I'd rather trade Johnson if we need cap relief. Namestinkov seems ready to hold down a top 6 center spot, making Johnson somewhat expendable. Trade Bishop and Filp, and if we still need more cap space, trade TJ to try and hold onto Stamkos, Kucherov, Drouin, Palat, Killorn, and Namestinkov, who I consider the core offensively of the Lightning.

The main problem is that Murphy as OEL's partner just about ruins any advantage you gain with OEL in the lineup.

Also, bottom pairings win you games and this is one of the worst collection of bottom pairing D in the NHL. It's not a given for every team, but on average, most top fours probably cancel each other out to a wide degree. Sure, there are advantages, but I would bet you the biggest advantage you could get is having a bottom pairng that wold be another team's second pairing.
- James_Tanner

Thing is, Murphy still has room to develop. I agree that the bottom pairing is atrocious. I think the Pens just signed 3 guys as AHL depth that would be better options. But, I don't hate giving Murphy some more time. Especially if you're running that forward grouping out there.

namestnikov was one of the best forwards on the tampa bay lightning roster this past season..
- RileyB77

He was 6th in scoring and 4th in possession on the Lightning, but often found himself being bounced around the lineup. He played very well when he was playing with Stammer or Kuch, but when they dropped him down to the 3rd or 4th line, he kind of disappeared (given the quality of teammates). 3 points in 17 playoff games is pretty brutal for one of the best forwards on the Lightning...

No. No. And No.

He was 6th in scoring and 4th in possession on the Lightning, but often found himself being bounced around the lineup. He played very well when he was playing with Stammer or Kuch, but when they dropped him down to the 3rd or 4th line, he kind of disappeared (given the quality of teammates). 3 points in 17 playoff games is pretty brutal for one of the best forwards on the Lightning...
- j.boyd919

so when he was in a top 6 scoring role he thrived and when he was in a bottom six checking role he did not? shocker

so when he was in a top 6 scoring role he thrived and when he was in a bottom six checking role he did not? shocker
- RileyB77

the same thing could be said about johnathon drouin since he's been drafted. they finally keep him in a scoring role in the playoffs and look what happened

Thing is, Murphy still has room to develop. I agree that the bottom pairing is atrocious. I think the Pens just signed 3 guys as AHL depth that would be better options. But, I don't hate giving Murphy some more time. Especially if you're running that forward grouping out there.
- cranktheradio

Problem with Murphy: 180 games into his career and he's 23 - which means the probability that he peaks within the next year is very high. At this point that peak doesn't look good.

I see what you're saying, but adding three young forwards who are ready for more NHL ice time and are already guaranteed not to be busts would help the Coyotes out by allowing them to trade some of their younger prospects, most of whom are forwards.

If you put Palat, Namestnikov and Janmark on any team, they're going to be massively better.

As for Bishop not being much of an upgrade over Smith, that's taking everything into consideration.

1) Bishop is 29 and going to get more than you're paying Smith, which is over six million longterm.

2) Bishop's high danger save percentage isn't much better than Smith's, suggesting that a great part of his being perceived as way better than Smith is the fact that Bishop plays on a Cup Contender.

3) I don't think either of them are in the Lundqvist/Price/Schneider level where you're almost an instant contender by having them.

So I think it's pretty safe to say that Bishop over Smith isn't a massive upgrade while you're still playing behind Grossmann, Dahlbeck, Murphy, Tinordi etc.

Given the cost and the best-case-scenario of Bishop playing awesome, I still don't think he's a guy because of talent/age/contract/existing commitments that they need.
- James_Tanner

We can agree to disagree on Bishop vs Smith but Bishop is clearly superior and his play improved the Bolts. Also 29 years old is not old for a goalie. Bishop stabilized the Tampa net after Mike Smith and Lindback had their shots at being the Lightning goalie. No way would I want Smith back in Tampa.

Problem with Murphy: 180 games into his career and he's 23 - which means the probability that he peaks within the next year is very high. At this point that peak doesn't look good.
- James_Tanner

Dmen take 300-350 games typically before they peak but sure.

when did ben bishop become a cap dump?

Your blogs are bad and you should feel bad.
- jbold

concise

Problem with Murphy: 180 games into his career and he's 23 - which means the probability that he peaks within the next year is very high. At this point that peak doesn't look good.
- James_Tanner

I can see that, but I guess I've also seen guys like Niskanin/Cole really get it after people gave up on them. Then again, those were changes in scenery that jump started those changes.

Coyotes are going to be legit when this trade goes through

Domi Datsyuk Duclair
Palat Strome McGinn
Namesnikov Hanzal Doan
Callahan Keller White


Pronger OEL
Goligoski Chychrun
Michalek Tinordi

Bishop

With Datsyuk being a Selke winning 1st line center and a bonafide Norris trophy winner on defense in Pronger, not to mention all the players they are getting from Tampa for nothing, I smell a Stanley Cup parade in Glendale!
- TheGame316

Marc Savard would be a great addition to this group, adding his finesse would be a fantastic balancing act for the 2nd line. Adding him, and maybe a player like Smid for D depth would go a long way for their push to glory this season.

Hey buddy, it's a hockey blog and you need to dial back how serious you take it by about a mile.
- James_Tanner

agree

Sorry. I just don't see Tampa giving up Namestnikov and Palat to move Callahan. Tampa gives up to best 3 assets on this deal by a fair margin.

Sorry. I just don't see Tampa giving up Namestnikov and Palat to move Callahan. Tampa gives up to best 3 assets on this deal by a fair margin.

when did ben bishop become a cap dump?
- BestRapperAlive

it sucks but makes sense given we have Vasilevskiy who is ready to be a legitimate starter in the NHL. also, with the expansion draft and only being able to protect 1 of the 2 goalies it makes sense to trade now for assets rather than lose for nothing because it is logical to assume 1 of bishop / vasilevskiy will be gone and I think the team protects Vasilevskiy because he is cheaper and he is younger, suppose to be our franchise goaltender for the next decade

it sucks but makes sense given we have Vasilevskiy who is ready to be a legitimate starter in the NHL. also, with the expansion draft and only being able to protect 1 of the 2 goalies it makes sense to trade now for assets rather than lose for nothing because it is logical to assume 1 of bishop / vasilevskiy will be gone and I think the team protects Vasilevskiy because he is cheaper and he is younger, suppose to be our franchise goaltender for the next decade
- RileyB77

Seems more prudent to let him walk then to trade him +a proven asset for vaporware. Tampa already has an embarassment of riches, better of focusing on keeping as many as possible then to include in a dump for futures.

Johnson and Bishop, they could afford lose and still keep everyone else. Maybe get something at the deadline for one, but no need to package great players to 'dump' a top 10 goalie.

As always, I have to hand it to Mr. Tanner. He takes an interesting topic, goes full hyperbole with it, and generates discussion.

It's a mix between trolling and genius re: hits and overall discussion in his blogs once the vitriol dies down a bit.

As for the trades...well....no to all mentioned in the original blog- but good discussion starters.

1) Bishop, as many have mentioned, is not a "cap dump". Tampa is not in cap hell this season, but may yet be as soon as next summer. That said, we're talking about a multi-time Vezina candidate coming off, arguably, his best season (and playoffs) to date. He's a low risk "rental" for a team that wants to go all the way this year... or worth hanging onto for a Bolts team that may go all the way this coming year.

If Vasy drops the ball early, or simply doesn't seem up to being a 60+ start guy, yet, then hang onto him. So Bishop walks next year for nothing- oh well. Life goes on, and there's over 5 mil off the cap.

If Vasy proves he's as good as many of us thinks he is- take advantage of a GM will delusions of grandeur re: his team and cup aspirations at the deadline... if Bish says okie-dokie and decides to waive the no-trade (I believe it's a full?).

2) Kucherov. Considering what Stammer and Hedman just signed for, and considering how Kuch's personality seems to be (from what little we know of him)... he's not going in for $7mil+ per year. Maybe a bridge deal at 5.5 for 2-3 years.... sure, the kid is good- but he is not Stamkos. He's a highly skilled forward with some two-way acumen and has the luxury of playing with some great players- a 50 goal scorer? No.

3) Palat isn't going anywhere. He's very much part of the core.

4) Killorn is doubtfully going anywhere. He's a great two way forward, doesn't put up a ton of points, and won't demand a crazy contract.

5) Callahan is a bit of a millstone... one that, I fear, we're stuck with. One contract I really am not impressed with.

6) Filpulla has value. Great two way forward, good hands and offensive instincts... but is buried on the 3rd line. Could be a trade, there, considering he doesn't have a full NMC. That said, no reason to trade him now. Wait 'til next off season, post-expansion and post-free agency when GMs start panicking over tempests in teapots. It's what the majority of them do best.

7) Wouldn't be surprised at all to see Johnson go- if not this season, then next off season. That would be a case of buy low-sell high. He's been... questionable... over the past season. Personally, I don't see him as part of the long term plan. Namestnikov is intriguing for the #2C slot... and there's always Braydon Point, who may yet dazzle us.

8) D is not an issue. Hedman, Stralman, Garisson and Coburn are fine. Koekkoek looks primed to be a real player. Nesterov, Masin and Sustr (who I hated a lot less than usual in the playoffs) can fight for that final spot. Carle's gone... all is right with the world.

That felt good- haven't logged on to HB in a while...

Oh, right, Tanner.

In summation: No thanks!

so when he was in a top 6 scoring role he thrived and when he was in a bottom six checking role he did not? shocker
- RileyB77

I like Namestnikov, I think he's a blast to watch play, dudes got skills and silky hands. But if you're not going to put him in a position to succeed, then why have him? I don't want to see the dude get bounced around the lineup. Same with Drouin, I think both of those guys need to be top 6 forwards 100% of the time. No one benefits from playing with Boyle, Condra, or Paquette. Another Q is, did his TOI/spot in the lineup change due to cooling off, or did it change due to players (Johnson, Palat, Cally) coming off injuries, or was it a combo of both?

As always, I have to hand it to Mr. Tanner. He takes an interesting topic, goes full hyperbole with it, and generates discussion.

It's a mix between trolling and genius re: hits and overall discussion in his blogs once the vitriol dies down a bit.

As for the trades...well....no to all mentioned in the original blog- but good discussion starters.

1) Bishop, as many have mentioned, is not a "cap dump". Tampa is not in cap hell this season, but may yet be as soon as next summer. That said, we're talking about a multi-time Vezina candidate coming off, arguably, his best season (and playoffs) to date. He's a low risk "rental" for a team that wants to go all the way this year... or worth hanging onto for a Bolts team that may go all the way this coming year.

If Vasy drops the ball early, or simply doesn't seem up to being a 60+ start guy, yet, then hang onto him. So Bishop walks next year for nothing- oh well. Life goes on, and there's over 5 mil off the cap.

If Vasy proves he's as good as many of us thinks he is- take advantage of a GM will delusions of grandeur re: his team and cup aspirations at the deadline... if Bish says okie-dokie and decides to waive the no-trade (I believe it's a full?).

2) Kucherov. Considering what Stammer and Hedman just signed for, and considering how Kuch's personality seems to be (from what little we know of him)... he's not going in for $7mil+ per year. Maybe a bridge deal at 5.5 for 2-3 years.... sure, the kid is good- but he is not Stamkos. He's a highly skilled forward with some two-way acumen and has the luxury of playing with some great players- a 50 goal scorer? No.

3) Palat isn't going anywhere. He's very much part of the core.

4) Killorn is doubtfully going anywhere. He's a great two way forward, doesn't put up a ton of points, and won't demand a crazy contract.

5) Callahan is a bit of a millstone... one that, I fear, we're stuck with. One contract I really am not impressed with.

6) Filpulla has value. Great two way forward, good hands and offensive instincts... but is buried on the 3rd line. Could be a trade, there, considering he doesn't have a full NMC. That said, no reason to trade him now. Wait 'til next off season, post-expansion and post-free agency when GMs start panicking over tempests in teapots. It's what the majority of them do best.

7) Wouldn't be surprised at all to see Johnson go- if not this season, then next off season. That would be a case of buy low-sell high. He's been... questionable... over the past season. Personally, I don't see him as part of the long term plan. Namestnikov is intriguing for the #2C slot... and there's always Braydon Point, who may yet dazzle us.

8) D is not an issue. Hedman, Stralman, Garisson and Coburn are fine. Koekkoek looks primed to be a real player. Nesterov, Masin and Sustr (who I hated a lot less than usual in the playoffs) can fight for that final spot. Carle's gone... all is right with the world.

That felt good- haven't logged on to HB in a while...

Oh, right, Tanner.

In summation: No thanks!
- OzBolts

Kucherov is a bettter hockey player than Stamkos.

I think the issue is that you're treating Bishop like an anchor, when in fact he has strong value in a trade. I'd argue that he could net Tampa a first round pick and a Perlini-esque prospect all on his own

If that's the case, then suddenly your proposal has Tampa paying an extraordinarily steep price to unload Callahan's cap hit. None of the players coming back from Arizona are really worth anything

A more realistic proposal might involve your first round pick, and a slightly stronger prospect than Perlini (Dvorak?) in exchange for Palat

i do enjoy a good trade proposal though, and the underlying logic behind this one (being paid to take on garbage salary) is sound

Kucherov is a bettter hockey player than Stamkos.


- j.boyd919

Playing, usually, with better line mates.

I don't buy the Kucherov>Stamkos argument for one second, having watched this team for a long, long time.

Kucherov is a bettter hockey player than Stamkos.


- j.boyd919

I love that hockey has literally come down too...

"Player A is absolutely better than player b"

Oh yeah? Can you prov...

"PROVE IT!? I'VE GOT A (frank)ING MULTI-COLORED GRAPH!!!"

Playing, usually, with better line mates.

I don't buy the Kucherov>Stamkos argument for one second, having watched this team for a long, long time.
- OzBolts

Yeah, me too. Been watching them since I moved to Tampa in 2010. Well aware of what both are capable of.