Where are we at cap wise if we offer a deal to Vesey?
- z1990z

. We are fine he would only get $925K we would still have a little over 2 mil or so for a vet as well. I'm thinking either hudler or maybe as a outside shot at Ship coming over in Dec. But those are just guesses.

H

Where are we at cap wise if we offer a deal to Vesey?
- z1990z

He'd be under a rookie contract 925-950 start plus bonuses

H




He'd be under a rookie contract 925-950 start plus bonuses
- Abadseed

If he earned these bonuses they can be deferred to next season if needed.

I never get why unsigned picks get to be UFAs. They should be RFAs, if not forced to sign ELCs...
- busmaster

They are forced to signed ELCs, though. They're only UFA for the short time after they didn't sign with their old team. Vesey, like Kevin Hayes before him, can only sign a 2-year $925k ELC due to his age and then he'll be a RFA when that expires.

What if Stan gets Jimmy Vesey? Saucy mitts. Check out his play last night at the Foxboro Sports Center (where Stan supposedly was as well!)
www.thehockeyshow.net

In re: Artemi Panarin. Just sayin', inking him makes the core younger, which should be a strategic goal. Even at the cost, if necessary, of decoupling an older core member. Panarin is a keeper!

In re: Artemi Panarin. Just sayin', inking him makes the core younger, which should be a strategic goal. Even at the cost, if necessary, of decoupling an older core member. Panarin is a keeper!
- 35Tony0

Your post underscores the push-and-pull between two concepts talked about a lot on these boards: the core and the Cup window. Is the Cup window defined by winning Cups for the current core (i.e. Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson) or for the core however it is comprised? If it is the latter, then the core will start to get younger and should include someone like Panarin which in turn means that an aging core member (or more) may need to be moved to make room cap-wise for the younger core.

Another aspect of this push-and-pull is the perspective that a changing core will eventually lead to a reboot or rebuilt which in turn may lead to the Cup window being closed until the new core is strong enough to get the team back to the ultimate goal. Just thinking out loud, but if the core continues to evolve (i.e. bringing in younger core who are mentored by older core), then the Cup window doesn't necessarily close. It may be tougher to earn a playoff berth and then to advance through the rounds, but the team can still be competitive enough to make a concerted run any given year.

Sometimes I feel we view the core and Cup window as mutually exclusive: without one, we don't have the other. Don't know if it's really that absolute.

My point is starting from last year thru this year and for the next 6 years who is going to be a better player with more value? SAAD at 6 Mil or seabs at 7 mil. SAAD baring injury will probably lead the league in 5 x 5 goals over the next 6 years and Seabs is going to keep slowing down each year. The fact that every team in the league would trade for SAAD at 6 mil per year 22-28 and nobody would want SEABS contract 31-39 for any return other then a bad contract, tells you that SAADS contract is a way better value. Panrin looks to be at a Min 60 PT guy with a high of maybe 80 or 85. When all the money for a guy is in his prime that is when you should slightly overpay not when 1/2 the contract is after 35. Seabs was already slowing down at 29.
- kmw4631

Seabrook is twice as valuable than Saad, without Seabrook we don't win the SC in 2015. Defense defense defense wins championships. Panarin out did Saad last year but it was our defense that let us down 3 rookies on D

Panarin isn't going anywhere, need to stop worrying about that
- vabeachbear

Probably not, but remember what people said about Saad 18 months ago.

BTW, I just heard, the Blues are one team that plans to make a hard run at Panarin next summer if he is not re-inked in Chicago first.

He still has a closer (I think) friend under the Arch.
- StLBravesFan

Yes

Apparently, he turned down a good offer from a "good team" (CBH?), because he wanted to stop moving his young family around the continent.
- pdx2ord

What I heard is Richards contacted the Hawks, Hawks told him to wait until they sorted some things out. And it would have been a league minimum one year deal.

Probably not, but remember what people said about Saad 18 months ago.

BTW, I just heard, the Blues are one team that plans to make a hard run at Panarin next summer if he is not re-inked in Chicago first.
- John Jaeckel

Not surprising given the Tarasenko connection. I doubt Chicago lets Panarin actually hit free agency. If Stan can't re-sign Panarin by June 30, 2017 I expect he'd be dealt like Saad was.

They are forced to signed ELCs, though. They're only UFA for the short time after they didn't sign with their old team. Vesey, like Kevin Hayes before him, can only sign a 2-year $925k ELC due to his age and then he'll be a RFA when that expires.
- L_B_R

They are not forced to sign ELCs with the club that drafted them I thought. Vesey and Hayes never signed deals with the club that drafted them and just by waiting it out a few years while they go to school they get to be UFAs? Seems unfair to the club that drafted them.

I am a big Seabrook fan and I don't necessarily mind the contract, yet, of course. I personally think he rebounds this season and plays well as long as he isn't playing lookout for the younger D guys.

However, I think as John stated a while ago that the front office is really going to be careful now when it comes to big contracts. So next year you are probably correct, IMO, that Crawford and Kruger would be moved to make room for Panarin. Unless I'm mistaken, the priority on these three core guys would be
Seabrook > Crawford > Kruger (in terms of importance) also on who would most likely be traded first.

But aside from all of that skepticism of next year... Here's to Vesey and Fortin signing!
- 93Joe

This is consistent with StanBo putting out feelers for Crow and Krugs, just like he did with Sharp the year before.

Seabrook is twice as valuable than Saad, without Seabrook we don't win the SC in 2015. Defense defense defense wins championships. Panarin out did Saad last year but it was our defense that let us down 3 rookies on D
- BetweenTheDots

And he got paid for it that year on the contract he signed at the time. Yes, Seabs was great that year and was the reason we won. Last year however, live bodies in average sense would have helped us on defense.

Looking forward, KMW has a point... I'll take Saad at 6 over Seabs at 7, especially at that length. Clearly Stan was paying in arrears. Classy, but won;t help us win.

Probably not, but remember what people said about Saad 18 months ago.

BTW, I just heard, the Blues are one team that plans to make a hard run at Panarin next summer if he is not re-inked in Chicago first.
- John Jaeckel

No knock on you JJ but I'll believe it when I see it, they have their hands full with Parayko and after this year will they be happy with Allen?

They are not forced to sign ELCs with the club that drafted them I thought. Vesey and Hayes never signed deals with the club that drafted them and just by waiting it out a few years while they go to school they get to be UFAs? Seems unfair to the club that drafted them.
- busmaster

"Fair" and "NHL" aren't really a cozy couple: witness the ex-post-facto Hossa recapture penalties - or being able to buy the contract of a retired player and use its cap hit to reach the salary floor without putting out any actual cash - or....

this never gets old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL3VHRp0xpA
- Kewl1

To be honest, after watching the first 4 goals... the kid's worth more than Tarasenko, easily.

I don't know if Subban is superior defensively but both teams needed what they got.
I think at the end of the day one thing surfaced the last few years... Suter is better than Weber and most people didn't think so before he left Nasville.
When it comes to dmen the list starts with Doughty and Keith and then the order can be debated but next in line for me aren't Weber or Subban.
- Al

Good points. You kind of forget about Suter, but he's a good Defenseman.

And he got paid for it that year on the contract he signed at the time. Yes, Seabs was great that year and was the reason we won. Last year however, live bodies in average sense would have helped us on defense.

Looking forward, KMW has a point... I'll take Saad at 6 over Seabs at 7, especially at that length. Clearly Stan was paying in arrears. Classy, but won;t help us win.
- busmaster

Then you guys instantly shut the door on the possibility of another Cup. Saad is a good player Seabrook is a great defensema probably why Seabs had rookie duty all year

34 based on something I read is the time defenseman begin to decline performance wise. We'll see how bad Seabs will be this year with Campbell I'm thinking they'll be pretty good

Seabrook is twice as valuable than Saad, without Seabrook we don't win the SC in 2015. Defense defense defense wins championships. Panarin out did Saad last year but it was our defense that let us down 3 rookies on D
- BetweenTheDots

They were both on the SC team. I'm not sure if you watched the playoffs this year but SEABS was not good and we had a huge problem all year scoring 5 X 5. I like Seabs but he is not a #1 (you put Keith and Hammer with just about anyone and that pairing is good, Seabs is only really good with Keith or Hammer) and he is slowing down. You want to pay guys for projected production not past performance.

They are not forced to sign ELCs with the club that drafted them I thought. Vesey and Hayes never signed deals with the club that drafted them and just by waiting it out a few years while they go to school they get to be UFAs? Seems unfair to the club that drafted them.
- busmaster

No, which is why those types of loophole players are only UFA for the summer they're selecting their team. After that, they're back to normal rules where they sign an ELC with the team of their choice and are an RFA at the end of that.

I think the debate on fairness of this loophole has been discussed at length. There are a lot less fair things in the NHL, like the Hossa point STL mentions.

this never gets old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL3VHRp0xpA
- Kewl1

That video is great quality. Whoever put that video together had some excellent equipment and HD footage.

They were both on the SC team. I'm not sure if you watched the playoffs this year but SEABS was not good and we had a huge problem all year scoring 5 X 5. I like Seabs but he is not a #1 (you put Keith and Hammer with just about anyone and that pairing is good, Seabs is only really good with Keith or Hammer) and he is slowing down. You want to pay guys for projected production not past performance.
- kmw4631

Nope I want to pay guys who give me a chance to win a cup, game 7 was Keith who was responsible for the first 2 goals of the game, not willing to use the body and Gusto the game winning goal, if you watched that playoff game you would know that though, Seabs 27 minutes of ice per game in the playoffs but yeah he was awful he's washed up, I think not and like I said we'll see this year

My point is this who'll fill Seabrook spot if he's gone, I mean Yandle got a fat contract, were talking about Yandle