OK, let's try again. The Hip's farewell tour is coming to town, and you missed out on getting a $100 ticket. You have to buy one off the web to catch the show you really want to see, costs you $200. Do you do it? An overpay for something that you feel will be valuable to you, it's not that crazy of a concept.

Like everyone else on the planet, I know that the Hall trade was not fair value, but I'll give Larsson some time to see what he can bring in Edmonton before I harshly over-criticize the deal.
- Beergu

I suspect Edmonton is a better team for it because there are two ends of the ice that you need to be competent in. While Taylor Hall might not have been the problem in his own end, the team clearly had problems in this area.

So, even a "poor value" trade can leave Edmonton ahead.

I suspect a lot of the outcry from Edmonton fans is the knowledge that everyone else will see the poor value trade and they are embarrassed by the apparent continuing incompetence of their team's management. As a Leafs fan, I know all about this. A more holistic look might indicate that the trade actually improves the team as whole.

If someone owns a 2 door Porsche and needs/wants to get rid of it for example, because if an expanding family or whatever, do they go to a dealership and swap it straight up for the minivan because that is what is what they need? This feels like the sports equivalent of doing that.
- wilkobecks

Well I have owned a Porsche and it did not get my family from point A to point B it did get me there and when it needed to be fixed it cost a lot of money. I bought a van and it got all of us from point A to point B very comfortably and was cheaper to repair. I sold the Porsche because it did not work for me anymore. The value is in the what is best for you or the team.

It's Larsson not Larsen.

I assume that as a Leaf fan you only watch the Leafs. Larsson is exactly what the Oilers need. If you don't think this is a good trade, you probably haven't seen him play very often.
- Bruiniak

Cam Neely for Barry Pederson

I can't say they went wrong with McPhee. It's great to continue to push for new faces and fresh ideas in the league. Those are good to have and I fully support it if McPhee hires one of those guys to be his assistant.

But, this is an expansion team that is putting everything together. Having someone with GM experience who can make that process go smoothly will be a nice asset for the Las Vegas team. Minus one bad trade, it's not like he didn't do a good job in Washington. And for the Ovechkin stuff....that's not going to be a great team and will be in the lotto zone for a while. He may not get Ovechkin, but he should get some great prospects to build around.

I tend to agree Subban for Weber wasn't a brilliant move and seems really weird for Montreal. They don't really get worse in the short term, but in the long term it's tough to justify.

Hall for Larsson is bad. But, I think no matter how bad it is....the Oilers had to make a bad trade. They can't keep sitting on these forwards and refusing to make trades because teams know they have them cornered.

Well I have owned a Porsche and it did not get my family from point A to point B it did get me there and when it needed to be fixed it cost a lot of money. I bought a van and it got all of us from point A to point B very comfortably and was cheaper to repair. I sold the Porsche because it did not work for me anymore. The value is in the what is best for you or the team.
- Sn1362

I'm kinda jealous. The best I could do was a Mustang.

I suspect Edmonton is a better team for it because there are two ends of the ice that you need to be competent in. While Taylor Hall might not have been the problem in his own end, the team clearly had problems in this area.

So, even a "poor value" trade can leave Edmonton ahead.

I suspect a lot of the outcry from Edmonton fans is the knowledge that everyone else will see the poor value trade and they are embarrassed by the apparent continuing incompetence of their team's management. As a Leafs fan, I know all about this. A more holistic look might indicate that the trade actually improves the team as whole.
- Aetherial

I just hope that Klefbom can get past the foot problems. Him and Larsson together should be a fantastic pair for the Oil this season (and many more).

yeah, that must be it.

oh and by the way, attempting to discredit someone's differing opinion by likening it to a ridiculously out-of-scope analogy is more "trolling" than anything I have typed here.
- Aetherial

Reminds me of a post from this thread about "talking at each other" and not "to each other"

Want to bet they can't do it this year either (replace Hall with Larsson).

Do you not agree that Edmonton was flawed?

Sometimes the absolute value of something, however you care to measure it, is not the point. Sometimes you have to overpay for what you need. If Dmen good enough to make a significant improvement to your team were readily available, they would not cost Taylor Hall. They aren't.

Do you think there were better defensive, right-handed Dmen out there available in a trade for Taylor Hall. Do you believe Chiarelli didn't pursue the dmen he was interested in?
- Aetherial

Edmonton was hands down, without question the best team in the NHL last year. if you disagree with that, you're stupid and you don't understand anything about hockey, luck and relative P/60

What have they done that makes you think they're interested in information provided by a guy hired to crunch the numbers?

You, and the people who reference Weber on Team Canada are all committing the logical fallacy of Appealing to the Experts.
- James_Tanner

Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 3 hil y a 3 heures Voir la traduction
Habs are in the process of determining who they'll bolster analytics department with.

Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 3 hil y a 3 heures Voir la traduction
Montreal Canadiens senior management reached out to clarify they are very committed to analytics. They will be bolstering their department

Eric Engels ‏@EricEngels 21 hil y a 21 heures Voir la traduction
Montreal Canadiens clarify that Matt Pfeffer's 1-year contract was not renewed + that they will be pursuing other options re:analytics hires

About Weber, last time I checked, he was part of Team Canada's roster...not sure what fallacy you're talking about. He's part of the team. There's no denying that part. He's actually good enough to be on that team.

As for the experts, are you talking about Berkshire? The same experts that keeps on hammering that Eller's adv. stats. are good enough for him to be a top line player?

Please elaborate.

I seem to recall that "The Best Team Ever" could only score 2 goals and Price had to limit the opposition to 1 goal against. Remember the 2-1 Latvia game? Probably not as you seem to pick and choose what you do and do not like. Just another butt-hurt Bruins fan hating on the Habs. How about we wait and see what pans out before you prophetically tell us - please don't spoil the ending of the 2016-17 season for us all. Go worry about your own poopty D and the 6 year deal for a old centre you didn't need.



Let me guess....you LOVED Subban all along too?? Like everyone else all of a sudden.....
- Snots33_77

He act's as if Seguin for Eriksson was forgotten. I tend to ignore Bruins fans.

If a trade makes you a better team and gives you a better chance to make the playoffs, I am not sure it can be considered the worst 1 for 1 trade of all time. I will admit there definitely isn't equal value in the trade.

Yes or No question, if Hall was the only player that could get you a RHD of Larsson's caliber and you either make the trade or go into next year with the same team do you make the trade?
- rajottej

Tanner, not sure if you missed the question but I would be curious to know what your answer would be.

I fully suspect Garth and Tanner to be the same person.

Or very, very related.
- Scabeh

No way tanner's Blogs are actually fun to read, Garth's you can tell an old man is writing them.

What have they done that makes you think they're interested in information provided by a guy hired to crunch the numbers?

You, and the people who reference Weber on Team Canada are all committing the logical fallacy of Appealing to the Experts.
- James_Tanner

Here's where I can't follow your argument (this time), You call it an error in judgement to just accept the opinion of the experts. That could hold water, IF we as fans were privy to the same information that said experts have.
I need you to hear me out on this one, THERE IS MORE TO A TEAM, A PLAYER, AN ORGANIZATION THAN THE RAW TALENT LEVEL OF A PLAYER. Therefore, there are many criteria that make up the equation of whether or not a certain player is the best one for your team going forward.
Perhaps the Montreal brass have been hearing for months and months from multiple team members that they are tired of Subban's personality being bigger than the team. There have been reports to that effect. Maybe they have plans for their roster that call for a more defensive minded, less risky back end unit.
Here's the thing - WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WE AREN'T IN THE ROOM.

Also, while I agree Edmonton certainly should have gotten more than one player in return for Hall, I still think they are better off for having addressed their horrible D situation.
And, Gomez for McDonaugh was worse.

He act's as if Seguin for Eriksson was forgotten. I tend to ignore Bruins fans.
- Mr.FunFacts

When the Bruins traded for Eriksson, he was widely known as one of the most consistant wingers in the game. He was coming off there straight 70 pts seasons with not a great Stars team. The Bruins were in a win now mode and Seguin had been a complete jackass here. Best trade looking back? No but hindsight is 20/20. Some trades workout, some don't. Some are destined to fail. The Subban trade is an exemple of à trade that will work for one team and be a horrible failure for the other.

Here's where I can't follow your argument (this time), You call it an error in judgement to just accept the opinion of the experts. That could hold water, IF we as fans were privy to the same information that said experts have.
I need you to hear me out on this one, THERE IS MORE TO A TEAM, A PLAYER, AN ORGANIZATION THAN THE RAW TALENT LEVEL OF A PLAYER. Therefore, there are many criteria that make up the equation of whether or not a certain player is the best one for your team going forward.
Perhaps the Montreal brass have been hearing for months and months from multiple team members that they are tired of Subban's personality being bigger than the team. There have been reports to that effect. Maybe they have plans for their roster that call for a more defensive minded, less risky back end unit.
Here's the thing - WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WE AREN'T IN THE ROOM.

Also, while I agree Edmonton certainly should have gotten more than one player in return for Hall, I still think they are better off for having addressed their horrible D situation.
And, Gomez for McDonaugh was worse.
- Tonybere

He act's as if Seguin for Eriksson was forgotten. I tend to ignore Bruins fans.
- Mr.FunFacts

that trade worked out really well for Boston. they'd never have been able to sign Backes without trading Seguin.

You wouldn't. However, the point is that Team Canada could be wrong. Since they need to get horribly unlucky to even have a chance to lose they have no incentive to question their decisions or the way they've always done things.
- James_Tanner

I appreciate your "devils advocate" approach but the fact is they could also be right. Bottom line, the best Canadian players at this time are on the National Team. The roster is outstanding. If I was a betting man though, playing under Poise, playing alongside Roman Josi for a few seasons will get him on the roster next time around.

When the Bruins traded for Eriksson, he was widely known as one of the most consistant wingers in the game. He was coming off there straight 70 pts seasons with not a great Stars team. The Bruins were in a win now mode and Seguin had been a complete jackass here. Best trade looking back? No but hindsight is 20/20. Some trades workout, some don't. Some are destined to fail. The Subban trade is an exemple of à trade that will work for one team and be a horrible failure for the other.
- Bruiniak

it was a without-question complete (frank)ing catastrophe and set the Bruins back a decade. they have been (frank)ing terrible ever since, and they're still terrible.

PK trade may turn out as bad or worse but until it does we're going to laugh our balls off at you.

Here's where I can't follow your argument (this time), You call it an error in judgement to just accept the opinion of the experts. That could hold water, IF we as fans were privy to the same information that said experts have.
I need you to hear me out on this one, THERE IS MORE TO A TEAM, A PLAYER, AN ORGANIZATION THAN THE RAW TALENT LEVEL OF A PLAYER. Therefore, there are many criteria that make up the equation of whether or not a certain player is the best one for your team going forward.
Perhaps the Montreal brass have been hearing for months and months from multiple team members that they are tired of Subban's personality being bigger than the team. There have been reports to that effect. Maybe they have plans for their roster that call for a more defensive minded, less risky back end unit.
Here's the thing - WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE WE AREN'T IN THE ROOM.

Also, while I agree Edmonton certainly should have gotten more than one player in return for Hall, I still think they are better off for having addressed their horrible D situation.
And, Gomez for McDonaugh was worse.
- Tonybere

Also, I thought I read somewhere at the time that Weber's contract was front-end loaded and Nashville has already paid about 2/3's of it. It that true?

When the Bruins traded for Eriksson, he was widely known as one of the most consistant wingers in the game. He was coming off there straight 70 pts seasons with not a great Stars team. The Bruins were in a win now mode and Seguin had been a complete jackass here. Best trade looking back? No but hindsight is 20/20. Some trades workout, some don't. Some are destined to fail. The Subban trade is an exemple of à trade that will work for one team and be a horrible failure for the other.
- Bruiniak

Lol are you honestly justifying Seguin for Eriksson. Subban for Weber is no where close to as bad as a deal. How old was Seguin when your team traded him. is Eriksson even part of your team. So in all you traded Seguin for poop.

Also, I thought I read somewhere at the time that Weber's contract was front-end loaded and Nashville has already paid about 2/3's of it. It that true?
- Tonybere

Yes, 100% its front loaded. Not sure about the 2/3 having been paid out though...

that trade worked out really well for Boston. they'd never have been able to sign Backes without trading Seguin.
- DoubleDown

Indeed I love how they keep missing the playoffs with a full healthy roster. Oh i forgot wheres Hamilton. Nvm lets not got me started.

it was a without-question complete (frank)ing catastrophe and set the Bruins back a decade. they have been (frank)ing terrible ever since, and they're still terrible.

PK trade may turn out as bad or worse but until it does we're going to laugh our balls off at you.
- DoubleDown

The Bruins are going to fight with the Bolts for top spot in the Atlantic. No other team out east has better depth at center than we do. It did not set us back a decade.

The PK trade was like trading your entire franchise away. The Habs will be beyond terrible without him. One of only three teams in the league that does not have a superstar.

Yes, 100% its front loaded. Not sure about the 2/3 having been paid out though...
- The Rocket

The day Weber retires, it counts against the Preds Cap.

Great for the Habs.

The Bruins are going to fight with the Bolts for top spot in the Atlantic. No other team out east has better depth at center than we do. It did not set us back a decade.

The PK trade was like trading your entire franchise away. The Habs will be beyond terrible without him. One of only three teams in the league that does not have a superstar.
- Bruiniak