My thoughts after a day to calm down.

Let Holland contract expire and don't resign. I don't like most of these deals and I especially hate the helm deal.

I didn't expect a #1 C, #1 D to just appear and I think making a trade for one is for the most part impossible or extremely improbable.

But you dont clear that much cap to sign helm. I understand the Neilson contract but helms makes no sense. We don't need him.

AA is as good or better. Or will be in a season at most to surpass helm. Same skill type.

If it really boils down to "what do you want him to do" and it's either sign horrible contracts or get no one.

I choose get no one and try and rely on what we do best. Which is draft and develop. At this rate. Toronto is gonna win a cup before Detroit does again. I would hate to go thru what they have been but I would much rather bottom out than to continue into 1st round bounce after first round bounce and staying into a playoff streak that we win 1 or 2 games every other year.

I'm a little bummed we didn't get Stamkos. It was expected tho.

Well keep talking about the wings need a real shake up. They need a real change. The change is management. That's the issue.

I don't hate Holland. I don't. But it's time for a change.

I think we are a better team today than we were yesterday.

I dont understand what most of your expectations of Holland were, or what you wanted him to do. IMO, playing kids that are not ready for full time NHL duty would set the organization back more than help now.

I am looking to see how this plays out.

my wishlist:
Play Ouellette over Ericsson, Mrazek maintain form for a full season and Holland trades for a quality young dman using this new found depth.

my expectation:
we will be a bubble playoff team, but we get in a little smoother due to veteran depth that can still help us in our top 9 (Nielsen, Vanek) vs olders guys that just dont have it anymore (Richards, Modano).

I think we are a better team today than we were yesterday.

I dont understand what most of your expectations of Holland were, or what you wanted him to do. IMO, playing kids that are not ready for full time NHL duty would set the organization back more than help now.

I am looking to see how this plays out.

my wishlist:
Play Ouellette over Ericsson, Mrazek maintain form for a full season and Holland trades for a quality young dman using this new found depth.

my expectation:
we will be a bubble playoff team, but we get in a little smoother due to veteran depth that can still help us in our top 9 (Nielsen, Vanek) vs olders guys that just dont have it anymore (Richards, Modano).
- BooBoo997

You don't think Martha is ready? Looked pretty ready last season. You don't think AA has earned a permanent spot in the lineup? Looked like it to me.

I understand you don't fill your roster with all of Grand Rapids but seriously XO can't go back down. So ready or not he's either up or out.

I wouldn't be complaining if we signed Neilson and Vanek. That's it.

But ott? Why for what purpose? He's 100% unnecessary. And helms deal. Is not good. This coupled with Abdelkader bad deal and the rest of the bad contracts, is enough to say Holland is doing a bad job

And don't give me this, we'll his hands are tied or there's no other option. The option was to let helm walk and to not sign ott. Other GMs seem to be good at signing long term deals to the right players? And don't struggle with this nearly as bad,

Holland is not the absolute worst gm. But he certainly isn't one of the best anymore. The wings fan expect better than bubble team year after year

And if that requires a tear down then so be it. I'm not thrilled with that idea but im sick of the mentality "there's no other option"

3 teams that got worse on July 1 http://www.thescore.com/news/1053582 (via http://thesco.re/theScore_App)

they get pushed around when the going gets tough. they are still relatively younger but im all for trading one of them away in a package for a defenseman.
- wingz4life

Just from seeing 3-4 Wings games a yr, 2 yrs ago I thought they were going to be studs. This past year they seemed kinda meh. Just curious what the consensus is on them.

Just from seeing 3-4 Wings games a yr, 2 yrs ago I thought they were going to be studs. This past year they seemed kinda meh. Just curious what the consensus is on them.
- sammy87

Nyquist and Tatar? u can throw them in with Jurco, Pulkinnen and others. they dont seem to have any impact on the game in any significant manner. Id keep Nyquist and trade Tatar.

Like these are supposed to be skill guys. But, you rarely see them make a big time skill play. For example: Pulkkinen has that big shot but he is rarely able to pull it off because he cant find open ice.

How much cap space is left? Assuming Franzen goes on LTIR I'm not sure if Vitale is so I don't want to back on that. Although going to the Ahl well still get somewhat of a break there.

Nyquist and Tatar? u can throw them in with Jurco, Pulkinnen and others. they dont seem to have any impact on the game in any significant manner. Id keep Nyquist and trade Tatar.

Like these are supposed to be skill guys. But, you rarely see them make a big time skill play. For example: Pulkkinen has that big shot but he is rarely able to pull it off because he cant find open ice.
- wingz4life

Yeah Nyqvist had back to back seasons near 30g then what 18 last year? I thought Puilkkinen looked really good vs the Pens a while back. Is he just buried on the depth chart? Seems like the Wings have a lot of decent players but outside of Larkin, no great players?

Yeah Nyqvist had back to back seasons near 30g then what 18 last year? I thought Puilkkinen looked really good vs the Pens a while back. Is he just buried on the depth chart? Seems like the Wings have a lot of decent players but outside of Larkin, no great players?
- sammy87

outside of Larkin there is Mantha, AA, Svechnikov, Bertuzzi but u have to spend 10 years in the minors to play for the red wings.

I like the moves the Wings made. They are getting value for 2 out of 3 guys. Signing Nielson for that long gives some stabilty although i would have only sign him to a 3year deal. The team still looks great. It would be wise to look at moving Howard for a servicable d-man.

I like the moves the Wings made. They are getting value for 2 out of 3 guys. Signing Nielson for that long gives some stabilty although i would have only sign him to a 3year deal. The team still looks great. It would be wise to look at moving Howard for a servicable d-man.
- Mattty

i like ur sarcasm

outside of Larkin there is Mantha, AA, Svechnikov, Bertuzzi but u have to spend 10 years in the minors to play for the red wings.
- wingz4life

Forgot about Mantha. Nyqvist and Tatar are like 25 and 26 years old. Not exactly prospects, but should be established players. They just dont seem like they've been around very long. To put in perspective Crosby is 28 and on his 11th season I believe.

The league is a younger mans game now. #letthekidsplay. Longer they spend in the minors the more they are forming into a career minor leaguer. I'm just waiting for holland to press the "panic" button again for the 5 th signing of Quincey.

Why is nobody talking about Russo ?

The league is a younger mans game now. #letthekidsplay. Longer they spend in the minors the more they are forming into a career minor leaguer. I'm just waiting for holland to press the "panic" button again for the 5 th signing of Quincey.

Why is nobody talking about Russo ?
- hockeyislife99

Russo hasnt spent the required decade in the minors yet to be considered. im ALL for letting the kids play and i think most fans are but, this org. will NEVER let that happen

Russo hasnt spent the required decade in the minors yet to be considered. im ALL for letting the kids play and i think most fans are but, this org. will NEVER let that happen
- wingz4life

Yes very frustrating, our players put up legit numbers in minors don't get any sniffs.

Russo hasnt spent the required decade in the minors yet to be considered. im ALL for letting the kids play and i think most fans are but, this org. will NEVER let that happen
- wingz4life

Can't even imagine how the prospects feel. Every year going into camp they know they can't make the team cause holland signs anyone that can half ass skate to block them.

The league is a younger mans game now. #letthekidsplay. Longer they spend in the minors the more they are forming into a career minor leaguer. I'm just waiting for holland to press the "panic" button again for the 5 th signing of Quincey.

Why is nobody talking about Russo ?
- hockeyislife99

Yeah the Pens finally had success and a main reason was bring up the young players like Rust, Wilson, Sheary, and Kuhnackle. Shero and Bylsma never would have given them a chance. They just trade picks away for players like Winnick.

Teams that are not the Detroit Red Wings manage to find a way to bring young players along.

I've said this before, but I think a big part of the issue is consistently overvaluing veteran fourth line talent. The gap between a Drew Miller or Luke Glendening vs. a Mitch Callahan, Tomas Nosek, Joakim Andersson, Cory Emmerton, Fill In Your Favorite Fourth Line Energy Guy Who Plays a Little PK Here, whatever is just not that big, especially when you're only giving them 9-12 minutes per night. That's how being on the right edge of the global bell curve works -- the further you get down the ladder from "Sidney Crosby," the more numerous and interchangeable the options become and the more minuscule the separation is from player to player.

It's not like if we gave every minute Drew Miller would have played this year to, say, Nosek (just to pick a name out of a hat, not suggesting Nosek should be on the NHL roster) we'd go from being a 97-point team to a 91-point team. It probably would barely make a lick of difference either way.

And those guys are, for all intents and purposes, free to add whenever you want. You call up one of your two-way forwards from the farm, or you pluck a guy playing on an AHL-only deal somewhere (those all have built-in out clauses if an NHL team comes calling).

So from my perspective the hustle to re-sign Miller at more than $1 million per season before July even begins and picking up Steve Ott on day 1 of free agency is, in a word, senseless. Not necessarily saying that they have nothing to contribute, but the thing is that if you ever need a Drew Miller or Steve Ott-style player, you can always get one, usually for league minimum, usually without costing you any assets, whether the calendar says July or February.

Maybe the kids really aren't ready. That's possible. But if that's the case, let them come to camp with a real shot to win a job, see what they can do, and if after the preseason or a few weeks of regular season play you still think they need more seasoning, then you go out and pick up your defensive-minded fourth line vet. They'll still be available, trust me. Coming to camp with 18 forwards (or whatever) on 1-ways deals is not only completely unnecessary, it's counter-productive toward having the actual flexibility to promote from within when your prospects actually show that they're ready.

Teams that are not the Detroit Red Wings manage to find a way to bring young players along.

I've said this before, but I think a big part of the issue is consistently overvaluing veteran fourth line talent. The gap between a Drew Miller or Luke Glendening vs. a Mitch Callahan, Tomas Nosek, Joakim Andersson, Cory Emmerton, Fill In Your Favorite Fourth Line Energy Guy Who Plays a Little PK Here, whatever is just not that big, especially when you're only giving them 9-12 minutes per night. That's how being on the right edge of the global bell curve works -- the further you get down the ladder from "Sidney Crosby," the more numerous and interchangeable the options become and the more minuscule the separation is from player to player.

It's not like if we gave every minute Drew Miller would have played this year to, say, Nosek (just to pick a name out of a hat, not suggesting Nosek should be on the NHL roster) we'd go from being a 97-point team to a 91-point team. It probably would barely make a lick of difference either way.

And those guys are, for all intents and purposes, free to add whenever you want. You call up one of your two-way forwards from the farm, or you pluck a guy playing on an AHL-only deal somewhere (those all have built-in out clauses if an NHL team comes calling).

So from my perspective the hustle to re-sign Miller at more than $1 million per season before July even begins and picking up Steve Ott on day 1 of free agency is, in a word, senseless. Not necessarily saying that they have nothing to contribute, but the thing is that if you ever need a Drew Miller or Steve Ott-style player, you can always get one, usually for league minimum, usually without costing you any assets, whether the calendar says July or February.

Maybe the kids really aren't ready. That's possible. But if that's the case, let them come to camp with a real shot to win a job, see what they can do, and if after the preseason or a few weeks of regular season play you still think they need more seasoning, then you go out and pick up your defensive-minded fourth line vet. They'll still be available, trust me. Coming to camp with 18 forwards (or whatever) on 1-ways deals is not only completely unnecessary, it's counter-productive toward having the actual flexibility to promote from within when your prospects actually show that they're ready.
- Sven22

A thought. How much of these 1 yr deal players recently signed is to keep some kids down so they don't have to be protected for the expansion draft?

A thought. How much of these 1 yr deal players recently signed is to keep some kids down so they don't have to be protected for the expansion draft?
- Bren4Wings

None.

Any player with more than 2 years of professional experience is eligible to be taken in the expansion draft -- whether those years are spent in the NHL, AHL or elsewhere.

For example, Larkin will be exempt but Mantha will need to be protected regardless of what league he plays in this year because he began his professional career in 2014-15.

Still expect the Red Wings to move Nyquist or Tatar for a Dman like Fowler. Then it also opens a spot in the top 6 for Mantha or AA.

The Helm deal is still terrible though

The kids lit it up in last years camp. Mantha, bertuzzi, aa, larkin were possible the 4 best rookies in the league in pre season. It'll be the same story this year. Wings refuse to utilize entry level cAp friendly deals like all the best teams in the league do. We are always in cap trouble with a no good team and stuck with lengthy buy out contracts.

we are to busy trying to turn our prospect into "system" robots. It's like with mantha, the guy is an elite sniper, why are we trying to take that away from him and turn him into a "two way" player. Every team has snipers that aren't the best two way players except wings. All this team has is half ass "two way" players that can't score. The system is a bust, teams know how to defend against the wings now and we are doing nothing to change it. It's time for the team to head in a new direction, things are stale.

Teams that are not the Detroit Red Wings manage to find a way to bring young players along.

I've said this before, but I think a big part of the issue is consistently overvaluing veteran fourth line talent. The gap between a Drew Miller or Luke Glendening vs. a Mitch Callahan, Tomas Nosek, Joakim Andersson, Cory Emmerton, Fill In Your Favorite Fourth Line Energy Guy Who Plays a Little PK Here, whatever is just not that big, especially when you're only giving them 9-12 minutes per night. That's how being on the right edge of the global bell curve works -- the further you get down the ladder from "Sidney Crosby," the more numerous and interchangeable the options become and the more minuscule the separation is from player to player.

It's not like if we gave every minute Drew Miller would have played this year to, say, Nosek (just to pick a name out of a hat, not suggesting Nosek should be on the NHL roster) we'd go from being a 97-point team to a 91-point team. It probably would barely make a lick of difference either way.

And those guys are, for all intents and purposes, free to add whenever you want. You call up one of your two-way forwards from the farm, or you pluck a guy playing on an AHL-only deal somewhere (those all have built-in out clauses if an NHL team comes calling).

So from my perspective the hustle to re-sign Miller at more than $1 million per season before July even begins and picking up Steve Ott on day 1 of free agency is, in a word, senseless. Not necessarily saying that they have nothing to contribute, but the thing is that if you ever need a Drew Miller or Steve Ott-style player, you can always get one, usually for league minimum, usually without costing you any assets, whether the calendar says July or February.

Maybe the kids really aren't ready. That's possible. But if that's the case, let them come to camp with a real shot to win a job, see what they can do, and if after the preseason or a few weeks of regular season play you still think they need more seasoning, then you go out and pick up your defensive-minded fourth line vet. They'll still be available, trust me. Coming to camp with 18 forwards (or whatever) on 1-ways deals is not only completely unnecessary, it's counter-productive toward having the actual flexibility to promote from within when your prospects actually show that they're ready.
- Sven22

Sven. Love your post, as always. You always bring a very intelligent analysis and I usually agree with you.

I don't get the infatuation with Miller, glendenning, etc... As you say they are always available. Yet we we sign them to inflated contracts and they take up room in our 50 roster player number. Irritating to say the least. I think I read that Miller is the least productive player to get over 1000 minutes the last 2 or 3 years. Is his defense that good?

None.

Any player with more than 2 years of professional experience is eligible to be taken in the expansion draft -- whether those years are spent in the NHL, AHL or elsewhere.

For example, Larkin will be exempt but Mantha will need to be protected regardless of what league he plays in this year because he began his professional career in 2014-15.
- Sven22

Thanks. I haven't really read up/educated myself in regards to the expansion.