Yup, because if any of those guys had a fraction of Jake Giveaway's skills, they would have been better than him.
- Old Pappy

you want to run him out of town for what he isn’t.

his $4M caphit is decent value for what he brings to the table.

I say keep him for what he is.

you want to run him out of town for what he isn’t.

his $4M caphit is decent value for what he brings to the table.

I say keep him for what he is.
- Tumbleweed

JVR too.

you want to run him out of town for what he isn’t.

his $4M caphit is decent value for what he brings to the table.

I say keep him for what he is.
- Tumbleweed

I say move him now while he still has value. I'm hoping to hell that Babcock can do something with him, but he's what? 26 now? Soon he'll be UFA and he'll want 5 plus mill a year. No way in hell he's worth that. So get him out while some other GM might be fooled.

you want to run him out of town for what he isn’t.

his $4M caphit is decent value for what he brings to the table.

I say keep him for what he is.
- Tumbleweed

I don't hate Gardiner like some but I can see the guys point.

When you really think about it, what does he accomplish on the ice?

He 'looks' good but I don't ever really remember thinking he did something awesome...mostly it's a lot of "ah (frank)" moments of he screwed up or almost did something good .

Is he a stats darling? Because he just doesn't do it for me either.

I say move him now while he still has value. I'm hoping to hell that Babcock can do something with him, but he's what? 26 now? Soon he'll be UFA and he'll want 5 plus mill a year. No way in hell he's worth that. So get him out while some other GM might be fooled.
- Old Pappy

He's a UFA in 2019

you want to run him out of town for what he isn’t.

his $4M caphit is decent value for what he brings to the table.

I say keep him for what he is.
- Tumbleweed

The other thing is you say to keep him for what he is. But what is he? He can't defend, had no physical presence. He doesn't kill penalties. As for an offensive d- man, he doesn't score enough, nor can you consider him a playmaker or a PP QB. His possession stats are a farce because he holds on to the puck too much. He takes his wingers out of the play all the time because they can't figure out what he's going to do, so they end up stalling at the blue line waiting for him to make up his mind.. and don't get me started on his giveaways.

I don't hate Gardiner like some but I can see the guys point.

When you really think about it, what does he accomplish on the ice?

He 'looks' good but I don't ever really remember thinking he did something awesome...mostly it's a lot of "ah (frank)" moments of he screwed up or almost did something good .

Is he a stats darling? Because he just doesn't do it for me either.
- underhill14

Thank you

JVR too.
- the_eye

Difference to me (though a ways off) is gardiner shouldn’t be due for a big raise on his next deal.

Jvr is.

Though I’d be fine with seeing how jvr does this year with some new faces on the team.

JVR too.
- the_eye

If you take out a writing pad and honestly look at the the NHL's top Left wingers, JVR can relatively objectively fit in the top 12 to 14 somewhere. That means there are at least 16 teams in the NHL that do not have a LW as good as JVR. Sign him - he's only 29 and he's only played with inferior centers to date. He might just fit in really nicely given the opportunity to play with a talented center. Extend him for 5 years.

I don't hate Gardiner like some but I can see the guys point.

When you really think about it, what does he accomplish on the ice?

He 'looks' good but I don't ever really remember thinking he did something awesome...mostly it's a lot of "ah (frank)" moments of he screwed up or almost did something good .

Is he a stats darling? Because he just doesn't do it for me either.
- underhill14

One of my fave plays he seems to always be doing is when someone flips the puck in the air over his head, and instead of trying to glove it, he tries to high stick it out of the air. Does he not know the rules, that if he actually makes contact, he can't play the puck nor can any of his team mates? What is that? Does anyone ever see the guy interviewed? No? Why? Because he's a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic.

If you take out a writing pad and honestly look at the the NHL's top Left wingers, JVR can relatively objectively fit in the top 12 to 14 somewhere. That means there are at least 16 teams in the NHL that do not have a LW as good as JVR. Sign him - he's only 29 and he's only played with inferior centers to date. He might just fit in really nicely given the opportunity to play with a talented center. Extend him for 5 years.
- winsix

I don't like him.

All the tools, no heart.

He refuses to use his size.

He never drives the net.

That stupid twirly move has worked once in 47,983,219 tries, yet he still does it.

And I still think we should re-sign him.

This is what Leafs fans have trouble grasping: it's hard to get talent. If the guy is an 8 or a 9, unless everyone else on your team is better than him, you need to keep him.

Difference to me (though a ways off) is gardiner shouldn’t be due for a big raise on his next deal.

Jvr is.

Though I’d be fine with seeing how jvr does this year with some new faces on the team.
- Tumbleweed

Yup. I really like JvR. He looked much more engaged last year, and played really well until the injury.

I do however contend that a top line D is typically more important to team success than a top line winger. I wouldn't be actively shopping him, but if there's a deal to be had that gets that 1RD then it should be considered.

I don't like him.

All the tools, no heart.

He refuses to use his size.

He never drives the net.

That stupid twirly move has worked once in 47,983,219 tries, yet he still does it.

And I still think we should re-sign him.

This is what Leafs fans have trouble grasping: it's hard to get talent. If the guy is an 8 or a 9, unless everyone else on your team is better than him, you need to keep him.
- Atomic Wedgie

We can get heart and crashing the net in UFAs. Dime a dozen.

I'm with you about your rant before about Leafs fans always valuing heart and crashing the net over skill

Dustin Leed Retweeted
Flyers Nerd ‏@FlyersNerd 4h4 hours ago

On the NHL Network Radio today @wyshynski (PuckDaddy) said the Flyers, Bruins, and Sabres are the likely teams to land Jimmy Vesey

@wyshynski also said the Flyers are low key very interested in signing him come August 15

He's a UFA in 2019
- walshyleafsfan

Dustin Leed Retweeted
Flyers Nerd ‏@FlyersNerd 4h4 hours ago

On the NHL Network Radio today @wyshynski (PuckDaddy) said the Flyers, Bruins, and Sabres are the likely teams to land Jimmy Vesey

@wyshynski also said the Flyers are low key very interested in signing him come August 15
- rinaldo

Good you can have him.

Dustin Leed Retweeted
Flyers Nerd ‏@FlyersNerd 4h4 hours ago

On the NHL Network Radio today @wyshynski (PuckDaddy) said the Flyers, Bruins, and Sabres are the likely teams to land Jimmy Vesey

@wyshynski also said the Flyers are low key very interested in signing him come August 15
- rinaldo

I would imagine that 30 teams want to sign him.

Rules dictate he gets an ELC.

What's the downside?

You sign him. If he sucks, bury him.

Good you can have him.
- nbboy

i personally hope he is a major flop wherever he ends up.

I don't like him.

All the tools, no heart.

He refuses to use his size.

He never drives the net.

That stupid twirly move has worked once in 47,983,219 tries, yet he still does it.

And I still think we should re-sign him.

This is what Leafs fans have trouble grasping: it's hard to get talent. If the guy is an 8 or a 9, unless everyone else on your team is better than him, you need to keep him.
- Atomic Wedgie

He has played soft for a big man - Babcock might be able to squeeze a bit more out of him. Many years ago there was a player on the Black Hawks that was big and was thought of as soft - his name was Phil Esposito. After trading him to the Bruins
he scored 453 goals in the next 8 years. That's an average of over 56 goals a year for 8 years - not bad for a soft big man.

Yup. I really like JvR. He looked much more engaged last year, and played really well until the injury.

I do however contend that a top line D is typically more important to team success than a top line winger. I wouldn't be actively shopping him, but if there's a deal to be had that gets that 1RD then it should be considered.
- lumlums

I agree he looked better last year but if he try's to flip the puck between his legs into the goalies chest pretector 1 more time, I'm gonna butt end him.

I don't like him.

All the tools, no heart.

He refuses to use his size.

He never drives the net.

That stupid twirly move has worked once in 47,983,219 tries, yet he still does it.

And I still think we should re-sign him.

This is what Leafs fans have trouble grasping: it's hard to get talent. If the guy is an 8 or a 9, unless everyone else on your team is better than him, you need to keep him.
- Atomic Wedgie

I think the best time to trade a player is the year before they get too expensive for what they do.

But I’m not all that interested in a jvr for picks/prospects deal.

If they move him, I would hope it’s for an equal value dman.

He has played soft for a big man - Babcock might be able to squeeze a bit more out of him. Many years ago there was a player on the Black Hawks that was big and was thought of as soft - his name was Phil Esposito. After trading him to the Bruins
he scored 453 goals in the next 8 years. That's an average of over 56 goals a year for 8 years - not bad for a soft big man.
- winsix

True, but he scored all of his goals on Bruce Gamble!

Wedgie and Stee once went to a Leaf game almost 2 years ago...

It was like Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage teaming up as the Mega-Powers

He has played soft for a big man - Babcock might be able to squeeze a bit more out of him. Many years ago there was a player on the Black Hawks that was big and was thought of as soft - his name was Phil Esposito. After trading him to the Bruins
he scored 453 goals in the next 8 years. That's an average of over 56 goals a year for 8 years - not bad for a soft big man.
- winsix

He played 40 minutes a night

Yup, because if any of those guys had a fraction of Jake Giveaway's skills, they would have been better than him.
- Old Pappy

We get it, you don't like him. TSN rated all the defense men in the NHL - google it if you wish - he is at number 50. If you only include 6 d-men per team with 30 teams - do the math, he in the top 28% - stats determine these ratings, not emotions.