin which in turn means that an aging core member (or more) may need to be moved to make room cap-wise for the younger core.

Another aspect of this push-and-pull is the perspective that a changing core will eventually lead to a reboot or rebuilt which in turn may lead to the Cup window being closed until the new core is strong enough to get the team back to the ultimate goal. Just thinking out loud, but if the core continues to evolve (i.e. bringing in younger core who are mentored by older core), then the Cup window doesn't necessarily close. It may be tougher to earn a playoff berth and then to advance through the rounds, but the team can still be competitive enough to make a concerted run any given year.

Sometimes I feel we view the core and Cup window as mutually exclusive: without one, we don't have the other. Don't know if it's really that absolute.
- AEL_Fox

The cup window is tabulated with the current core but how often will an elite and aging core team have a Panarin drop into their lap at 24 yrs old? This luxury has to be gotten full value from whether it be signing or trading him for a top 6 or top 2 prospect.

I'd like to see them reboot the core with the 24 yr old, get younger in the core and extend the cup window a tad.

Of course the next, and big, question is which of the existing core CAN be moved for cap room?

I think the point is crystal clear and valid. 19, 88 + 7 all got a MAXED out contract for a team that had already dumped a half dozen All-Stars due to the Salary Cap. I feel as though the nostalgia of the 3 Cups has elevated the Hawks Core to almost Saint-like levels, where questioning their greed over winning is taboo.

Whether it was their agents, parents or the false cap growth projections, those three guys wanted to get paid...regardless of the impact it would have on KEY role players like Saad, Sharp, Oduya and Shaw. They got the big bucks, now carry the kids (or over the hill Vet) on ELC/league minimum bc that is all Stan can afford now to fill out the roster. And again, Stan had to retain them, just unfortunate they chose dollars over team depth.
- EnzoD

Completely "Yes" I agree.