I still say, like PeteV said and I have been saying, if there are no moves and they can fit the rfa's what is the point of buying out Girardi and having dead cap space? He wont be playing with a cracked kneecap. Or a concussion. One can assume he might be slightly better than he was last year.
- mdw7413

Same thing I have been saying. That was referring to the G is the worst since Goneau people.

Same thing I have been saying. That was referring to the G is the worst since Goneau people.
- Fenrir

I know.

RD just wants Girardi gone so we can't make fun of him any more if McIlrath still can't get a regular spot.

I think this team may be best with both McIlrath and Holden playing next year if G continues to struggle.

But one of those 2 will be forced to sit due to Girardi's seniority and we will ultimately be a worse team.

Whether or not Holden "beats" out McIlrath, it's clear that AV values veteran experience over youth. Just like Dan Boyle played over McIlrath when he shouldn't have, if Holden does make he team over McIlrath, it does not mean Holden is more effective than McIlrath.
- rangerdanger94

Eventually you have to poop or get off the pot. AV has played many young players during his time here. The player needs to show the coach that he is going to help the team win. We are penciling Skjei into the lineup, and aren't expressing any concern that AV will play some lesser than defensemen because Skjei is young, right? Why is that? Because he is just better, and likely has proved to the coach that he deserves the spot.

It's just my opinion, but if you intend to go to battle with Klein, McIlrath and Holden on the right side, I just don't think that is even close to a winning formula.

I know.

RD just wants Girardi gone so we can't make fun of him any more if McIlrath still can't get a regular spot.
- mdw7413

Too bad AV hates physical D.

Eventually you have to poop or get off the pot. AV has played many young players during his time here. The player needs to show the coach that he is going to help the team win. We are penciling Skjei into the lineup, and aren't expressing any concern that AV will play some lesser than defensemen because Skjei is young, right? Why is that? Because he is just better, and likely has proved to the coach that he deserves the spot.

It's just my opinion, but if you intend to go to battle with Klein, McIlrath and Holden on the right side, I just don't think that is even close to a winning formula.
- Pete V

If Girardi plays at the Roman Hamrlik level he played at last year, we are even further from a winning formula.

Hopefully Girardi bounces back. But he if doesn't, we will all be shooting ourselves in the head 20 games into the season because he will continue to play 20 minutes a game on McDonagh's side. That's where he's penciled in to play and that's where he will play every single game no matter how badly he plays. It will make my eyes bleed.

Based on the eye test from last year, you don't think McIlrath is an NHL player? The kid was steady, physical, and has a bomb of a shot.

Please, stop the doomsday scenario. Rangers are still a playoff team. If we had drawn Forida in 1st round and beat them, then maybe we're singing a different tune. Because Nash is on a limited no trade, he's most likely to be rumored. Honestly, I don't see anything happening until either G or Staal get moved.Brooks is an idiot. None of the young guys where getting traded unless we signed Stamkos. He's a Hippocrate! He complains about Girardi and Staal, but thinks we should've signed Yandle? 7 more years? And as far as Nash being overvalued, look at what FA's where getting around the league. How much do you think Nash would've got? Look at Ladd and Backes. Nash has only 2 years left on his deal. I can see something done with Ducks where we bring back maybe Fowler? Or maybe he goes to Blues for Shattenkirk? But we will have a log jam at D. If we could trade just one of G or Staal, then maybe we could buyout the other.( With players going to arbitration, we have a new buyout period) obviously, we're not buying anyone out until we've exhausted all trade opportunities. I wouldn't worry about return on either, just get rid of them!! If Buffalo can't sign Vessey, I would offer Staal for his rights!! They have cap space and could afford to buy him out next year.

Eventually you have to poop or get off the pot. AV has played many young players during his time here. The player needs to show the coach that he is going to help the team win. We are penciling Skjei into the lineup, and aren't expressing any concern that AV will play some lesser than defensemen because Skjei is young, right? Why is that? Because he is just better, and likely has proved to the coach that he deserves the spot.

It's just my opinion, but if you intend to go to battle with Klein, McIlrath and Holden on the right side, I just don't think that is even close to a winning formula.
- Pete V

You were on the money about Skjei. I remember a couple years ago when he was in college you saying he will definitely be a Ranger defenseman.

AV sleeps with a poster of Skjei in his room. I think Skjei got the most praise of any player last year from AV.

Too bad AV hates physical D.
- Fenrir

For the record, I would have played McIlrath more than Boyle, but in the end it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference anyway. So its funny when people complain about that.

If Girardi plays at the Roman Hamrlik level he played at last year, we are even further from a winning formula.

Hopefully Girardi bounces back. But he if doesn't, we will all be shooting ourselves in the head 20 games into the season because he will continue to play 20 minutes a game on McDonagh's side. That's where he's penciled in to play and that's where he will play every single game no matter how badly he plays. It will make my eyes bleed.

Based on the eye test from last year, you don't think McIlrath is an NHL player? The kid was steady, physical, and has a bomb of a shot.
- rangerdanger94

I think McIlrath is an NHL player, but I think he is probably going to be a career third pairing guy. I think he has some positive attributes, physicality, great shot, etc. but I think he gets exposed, and will continue to get exposed badly, when he plays against other teams top forwards. I don't think he either skates well enough or his heady enough to deal with those type players.

So, basically what I am saying is that if you bump up Klein to first pair defender, and Holden and McIlrath to slot in some order behind him, that is a dumpster fire waiting to happen. Neither Holden or McIlrath is a good option on the second pair, and Klein really isn't a good option on the first pair. At least with Klein and Girardi the hope would be that you have two solid second pair defensemen, which is a better than second pair defense, and two third pair defensemen.

Not to mention the part about having several years of dead cap space so you can play Holden and McIlrath more. That really is a big issue.

If Girardi plays at the Roman Hamrlik level he played at last year, we are even further from a winning formula.

Hopefully Girardi bounces back. But he if doesn't, we will all be shooting ourselves in the head 20 games into the season because he will continue to play 20 minutes a game on McDonagh's side. That's where he's penciled in to play and that's where he will play every single game no matter how badly he plays. It will make my eyes bleed.

Based on the eye test from last year, you don't think McIlrath is an NHL player? The kid was steady, physical, and has a bomb of a shot.
- rangerdanger94

I thought Mcilrath looked fine and only got better the more minutes he got last year. Definition of black balled.

For the record, I would have played McIlrath more than Boyle, but in the end it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference anyway. So its funny when people complain about that.
- mdw7413

I agree with Pete that a defense containing Klein, McIlrath, and Holden is less than ideal. Those names on paper are just plain scary.

Girardi, Klein, McIlrath/Holden looks much better on paper. But that's because we associate all those good years Girardi played with his name. When we see Girardi on paper, we assume "20 minute a night minute eater who's good at shutting down the opponent". That association is why Pete wants to keep Girardi around.

But what if we replaced Girardi's name on paper with a name that was more reflective of his play last year: Hamrlik.

Does Hamrlik, Klein, McIlrath still look better than Klein, McIlrath, Holden?

Exactly. If the Rangers had a plan going into the free agency frenzy to replace Girardi and they bought him out, so be it. The way the team is right now, there is no way I buyout Girardi this year. What a waste.

They should give him less minutes to start the year and see how he is. If he is playing well they can increase his minutes as the season progresses. I would start Klein as my 1st pairing guy with McDonagh.
- mdw7413

The plan was to sign Michael "Luis Mendoza" Grabner

I think McIlrath is an NHL player, but I think he is probably going to be a career third pairing guy. I think he has some positive attributes, physicality, great shot, etc. but I think he gets exposed, and will continue to get exposed badly, when he plays against other teams top forwards. I don't think he either skates well enough or his heady enough to deal with those type players.

So, basically what I am saying is that if you bump up Klein to first pair defender, and Holden and McIlrath to slot in some order behind him, that is a dumpster fire waiting to happen. Neither Holden or McIlrath is a good option on the second pair, and Klein really isn't a good option on the first pair. At least with Klein and Girardi the hope would be that you have two solid second pair defensemen, which is a better than second pair defense, and two third pair defensemen.

Not to mention the part about having several years of dead cap space so you can play Holden and McIlrath more. That really is a big issue.
- Pete V

Get Skjei playing that opposite side then and move Klein down.

Get Skjei playing that opposite side then and move Klein down.
- mrn22

This is also an option. I know that AV seems very particular on the lefty-righty thing, but AV told the coaches in the AHL to play Skjei on the right side and he seems comfortable there.

I agree with Pete that a defense containing Klein, McIlrath, and Holden is less than ideal. Those names on paper are just plain scary.

Girardi, Klein, McIlrath/Holden looks much better on paper. But that's because we associate all those good years Girardi played with his name. When we see Girardi on paper, we assume "20 minute a night minute eater who's good at shutting down the opponent". That association is why Pete wants to keep Girardi around.

But what if we replaced Girardi's name on paper with a name that was more reflective of his play last year: Hamrlik.

Does Hamrlik, Klein, McIlrath still look better than Klein, McIlrath, Holden?
- rangerdanger94

I get what you are saying, RD. And if Girardi is really done you may be right. But, don't you have to allow for the possibility that it's not the case, and he was ineffective and banged up last year. It's not as if you buying out Girardi to replace him with some obviously better option. You would be buying him out, and incurring significant long term consequence, because you think that playing Holden and McIlrath on the right side may be better?

That's just not worth it to me, even if you think that last year's Girardi isn't what future Girardi will be. To incur that type of long term cap consequence, you need to at least give the player another shot to bounce back, unless you had a much better option in the bag. I am not doing that just to play Holden and McIlrath.

I agree with Pete that a defense containing Klein, McIlrath, and Holden is less than ideal. Those names on paper are just plain scary.

Girardi, Klein, McIlrath/Holden looks much better on paper. But that's because we associate all those good years Girardi played with his name. When we see Girardi on paper, we assume "20 minute a night minute eater who's good at shutting down the opponent". That association is why Pete wants to keep Girardi around.

But what if we replaced Girardi's name on paper with a name that was more reflective of his play last year: Hamrlik.

Does Hamrlik, Klein, McIlrath still look better than Klein, McIlrath, Holden?
- rangerdanger94

They all look bad.

The point is, why use the buyout now for really no reason except to really hamstring yourself. Its not like Holden is this prized defenseman. Girardi played like crap last year, no one is disputing that, but you don't think maybe some of that was from injuries? The dead cap space is way more of a risk then just seeing how Girardi plays next year.

Its not like Girardi gets bought out, Holden plays and we are a cup favorite. It would be a waste of money for no good reason.

The plan was to sign Michael "Luis Mendoza" Grabner


- eichiefs9

If he can improve the PK by 5% its a win in my book.

This is also an option. I know that AV seems very particular on the lefty-righty thing, but AV told the coaches in the AHL to play Skjei on the right side and he seems comfortable there.
- rangerdanger94

Then who plays on the third pairing left side? You going to move McIlrath or Holden there and, therefore, have two players playing out of position?

They all look bad.

The point is, why use the buyout now for really no reason except to really hamstring yourself. Its not like Holden is this prized defenseman. Girardi played like crap last year, no one is disputing that, but you don't think maybe some of that was from injuries? The dead cap space is way more of a risk then just seeing how Girardi plays next year.

Its not like Girardi gets bought out, Holden plays and we are a cup favorite. It would be a waste of money for no good reason.
- mdw7413

Exactly.

I get what you are saying, RD. And if Girardi is really done you may be right. But, don't you have to allow for the possibility that it's not the case, and he was ineffective and banged up last year. It's not as if you buying out Girardi to replace him with some obviously better option. You would be buying him out, and incurring significant long term consequence, because you think that playing Holden and McIlrath on the right side may be better?

That's just not worth it to me, even if you think that last year's Girardi isn't what future Girardi will be. To incur that type of long term cap consequence, you need to at least give the player another shot to bounce back, unless you had a much better option in the bag. I am not doing that just to play Holden and McIlrath.
- Pete V

I think Girardi has earned another chance. Ultimately, management clearly feels that Girardi was negatively impacted by his injuries last year and we have to trust that. They know more about that than we do.

Obviously Dolan has no issues spending money to buyout a player so if management felt that that was the best route with Girardi, they would take it.

I think McIlrath is an NHL player, but I think he is probably going to be a career third pairing guy. I think he has some positive attributes, physicality, great shot, etc. but I think he gets exposed, and will continue to get exposed badly, when he plays against other teams top forwards. I don't think he either skates well enough or his heady enough to deal with those type players.

So, basically what I am saying is that if you bump up Klein to first pair defender, and Holden and McIlrath to slot in some order behind him, that is a dumpster fire waiting to happen. Neither Holden or McIlrath is a good option on the second pair, and Klein really isn't a good option on the first pair. At least with Klein and Girardi the hope would be that you have two solid second pair defensemen, which is a better than second pair defense, and two third pair defensemen.

Not to mention the part about having several years of dead cap space so you can play Holden and McIlrath more. That really is a big issue.
- Pete V

McIlwrath should be paired with Mcdonaugh! Gives Mac more freedom and will protect him. I think his biggest problem is screening Lundquist. He's been steadily improving and will continue to develop with Beukaboom. Much rather see him get chance than watching Girardi and Klein slowly deteriorate.

For the record, I would have played McIlrath more than Boyle, but in the end it wouldn't have made a damn bit of difference anyway. So its funny when people complain about that.
- mdw7413

McI wasn't any worse than Boyle defensively and could have used more than a few consecutive games to grow confidence and a chance to see the game from ice level rather than from the pressbox.

I think Girardi has earned another chance. Ultimately, management clearly feels that Girardi was negatively impacted by his injuries last year and we have to trust that. They know more about that than we do.

Obviously Dolan has no issues spending money to buyout a player so if management felt that that was the best route with Girardi, they would take it.
- rangerdanger94

Believe me, RD, I understand what you are saying. All I am saying is that if you are going to buyout a player on a long term deal, you better do it because you have an appealing option lying in wait. At this point, unless they make some unexpected trade that requires them to free up money, I don't see how a buyout makes sense.

Buying out Girardi would have years of consequence, so they better be damn well sure. This isn't a freeby Richards' type scenario where they have a get out of jail free card.

Exactly.
- Pete V

Now tell me they are buying out Girardi, to bring in Shattenkirk & extend him, I would be all on board.

McIlwrath should be paired with Mcdonaugh! Gives Mac more freedom and will protect him. I think his biggest problem is screening Lundquist. He's been steadily improving and will continue to develop with Beukaboom. Much rather see him get chance than watching Girardi and Klein slowly deteriorate.
- junaka3

What if you give him the chance, and he doesn't prove to be able? There is a big difference playing 10 shelter minutes a game, and consistently being on the ice against Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Malkin, etc.

If we want to give him the chance to play on the first pair that's fine with me. But, you better have a contingency play to put into place if he gets exposed there.