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Forums :: Blog World :: Ed Stein: Hotstove Rebuttal
Author Message
quackup
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Joined: 09.29.2014

Jul 14 @ 1:44 PM ET
I'd complain ... But that's the nicest thing said about me in years - thank you

- dozerD10

Aetherial
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Has anyone discussed the standings today?
Joined: 06.30.2006

Jul 14 @ 1:46 PM ET
My sources are saying the Ducks and the Leafs are making a trade and it is NOT Lindhom for JVR.
dozerD10
Anaheim Ducks
Location: long beach, CA
Joined: 01.29.2014

Jul 14 @ 1:50 PM ET
My sources are saying the Ducks and the Leafs are making a trade and it is NOT Lindhom for JVR.
- Aetherial


Sweet..... if true - would love JVR in orange & black ... Just not for 47 -
KINGS67
Season Ticket Holder
Los Angeles Kings
Location: Rolling Hills Estates, CA
Joined: 01.29.2010

Jul 14 @ 2:25 PM ET
NYR, LAK, STL
- Ed Stein

Kings filled much needed positions D and WINGERS. Ducks haven't accomplished getting their needs. Nice try though.
quackup
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Joined: 09.29.2014

Jul 14 @ 2:57 PM ET
Kings filled much needed positions D and WINGERS. Ducks haven't accomplished getting their needs. Nice try though.
- KINGS67


Oh Please. You have signed nobody while losing Lucic. You have zero cap space, horrible contracts on the books that nobody wants (Brown, Gaborik), and in order to get somebody worthwhile, you would need to move an integral part of your lineup. That's reality. Not saying you don't have a competitive team. Didn't say that. But you can't actually think you addressed your team needs with the signings you made. They were strictly budget deals.

I admit the Ducks haven't done anything significant. Again, I'll admit that, but Rakell and Lindholm will be signed. Ritchie will probably join the big club. And the Ducks are loaded at D, which suggests they can move a SIGNIFCANT player without really hurting the team and get a SIGNIFICANT player in return. The nice thing is there's no urgency here. We can make the move at the deadline if we desire.

Lucas Neilson
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Atlantic Division Blogger, ON
Joined: 06.26.2015

Jul 14 @ 3:05 PM ET
Oh Please. You have signed nobody while losing Lucic. You have zero cap space, horrible contracts on the books that nobody wants (Brown, Gaborik), and in order to get somebody worthwhile, you would need to move an integral part of your lineup. That's reality. Not saying you don't have a competitive team. Didn't say that. But you can't actually think you addressed your team needs with the signings you made. They were strictly budget deals.

I admit the Ducks haven't done anything significant. Again, I'll admit that, but Rakell and Lindholm will be signed. Ritchie will probably join the big club. And the Ducks are loaded at D, which suggests they can move a SIGNIFCANT player without really hurting the team and get a SIGNIFICANT player in return. The nice thing is there's no urgency here. We can make the move at the deadline if we desire.

- quackup

to add to that I think you see Shea Theodore become a full timer on the D end.

IGotTheMemo
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Orange County
Joined: 04.29.2016

Jul 14 @ 3:17 PM ET
Great Read Ed.

Sometimes in life, the best course of action is to do nothing. Remember post 2007 cup with Selanne and Niedermayer on the fence, Brian Burke went out and signed Todd Burtuzzi andMatthieu Schneider. Those deals handcuffed Anaheim, and ultimately loss this team a top tier center.

There is 9.1-10m in cap space depending on how Nate Thompson's LTIR restitution pans out. That money will be used to resign Rakell and Lindholm. Brain surgery.

OK, right now there are 11 defensemen by my count: Bieksa, Fowler, Vatanen, Lindholm, Despres, Manson, Stoner, Theodore, Holzer, Guenin, Schultz. One may be traded for a LW, but also I think Bob might be trying to circumvent a buyout by dealing Stoner to a team that catches the injury bug.

I think Bob has already had a sit down with Kevin Bieksa about his NMC, the expansion draft, and Anaheim's future. It's only a problem"if." Mr. Bieksa's a good guy and I think he'll wave it, while also playing the 2017-2018 season in a Ducks sweater.

Pinning the worst off season on Anaheim shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us. For whatever reason, people love to pidgeonhole this franchise. Nevertheless, with only very high draft picks of #11, #5 and #10 the past decade; this team continues to thrive. This management team has been so proactive. I trust them over some snooty blogger.
quackup
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Joined: 09.29.2014

Jul 14 @ 4:39 PM ET
Great Read Ed.

Sometimes in life, the best course of action is to do nothing. Remember post 2007 cup with Selanne and Niedermayer on the fence, Brian Burke went out and signed Todd Burtuzzi andMatthieu Schneider. Those deals handcuffed Anaheim, and ultimately loss this team a top tier center.

There is 9.1-10m in cap space depending on how Nate Thompson's LTIR restitution pans out. That money will be used to resign Rakell and Lindholm. Brain surgery.

OK, right now there are 11 defensemen by my count: Bieksa, Fowler, Vatanen, Lindholm, Despres, Manson, Stoner, Theodore, Holzer, Guenin, Schultz. One may be traded for a LW, but also I think Bob might be trying to circumvent a buyout by dealing Stoner to a team that catches the injury bug.

I think Bob has already had a sit down with Kevin Bieksa about his NMC, the expansion draft, and Anaheim's future. It's only a problem"if." Mr. Bieksa's a good guy and I think he'll wave it, while also playing the 2017-2018 season in a Ducks sweater.

Pinning the worst off season on Anaheim shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us. For whatever reason, people love to pidgeonhole this franchise. Nevertheless, with only very high draft picks of #11, #5 and #10 the past decade; this team continues to thrive. This management team has been so proactive. I trust them over some snooty blogger.

- IGotTheMemo


The two highlighted players will begin the season with the Gulls. The others are on the big club. Technically Theodore is with the Gulls, but I agree, I think he'll be with the big club.
Orange_me_Black
Season Ticket Holder
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Seattle (formally CA), WA
Joined: 07.16.2015

Jul 14 @ 6:03 PM ET
Honestly even if Bieksa agrees to waive to go into expansion draft. One of the thing Murray would have to say to him is they probably wont even select you in it.
Ed Stein
Anaheim Ducks
Location: McKinney, TX
Joined: 10.14.2007

Jul 14 @ 6:10 PM ET
In what way is it contradictory?

You (and plenty of other Boudreau detractors) are being results-oriented, not process-oriented. You go through a process to give your team the best chance to win. Sometimes luck goes your way and sometimes it doesn't.

For reference, the lowest PDO in the league this past season was 98.3. The Ducks' playoff PDO in close-out games under Boudreau is way, way lower. There is no way for Boudreau to out-coach that kind of luck and player performance, and to say "here's what his playoff record is and that's what matters" is turning a blind eye to the math that you're pretty darn good at.

- DonzoBean


A 1-8 record can be chalked up to puck luck?

Yes, results count and no, I'm not a Boudreau detractor. Every Duck fan wants a cup and none of them care if their PDO is the lowest in the league. Its irrelevant if the team doesn't win. But I'll ask the masses.

Duck fans how many of you would swap the lowest PDO in the league over the course of last season, for a Stanley Cup?

To quote Vin Scully: "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination."

The statistics don't support your argument. 1-8 in game 7s doesn't cut it at this level, especially for a team that should contend for a championship.
KINGS67
Season Ticket Holder
Los Angeles Kings
Location: Rolling Hills Estates, CA
Joined: 01.29.2010

Jul 14 @ 6:16 PM ET
Oh Please. You have signed nobody while losing Lucic. You have zero cap space, horrible contracts on the books that nobody wants (Brown, Gaborik), and in order to get somebody worthwhile, you would need to move an integral part of your lineup. That's reality. Not saying you don't have a competitive team. Didn't say that. But you can't actually think you addressed your team needs with the signings you made. They were strictly budget deals.

I admit the Ducks haven't done anything significant. Again, I'll admit that, but Rakell and Lindholm will be signed. Ritchie will probably join the big club. And the Ducks are loaded at D, which suggests they can move a SIGNIFCANT player without really hurting the team and get a SIGNIFICANT player in return. The nice thing is there's no urgency here. We can make the move at the deadline if we desire.

- quackup

Lol
The team need was D they got that. Good players or not it was still addressed. They needed goalies they addressed that as well to fill some voids. They needed wingers to fill out the wings. Ducks have a bunch of ?s with zero needs filled. Brown or gaborik is gone in expansion
Woodysdemise
Los Angeles Kings
Location: CA
Joined: 02.13.2015

Jul 14 @ 6:51 PM ET
It's not about fans being ignorant of Anaheim's internal budget (I'm pretty sure that's common knowledge by now). The reality is that you don't get bonus points for doing well within an owner-imposed framework when there are other teams that don't have those same constraints. So yes, you could say that the deal for Andersen was good given the parameters the Ducks had to deal with, but that doesn't mean it makes the Ducks a better team. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Gibson become a bonafide #1 this year.

I won't rehash the Boudreau/Carlyle thing, except to say that winning a Cup when your top two defenders are Pronger and Niedermeyer is not the hallmark of a great coach.

- DonzoBean

All perfectly valid and objective points. Every single one of them. The ducks did indeed make a solid deal considering their circumstances. But as you said, you aren't awarded a special golden star when dealing from an already handicapped position in a professional sports landscape. Ask the vast majority of MLB teams. I personally think what Anaheim got for Andersen was more than sufficient. I'd be more concerned with what they've done since then. Virtually none of the holes they had have been adequately addressed. Same exact situation with the Kings. Both teams have failed quite miserably in that regard thus far. And yes, also concur on the rather obvious point of Caryle having 3 hall of famers to work with in Selanne, Pronger and Niedermayer. I'd venture a guess and say virtually any coach in the league couldn't have found a way to not win the cup that year with those players still in their prime. Caryle is not a better replacement than Boudreau. Just ask Toronto. Or perhaps Anaheim fans from the last 6 months of Caryle's last tenure?
IGotTheMemo
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Orange County
Joined: 04.29.2016

Jul 14 @ 6:55 PM ET
A 1-8 record can be chalked up to puck luck?

Yes, results count and no, I'm not a Boudreau detractor. Every Duck fan wants a cup and none of them care if their PDO is the lowest in the league. Its irrelevant if the team doesn't win. But I'll ask the masses.

Duck fans how many of you would swap the lowest PDO in the league over the course of last season, for a Stanley Cup?

To quote Vin Scully: "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination."

The statistics don't support your argument. 1-8 in game 7s doesn't cut it at this level, especially for a team that should contend for a championship.

- Ed Stein


I watched the exact same melt down against Nashville, as I did against Chicago, Los Angeles and Detroit. Moreover, game 6 and 7 against Nashville was a mirror image of the scoring woes from the very beginning of the season. A struggling transition game, being outnumbered in every puck battle and not burying their chances. Not just 4 times, but 8 times if you count game 6 for each of those series. Something happens with Bruce at the helm.

How is a team supposed to gain traction when they take like 12 penalties in games 1 and 2? Also, I don't know what Ryan Garbutt said to earn that 2 minute Unsportsmanlike, but that sums it all up. This team gets frustrated then implodes. The way I see it, Bruce exasperated the entire thing gabbing about X, Y, and Z.

I feel all those 8 of those losses was the result of poor bench management. Some of which is bad habits that carried over from the regular season. Some accountability, a deep breathe and being an example in every action, because the reaction is what has killed this team for the past 3 years without question in my book! Bruce is very reactionary, and time and again that weakness has been exposed and has been his demise.

This team can't win with Ryan Kesler being in 100% defensive mode. "I got to kill the penalties, block the shots, and win the draws." Yes, he can do that all great, but by getting ride of some of those penalty prone wingers, Anaheim gets offensive Kesler as well. Team. This is a team game, and one of this team's best players can't be picking up the slack for everyone else's lack of judgment. Not in the NHL!
rubberduckies
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Huntington beach, CA
Joined: 02.21.2008

Jul 14 @ 7:01 PM ET
David Perron also walked. Not a huge loss, granted, but the Ducks essentially gave up Hagelin for nothing. As a Kings fan, not really throwing stones cause I know what that's like, but at least we didn't overpay to retain Lucic.
- PancakesPenner

OVERPAID TO GET HIM THOUGH
KINGS67
Season Ticket Holder
Los Angeles Kings
Location: Rolling Hills Estates, CA
Joined: 01.29.2010

Jul 14 @ 7:22 PM ET
OVERPAID TO GET HIM THOUGH
- rubberduckies

Yes, yes they did. Really really wanted to see C. Miller with Kings. DL has Been terrible in his last couple years with judging trades and thinking these players would take less to stay. But like it was stated, I'm glad Kings didn't overpay to get lucic AND overpay him to stay.
quackup
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Joined: 09.29.2014

Jul 14 @ 9:22 PM ET
Lol
The team need was D they got that. Good players or not it was still addressed. They needed goalies they addressed that as well to fill some voids. They needed wingers to fill out the wings. Ducks have a bunch of ?s with zero needs filled. Brown or gaborik is gone in expansion

- KINGS67


The bolded above are YOUR words. Basically you're admitting you filled your teams needs with marginally "good" players at best. Hah. And you're hoping and praying Brown or Gaborik are taken in the draft to get the anchors off your team. How stupid does your comment sound. Here's what you said: Hey, we had needs and we filled them. The players may be crap but it doesn't matter, because we filled our needs.

The wingers you got are nothing to write home about. And the backup goalie. Please. You better hope and pray nothing happens to Quick.

HYSTERICAL
getzlaugh
Anaheim Ducks
Location: WA
Joined: 09.10.2015

Jul 14 @ 10:06 PM ET
Great blog post Ed, while the Ducks haven't been very active in the off season its important to realize the off season is no where near being over. BM will make his moves in good time, and has a lot of pieces he can move.

David Perron also walked. Not a huge loss, granted, but the Ducks essentially gave up Hagelin for nothing. As a Kings fan, not really throwing stones cause I know what that's like, but at least we didn't overpay to retain Lucic.


We gave Etem for Hagelin, seems like NYR gave him up for nothing too. Trading Hagelin to PIT allowed the Ducks to get their offense going, wound up climbing from last place in the Western Conference to first in the Pacific... Don't think it was for nothing.

Anaheim fans should have known Perron and McGinn were rentals. McGinn seemed like a great fit, but not worried by his departure (other than he signed with Arizona).

The deals will come, I think the Ducks could afford to shop Fowler and Despres for some forwards.



to add to that I think you see Shea Theodore become a full timer on the D end. -Lucas Neilson

100% Agree! Theodore is all the reason the Ducks can afford to move Fowler and Despres.
Aussiepenguin
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Sydney
Joined: 08.02.2014

Jul 15 @ 6:58 AM ET
Question Ducks fans.

With these questions about what the team will eventually look like, coaching & overall competitiveness, if the Ducks start the year like they did this season how much pressure will there be for big changes to be implemented immediately (ie, make a big blockbuster trade), or are you guys satisfied with missing the playoffs & see it as a Sharks like transition (miss 1 year come back bigger & better the next)??
dozerD10
Anaheim Ducks
Location: long beach, CA
Joined: 01.29.2014

Jul 15 @ 8:23 AM ET
Question Ducks fans.

With these questions about what the team will eventually look like, coaching & overall competitiveness, if the Ducks start the year like they did this season how much pressure will there be for big changes to be implemented immediately (ie, make a big blockbuster trade), or are you guys satisfied with missing the playoffs & see it as a Sharks like transition (miss 1 year come back bigger & better the next)??

- Aussiepenguin


Missing the playoffs sucks no matter how you slice it -
Starting the season like last yr just shows how much time is actually left in every season - going from last in conference to 1st in division after December 1 - so no I don't think there will be a panic - however guys have to come into camp in better shape -
DonzoBean
Los Angeles Kings
Location: Denver, CO
Joined: 03.16.2011

Jul 15 @ 10:56 AM ET
A 1-8 record can be chalked up to puck luck?

Yes, results count and no, I'm not a Boudreau detractor. Every Duck fan wants a cup and none of them care if their PDO is the lowest in the league. Its irrelevant if the team doesn't win. But I'll ask the masses.

Duck fans how many of you would swap the lowest PDO in the league over the course of last season, for a Stanley Cup?

To quote Vin Scully: "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamppost: for support, not illumination."

The statistics don't support your argument. 1-8 in game 7s doesn't cut it at this level, especially for a team that should contend for a championship.

- Ed Stein


I see the 1-8 record. Everyone sees the 1-8 record. If I were a Ducks fan I would be frustrated and I respect the desire to move on for the sake of having a different voice in the room. But pointing at the record over and over because it looks bad is not a sufficient argument without context to support it, context that does not exist because the results were, demonstrably, out of Boudreau's control.

I will reiterate my original question(s): what has Boudreau tangibly done wrong in game 7s and what could he have done differently in those games to get a different outcome? Again, bearing in mind that the Ducks' PDO in game 7s is 91.8 when the "average" PDO is 100? I'm assuming that you understand the concept of PDO and why it matters. If not, there's not much more to discuss.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Jul 15 @ 12:49 PM ET
Who?

Which forwards the Ducks didn't resign would be considered a big loss? David Perron is very streaky. Jamie McGinn played well during his brief OC stay, but come on he's a borderline top six player. Brandon Pirri? Mike Santorelli? Not big losses. Reality check please.


This is pretty laughable, I'm sorry. Defensively you guys are stacked with solid back-stopping behind them. Up front? You guys significantly thinned out. Yeah, he's probably accurate in those players not being huge losses(although I think McGinn is a HIGHLY underrated player), but who did you replace them with?

Much of this could be very premature as there is still plenty of time for moves to be made. You guys could easily move one of your dmen for a top-six winger and sign a few solid ufas: Vrbata, Gagner, Hudler and there are some solid depth players still available for likely good prices.


But just in response to what this blogger is stating is wayyyyy off. The losses aren't the issue, it's how you replace that is.
Eman87654
Anaheim Ducks
Location: CA
Joined: 12.06.2015

Jul 15 @ 12:55 PM ET
I see the 1-8 record. Everyone sees the 1-8 record. If I were a Ducks fan I would be frustrated and I respect the desire to move on for the sake of having a different voice in the room. But pointing at the record over and over because it looks bad is not a sufficient argument without context to support it, context that does not exist because the results were, demonstrably, out of Boudreau's control.

I will reiterate my original question(s): what has Boudreau tangibly done wrong in game 7s and what could he have done differently in those games to get a different outcome? Again, bearing in mind that the Ducks' PDO in game 7s is 91.8 when the "average" PDO is 100? I'm assuming that you understand the concept of PDO and why it matters. If not, there's not much more to discuss.

- DonzoBean

I personally don't know what PDO is . Boudreau isn't a bad couch . But i personally don't like the way he handles vetrans . Selanne hated him . He couldn't work Wisniewski into the line up so he benched him. He through getzlaf under the bus at the begining of the season . Also he always seem to lack fore sight . Like 3 years ago when we ran away with the division instead of resting players he pushed them . 2 years ago we played calgary and winnapeg. We had a 3-0 and a 3-1 lead and continued to use his regulars instead of working in the back ups . Last year he kept flip flopping on style of play . He started with emphasising shot generation . Then went to shot suppression . Then went back to the cycle . Most of these things are small . But add them up and they hurt the team .
IGotTheMemo
Anaheim Ducks
Location: Orange County
Joined: 04.29.2016

Jul 15 @ 2:12 PM ET
I see the 1-8 record. Everyone sees the 1-8 record. If I were a Ducks fan I would be frustrated and I respect the desire to move on for the sake of having a different voice in the room. But pointing at the record over and over because it looks bad is not a sufficient argument without context to support it, context that does not exist because the results were, demonstrably, out of Boudreau's control.

I will reiterate my original question(s): what has Boudreau tangibly done wrong in game 7s and what could he have done differently in those games to get a different outcome? Again, bearing in mind that the Ducks' PDO in game 7s is 91.8 when the "average" PDO is 100? I'm assuming that you understand the concept of PDO and why it matters. If not, there's not much more to discuss.

- DonzoBean


Teams have won games with a low PDO. Why was the PDO low? Anyways, in the first period of the game 7 against the Kings, Brown made a chip past Lovejoy and practically undressed him while drawing a penalty. Plays like that win big games. Sutter had your guys focused. The Ducks weren't there.

In 2014 when the Kings had to play their absolute best they did. In 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016 the Ducks haven't found it.
Ed Stein
Anaheim Ducks
Location: McKinney, TX
Joined: 10.14.2007

Jul 15 @ 9:16 PM ET
I see the 1-8 record. Everyone sees the 1-8 record. If I were a Ducks fan I would be frustrated and I respect the desire to move on for the sake of having a different voice in the room. But pointing at the record over and over because it looks bad is not a sufficient argument without context to support it, context that does not exist because the results were, demonstrably, out of Boudreau's control.

I will reiterate my original question(s): what has Boudreau tangibly done wrong in game 7s and what could he have done differently in those games to get a different outcome? Again, bearing in mind that the Ducks' PDO in game 7s is 91.8 when the "average" PDO is 100? I'm assuming that you understand the concept of PDO and why it matters. If not, there's not much more to discuss.

- DonzoBean


I'll give you two. Game 7 vs. Nashville, the Ducks came out flat, got in a 2-0 hole and never recovered. That is on the coach. 2015, WCF Game 7 vs Chicago. The entire world knew Andersen was gassed in game 6. He should have switched to Gibson, but went with a mentally spent Andersen. At the very least, Gibson should have gotten one start in the first two series. BB rode Andersen like a government mule and burned him out.
Brooks_Light
Joined: 08.13.2015

Jul 15 @ 9:38 PM ET
When push comes to shove numerous teams are going to have to make hard decisions.

I don't disagree with you but if you don't want to play the game make your own comment & not slag mine.

Not trying to be rude, not my intention, but bloggers, journalist, broadcasters & fantasy GM's have to look extrapolate as well as take snap shots.

Obviously you don't participate in fantasy leagues or if you did you would care. I participate in 3 & run 8, each cost 5K to participate in. Rest assured every GM in these leagues is extrapolating this data dailey & trying to get a handle on it as it significantly impacts our fantasy teams & our ability to win. Just like the real world. These are crazed hockey pool/fantasy league GM's.

- striker777


see thats your problem right there - you get mixed up thinking that fantasy and real life are the same and you run around to each thread acting like a GM that knows everything when in actual fact you're spouting off gibberish and coming off like an idiot troll .
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