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Forums :: Blog World :: James Tanner: PLUS/MINUS: Defending the Taylor Hall Trade + Jake Gardiner's Elite Edition
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spatso
Ottawa Senators
Location: jensen beach, FL
Joined: 02.19.2007

Jul 17 @ 3:55 PM ET
Steve Yzerman is deserving of a lot of affirmation. But, save a little praise for Julien Brisebois the assistant gm in Tampa. He has done a remarkable job in the drafting and development of talent for the Bolts.
Iggysbff
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Peter Chiarelli is a fking moron, Calgary, AB
Joined: 07.12.2012

Jul 17 @ 3:55 PM ET
Heres a little exercise for you Jimmy.

Pull up the hero comparison of Gardiner with Oscar Klefbom.

Virtually identical with Klefbom being slightly better offensively and Gardiner being slightly better defensively.

Now pull up their vollman bubbles. Gardiner is sheltered in both offensive zone starts and weak quality of competition where as Klefbom had far greater quality of competition and much much higher defensive zone starts.

So if Gardiner is " Elite" then I guess Klefbom must be super duper elite top 5 in the league?
HealthyScratch6
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 09.13.2014

Jul 17 @ 4:09 PM ET
Heres a little exercise for you Jimmy.

Pull up the hero comparison of Gardiner with Oscar Klefbom.

Virtually identical with Klefbom being slightly better offensively and Gardiner being slightly better defensively.

Now pull up their vollman bubbles. Gardiner is sheltered in both offensive zone starts and weak quality of competition where as Klefbom had far greater quality of competition and much much higher defensive zone starts.

So if Gardiner is " Elite" then I guess Klefbom must be super duper elite top 5 in the league?

- Iggysbff


Next Weeks blog

MINUS: People who think drew doughty is better than Oscar klefbom
RangerFan1110
New York Rangers
Location: Orlando, FL
Joined: 01.30.2012

Jul 17 @ 4:10 PM ET
LOL there is no defending this trade. 100% horrible!!!!!
bmoney411
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: "I don't care about being "better" . I care about building a cup contender." -Iggysbff, ON
Joined: 07.03.2009

Jul 17 @ 4:11 PM ET
Yes blacks are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by a cop and 5.2 times more likely to commit murder. The group as a whole has more interactions with police and consequentially will be the victim of police killings more often. There is a problem with police and the use of lethal force but it should be treated as a general problem rather than a racial one. Whenever you see movements like BLM it is always important to ask where is the money coming from and how are these people benefiting from the movement? The movement is designed to increase racial tensions and by the look of thing they are doing an excellent job.
- flamminghead

You know I head another story the other day about some old man who shot at a couple teenagers in their car because he thought they were stealing. Turns out he over heard them say something suspicious,"Did you get anything", as one of them jumped into the car. This was enough confirmation to get a gun and challenge them. Teenagers didn't even know they were being shot at until they saw their flat tire with a bullet hole. There are so many things wrong here but this stuff happens all the time. Its not always cops but the story is pretty much the same. "Oh I thought... so I shot first asked questions later". This is the same mentality a lot of cops in the States have. The problem with your racial argument is a lot of these crimes people are getting shot for are not violent. The other problem is its usually minorities. It's not a coincidence. Majority get the benefit of the doubt where the minorities don't. Trigger happy mentality has got to go. I'd rather someone go to jail wrongfully then realised after questioning then them getting shot. You don't come back from that usually. Trust me there are a lot of racist people still around don't kid yourself. They just hide it better.
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Jul 17 @ 4:15 PM ET
This blog should be a Minus
Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 11.30.2009

Jul 17 @ 4:15 PM ET
Heres a little exercise for you Jimmy.

Pull up the hero comparison of Gardiner with Oscar Klefbom.

Virtually identical with Klefbom being slightly better offensively and Gardiner being slightly better defensively.

Now pull up their vollman bubbles. Gardiner is sheltered in both offensive zone starts and weak quality of competition where as Klefbom had far greater quality of competition and much much higher defensive zone starts.

So if Gardiner is " Elite" then I guess Klefbom must be super duper elite top 5 in the league?

- Iggysbff


All players are equal.
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Jul 17 @ 4:16 PM ET

- Bruiniak


LIES! To do that is Witchcraft! Burn the Witch!!!
RonPielep
Location: "Welcome to HockeyBuzz. Come for the rumors. Stay for the idiots." - Feds91Stammer
Joined: 08.21.2014

Jul 17 @ 4:30 PM ET
You call that a fairytale?

Some might call that a nightmare.

- Iggysbff


flamminghead
Calgary Flames
Location: As good as they are in the off, AB
Joined: 09.02.2009

Jul 17 @ 4:43 PM ET
You know I head another story the other day about some old man who shot at a couple teenagers in their car because he thought they were stealing. Turns out he over heard them say something suspicious,"Did you get anything", as one of them jumped into the car. This was enough confirmation to get a gun and challenge them. Teenagers didn't even know they were being shot at until they saw their flat tire with a bullet hole. There are so many things wrong here but this stuff happens all the time. Its not always cops but the story is pretty much the same. "Oh I thought... so I shot first asked questions later". This is the same mentality a lot of cops in the States have. The problem with your racial argument is a lot of these crimes people are getting shot for are not violent. The other problem is its usually minorities. It's not a coincidence. Majority get the benefit of the doubt where the minorities don't. Trigger happy mentality has got to go. I'd rather someone go to jail wrongfully then realised after questioning then them getting shot. You don't come back from that usually. Trust me there are a lot of racist people still around don't kid yourself. They just hide it better.
- bmoney411
Yeah I about read that. They were playing Pokémon Go.
Ihateallofu
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Meh
Joined: 11.09.2014

Jul 17 @ 4:56 PM ET
Nationalism actually unites us. It's a shame it barely exists here in Canada. Maybe that's why you don't even know your neighbours' name here, meanwhile you are friends with you entire neighbourhood in Europe.The real force behind increasing divisiveness is globalism and destruction of the family unit, religion, community, culture and social fabric.

Take my word for it, countries without nationalism are much more divided than countries with.

- domi_legend




There's literally zero evidence to prove the erosion of religion and a deeper secularism has had negative impact. Anywhere. Ever


As far as the reconfiguration of what's known as the normal 'family unit', the same lack of evidence applies in any rational scenario
Ihateallofu
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Meh
Joined: 11.09.2014

Jul 17 @ 4:59 PM ET
Heres a little exercise for you Jimmy.

Pull up the hero comparison of Gardiner with Oscar Klefbom.

Virtually identical with Klefbom being slightly better offensively and Gardiner being slightly better defensively.

Now pull up their vollman bubbles. Gardiner is sheltered in both offensive zone starts and weak quality of competition where as Klefbom had far greater quality of competition and much much higher defensive zone starts.

So if Gardiner is " Elite" then I guess Klefbom must be super duper elite top 5 in the league?

- Iggysbff
solid post

Imo, the game is far too nuanced and fluid to boil down comparisons to hero charts.
A comparison that states Gardiner as comparable and possibly even better than all world Duncan Keith is evidence of this


K-man25
Calgary Flames
Location: K Town
Joined: 09.02.2014

Jul 17 @ 5:17 PM ET
Tanner you take a lot of abuse on here! Seems the same people keep coming back to let you know that!
Keep up the good work!
Don't agree with the charts as the only factor for deciding whose good and whose not. Always been a fan of the eye test instead, seems more satisfying to me.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Jul 17 @ 5:27 PM ET
Good god you sound bitter lol. Gardiner is underrated I agree. But to say he's a number 1 and elite is a little bit over the top. Are you seriously saying he's on the same level as Hedman, P.K., or Doughty because that's what elite implies.
- bmoney411



Elute defensively, he's no Hedman
Hunkulese
Calgary Flames
Location: QC
Joined: 09.30.2006

Jul 17 @ 5:56 PM ET
Didn't you recently post a blog saying the Hall trade was the worst ever and people trying to defend it were stupid?

It was a bad trade because they didn't get value for Hall, but it's hard to argue that they don't have a better team now that's more likely to be competitive. You often complain about front offices being too old school and making the same moves that don't work over and over again. Shouldn't you be praising Chiarelli for making a ballsy move that makes his team more competitive? At the very least, it's a new mistake.
Baunrules21
Location: Scarborough, ON
Joined: 03.02.2011

Jul 17 @ 6:52 PM ET
Wow dude, they must be selling some good poop in your area and you must be smoking a lot of. There is no way that Gardiner is better than Rielly. Gardiner is a giveaway machine and makes careless plays in his own end. He may have a little better offensive ability at the moment than Rielly but given another season or two and Rielly will be far and away the better defenceman.
jkumpire
Location:
Joined: 03.16.2009

Jul 17 @ 7:05 PM ET



There's literally zero evidence to prove the erosion of religion and a deeper secularism has had negative impact. Anywhere. Ever


As far as the reconfiguration of what's known as the normal 'family unit', the same lack of evidence applies in any rational scenario

- Ihateallofu


Let's see your data to prove those statements.

Here's just one off the top of my head that argues against both: 80% of black children born in the US have no father in the home. What racial group has the highest incidence of crime, failed education, and a dozen other measures of success?

Sorry, you are just flat out wrong,

shack67
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: NS
Joined: 07.05.2015

Jul 17 @ 7:10 PM ET
Tanner you take a lot of abuse on here! Seems the same people keep coming back to let you know that!
Keep up the good work!
Don't agree with the charts as the only factor for deciding whose good and whose not. Always been a fan of the eye test instead, seems more satisfying to me.

- K-man25

If gm or coach uses only the eye test they wouldn't know any more than the fans. And fans don't know anything.
Trevrrrgavo
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: London, ON
Joined: 03.28.2013

Jul 17 @ 8:04 PM ET
I am a guy who likes Jake Gardiner. But if he is that good. A bonifide number one. Why isn't Taylor hall lining up beside Matthews?

Because it's just not true...

- Garnie



That was kind of my point.
Ihateallofu
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Meh
Joined: 11.09.2014

Jul 17 @ 8:29 PM ET
Let's see your data to prove those statements.

Here's just one off the top of my head that argues against both: 80% of black children born in the US have no father in the home. What racial group has the highest incidence of crime, failed education, and a dozen other measures of success?

Sorry, you are just flat out wrong,


- jkumpire

You're confusing racial statistics and Inequality to some strange perception of a normal family family unit as you see it.

What are the statistics of those children's outcomes from financially stable -2 parent homes with single parent homes? Regardless of race..
It's like a difference of less than one percent in substance abuse- college graduation rates etc etc
And it's no different than those who grow up in less fortunate circumstances .
You're ether ill equipped to overcome certain inadequacies. Or your not.
And having a regular mom and dad is a weak explanation as to why

You're confusing some antiquated notion of family with financial stability. Which of course is a product of a system that's deeply skewed against the black community.


You also mentioned BOTH statements. Maybe it was a mistake ? You certainly weren't trying to draw some parallel connection with those who believe in a sky person and community inclusion to community divisiveness with those who don't ?
Unless of course you mean the Unwillingness of those who do fervently Believe in magic with the beliefs of those who don't.
Secularism is ONLY a positive force on humanity. And continues to do so.
There's zero correlation with religion and the statements you've made .
Its actually bizarre that you thought it did
Ihateallofu
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Meh
Joined: 11.09.2014

Jul 17 @ 8:32 PM ET
If gm or coach uses only the eye test they wouldn't know any more than the fans. And fans don't know anything.
- shack67

Speak for yourself bro

Furthermore, if you think all peoples opinions on what they see is
More or less equal...... Yeah-- no. Just no
shack67
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: NS
Joined: 07.05.2015

Jul 17 @ 8:39 PM ET
Speak for yourself bro

Furthermore, if you think all peoples opinions on what they see is
More or less equal...... Yeah-- no. Just no

- Ihateallofu

Fans know nothing. The fact that some think they do is hilarious. A fan has a pedestrian knowledge of the game at best.
Vanillaface
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 08.25.2013

Jul 17 @ 9:15 PM ET
Do you really think McDavid, RNH, Eberle, and Draitsil are better than Kane, Toews, Hossa, and Panarin?
- nikel

Hossa is 37 years old coming off a 33 point season. And you forgot to mention Lucic and Puljujarvi.
systemtool
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Real men always have to poo, ON
Joined: 09.12.2007

Jul 17 @ 9:31 PM ET
Hossa is 37 years old coming off a 33 point season. And you forgot to mention Lucic and Puljujarvi.
- Vanillaface



Rip Yakupov

Man we just got Matthews and I've been jizzing 8 times a day since we won the lottery. I can't imagine how awesome it is 4 times.
Ihateallofu
Edmonton Oilers
Location: Meh
Joined: 11.09.2014

Jul 17 @ 9:37 PM ET
Fans know nothing. The fact that some think they do is hilarious. A fan has a pedestrian knowledge of the game at best.
- shack67

What's funny is your belief that if you happen to be "in the game", you're somehow infallible and know so Much more than someone who isn't "in the game"

There's tons and tons of brain dead people who have been in management positions and fundamentally misunderstood how to build a team and identify talent. The list is endless actually.

Guys like mike milbury basically dealt away enough talent/signed players that probably could've built a dynasty had he known what he was doing and not made such egregiously terrible decisions. . (Chara- luongo, yashin, bertuzzi, dipietro etc etc)
Or gms like tambellini who just stayed the status quo. What laymen couldn't have finished last multiple years Ina row and done nothing but filled the roster with bargain bottom list free agents like kurtia foster and Andy sutton etc ?

There's multiple writers and even regular posters who have a deep understanding of the game. And again, a much deeper understanding than dudes who were and are scouts or gms.
And It's actually the same for any industry.
Don't be so quick to fall for the knowledge of a guy who happened to play the game at some point or be friends wth someone In a position of power and have an inside track to a job
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