Yea that too. But he still could have demanded 10 mil a year from Tampa easily. He also could have gotten around 11 mil easy from a team like Toronto. I do think he took a little less to be on a contending team for a long time. I really do like Tampa aside from Callahan.
- drummer829

If they could have unloaded Callahan to Arizona before they took Dats.... holy (frank) I'd be pissed.

Why do you say that? Florida has no income tax so even though his gross salary is smaller at 8.5M he'll still be netting the same amount of money as he would have signing somewhere else for 10.5M-11M. His salary is smaller but he isn't really leaving any actual money on the table and he stays somewhere he is comfortable and will compete for a Cup for a long time.
- jaydogg1974

Toronto would have paid enough to counter that plus sum. Hell he could have gotten more from Tampa.

I still can't believe these trades today.... Wtf haha

anyone have a link for in the room final episode?

Sort of like Toronto fan casting Kulemin as a 30-goal scorer three years after the fact when he couldn't reach seven.

Yuk's career high is 17. No where close to 26.

http://oilers.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8476855
- Oneonta Penguin

apologies if youve already went into it, but im curious as to your thoughts on these trades.

If they could have unloaded Callahan to Arizona before they took Dats.... holy (frank) I'd be pissed.
- Guile

i feel like AZ wouldnt have wanted callahan as much because theyd actually have to pay out dollars to him haha

i feel like AZ wouldnt have wanted callahan as much because theyd actually have to pay out dollars to him haha
- stayinthefnnet

Had Dats not occurred... they would have had to pay something. Callahan would have given them a HUGE bounty in picks/prospects.

one thing is for sure. hall was far from the problem. eberle, RNH and yak needed trading before hall. if they were gonna trade hall it should have been for subban or some other high profile defensemen not (frank)ing adam larsson... jeff petry has better analytics than him...
- martox

Right now, if I'm Edmonton fan, I'm concerned relative to the values of RNH and Eberle if one is on the move. The standard is pretty much set for Yuk, a second or a third round pick. That is what he is worth.

If the market on Hall yields Larsson, which it appears like that is the market (surprised a Subban for Hall deal couldn't be done ... maybe Chiarelli knows Subban is a turd and didn't want him back), then trouble looms.

Colorado was shopping Barrie, but Colorado doesn't need Hall; Shattenkirk has one year left so not worth Edmonton's time to investigate a deal (Shattenkirk would bolt Edmonton after 1 year) ... Weber for Hall? Maybe Edmonton didn't want to trade Hall to another western conference team.

Right now, if I'm Edmonton fan, I'm concerned relative to the values of RNH and Eberle if one is on the move. The standard is pretty much set for Yuk, a second or a third round pick. That is what he is worth.

If the market on Hall yields Larsson, which it appears like that is the market (surprised a Subban for Hall deal couldn't be done ... maybe Chiarelli knows Subban is a turd and didn't want him back), then trouble looms.

Colorado was shopping Barrie, but Colorado doesn't need Hall; Shattenkirk has one year left so not worth Edmonton's time to investigate a deal (Shattenkirk would bolt Edmonton after 1 year) ... Weber for Hall? Maybe Edmonton didn't want to trade Hall to another western conference team.
- Oneonta Penguin

Yeah... Edmonton might decide to stop tanking on the last year or two of Hall's contract

apologies if youve already went into it, but im curious as to your thoughts on these trades.
- stayinthefnnet

Stamkos - 8.5 AAV for the next 8 years is a bit much,e specially the 10.5 for the first five (sorry, that is ridiculous). That contract put Tampa into cap hell. They need to unload Callahan and Carle as soon as possible as well as Bishop. Still need to sign Killorn and Kucherov as RFAs this year ... won't go into Johnson, Palat, Vasy and Hedman next year. I would have contemplated letting Stamkos walk.

Subban for Weber - P.K. must have been a real turd in which Bergen wanted to ditch. I'm a big fan of Weber's, but he is three year's older. If your second best trade chip is Subban and I'm Montreal, I'm looking for multiple assets, one in which brings a VERY GOOD FORWARD back. That is their biggest need. Instead, they trade D for older D and don't help the deficiencies. Crowd favorite for crowd favorite. I know Subban was popular in Montreal, but Weber was in Nashville.

Hall for Larsson - finally Edmonton got off its ass and made a deal involving a core player for D. I guess the market spoke on Hall's value. I was thinking something else was going to Edmonton, like a first or a second. Straight up though. Great deal for NJ. They improved. Larsson will be a very good Dman IMO. Is he a true number one now? Nope. But, they added a young competent Dman, which brings their total to one, or two depending if you think the Swede is competent now (some don't, some do). Nurse isn't competent.

Felt a deal involving Hall and Subban makes more sense for both parties.

Curious if I'm way off base but I think I'd prefer hall to stamkos at this point in this career (without thinking of term or salary). I probably haven't seen enough of either play. I think hall is definitely tied up in that great second tier of hockey stars. (After Crosby mcdavid ovechkin Kane). A face of the franchise offensive Dynamo who runs your first line even though he isn't a center man.

Toronto would have paid enough to counter that plus sum. Hell he could have gotten more from Tampa.
- kgrpitt

I admire players that put winning over squeezing every last dollar out of a contract. Every "rumored" destination is no lock to be a contender any time soon. Tampa is going to be a top team for years to come.

I admire players that put winning over squeezing every last dollar out of a contract. Every "rumored" destination is no lock to be a contender any time soon. Tampa is going to be a top team for years to come.
- madmike71

Detroit could have competed... EK claimed the Islanders... they could have.

So Chiarelli is a bad GM for firing a guy 10 years ago who was a young and inexperienced coach and had a 29-37 record? That would be like calling GMJR out 10 years from now if Mike Johnston comes back into the league and has great success.
- jaydogg1974

No, Chiarelli is a bad GM for his body of work in Boston (Kessel, Seguin, et. al.) and now in Edmonton (Hall, Reinhart). Context, dude. Unless you think Chiarelli has been making good moves all along, then never mind.

Detroit could have competed... EK claimed the Islanders... they could have.
- Guile

Detroit has holes. Their D is suspect. Tending is average. Playoff team, sure. True contender. I don't think so.

Islanders... Yes, I'd say they're the closest. Not without issues however. New York's B-team. Lowest drawing team in the league. Playing in Brooklyn on crappy ice. Ownership is meh.

Honestly the Tampa situation is pretty awesome all things considered. To me the only choice would have been TO or Tampa.

They could use the 26 he scored in his rookie year... if we're you know cherry picking stats.
- stackthepads

what world do you live in where Yak scored 26? He's pretty much been on steady decline. 17 his rookie yr...A massive 1 more goal than Cullen had as a 4C. Yeah go get him JR!

Stamkos - 8.5 AAV for the next 8 years is a bit much,e specially the 10.5 for the first five (sorry, that is ridiculous). That contract put Tampa into cap hell. They need to unload Callahan and Carle as soon as possible as well as Bishop. Still need to sign Killorn and Kucherov as RFAs this year ... won't go into Johnson, Palat, Vasy and Hedman next year. I would have contemplated letting Stamkos walk.

Subban for Weber - P.K. must have been a real turd in which Bergen wanted to ditch. I'm a big fan of Weber's, but he is three year's older. If your second best trade chip is Subban and I'm Montreal, I'm looking for multiple assets, one in which brings a VERY GOOD FORWARD back. That is their biggest need. Instead, they trade D for older D and don't help the deficiencies. Crowd favorite for crowd favorite. I know Subban was popular in Montreal, but Weber was in Nashville.

Hall for Larsson - finally Edmonton got off its ass and made a deal involving a core player for D. I guess the market spoke on Hall's value. I was thinking something else was going to Edmonton, like a first or a second. Straight up though. Great deal for NJ. They improved. Larsson will be a very good Dman IMO. Is he a true number one now? Nope. But, they added a young competent Dman, which brings their total to one, or two depending if you think the Swede is competent now (some don't, some do). Nurse isn't competent.

Felt a deal involving Hall and Subban makes more sense for both parties.
- Oneonta Penguin

the stamkos deal, thats a tough one. i think they might have been better off letting him walk, just because i think they can construct a team with great depth up and down the lineup. but, i dont think its a bad deal at all. the actual dollars doesnt enter the discussion a ton for me. 8 years at 8.5 isn't awful. and he did leave money on the table for them im sure. to keep him probably saved face for all. so, in a vacuum i think its a win for TB, but if it forces them to lose hedman down the line, woof. so its too early for me to really call it.

i HATE the deal for MTL. i dont know what the reason they want him out so bad was. there has to be one. and maybe thats the driving force, and so that obviously skews things. but sans that variable, i think its bad for MTL. and im a weber fan.

the NJ deal was a coup for them too.edmonton had to make a move. but man, i cannot believe thats the best they can do. its awful. youre higher or larsson than i am, but i do still think he does fit what they need. but to move hall, who i would have thought had tremendous value, for anything less than either a surefire stud or a package with multiple parts? brutal. same thing for MTL. I would have sought a package of multiple parts from someone.

rare to see blockbusters, and i just cant believe they were both so one sided.

TBL gave the Pens a run W/O Stamkos.....I think this was dumb.

TBL gave the Pens a run W/O Stamkos.....I think this was dumb.
- sammy87

They gave them a run predominantly because their tender played out of his mind. If you go back and watch all of those games, you realize how badly the Pens out-played everybody but Vasi.

However they will certainly be trading some talented players pretty soon 'cause they can't fit them under the cap. I see a little bit of a Chicago situation coming.

They gave them a run predominantly because their tender played out of his mind. If you go back and watch all of those games, you realize how badly the Pens out-played everybody but Vasi.

However they will certainly be trading some talented players pretty soon 'cause they can't fit them under the cap. I see a little bit of a Chicago situation coming.
- madmike71

Yeah I get that, but Druoin looked like a stud. Id be more concerned with his future over Stamkos when you factor in his health.

Right now, if I'm Edmonton fan, I'm concerned relative to the values of RNH and Eberle if one is on the move. The standard is pretty much set for Yuk, a second or a third round pick. That is what he is worth.

If the market on Hall yields Larsson, which it appears like that is the market (surprised a Subban for Hall deal couldn't be done ... maybe Chiarelli knows Subban is a turd and didn't want him back), then trouble looms.

Colorado was shopping Barrie, but Colorado doesn't need Hall; Shattenkirk has one year left so not worth Edmonton's time to investigate a deal (Shattenkirk would bolt Edmonton after 1 year) ... Weber for Hall? Maybe Edmonton didn't want to trade Hall to another western conference team.
- Oneonta Penguin

Well any team could use Taylor Hall really...but it is fair to say the NJ has absolute garbage on defense now. Crazy because they won the trade by a landslide but I'm not sure they're a much better team because of it. It's a similiar position we would have been in if we traded Maatta. Shero better have a few more moves up his sleeve to shore up defense.

Yeah I get that, but Druoin looked like a stud. Id be more concerned with his future over Stamkos when you factor in his health.
- sammy87

I don't think Drouin is a long term Bolt. I think he'll be a pain in the ass to sign as an RFA.

Well any team could use Taylor Hall really...but it is fair to say the NJ has absolute garbage on defense now. Crazy because they won the trade by a landslide but I'm not sure they're a much better team because of it. It's a similiar position we would have been in if we traded Maatta. Shero better have a few more moves up his sleeve to shore up defense.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

The Devils have a couple of years to figure out their defense. They probably weren't going to contend for a Cup anyway, so might as well grab an elite player while giving up a non-elite player. Even though the Pens are in Cup contention, I still would have traded Maatta for Hall in a second. Dumo for Hall is a more difficult decision but I think I still do that.

Check this out from the Edmonton blogger: From 18 years old he was ready to compete against men and he was a 5v5 performer. Over the last 4 years, Taylor Hall is 3rd among all NHL forwards with 2.49 Points per 60 minutes (minimum of 1000 minutes). Hall is among the elite of the NHL’s elite. Truly a unique talent and coming from a garbage club we know he can create his offense without any help from the defense.

As for RFAs, isn't there some stupid unwritten rule among GMs to not offer-sheet another team's RFAs? I like the players RW mentions, but does obtaining them via offer sheet mean the Pens would be blackballed from future trades? I think it's a great route as I don't value draft picks as much as most, largely due to the low probability of success, especially when you are drafting at the end of the round like the Pens have been.

Why do you say that? Florida has no income tax so even though his gross salary is smaller at 8.5M he'll still be netting the same amount of money as he would have signing somewhere else for 10.5M-11M. His salary is smaller but he isn't really leaving any actual money on the table and he stays somewhere he is comfortable and will compete for a Cup for a long time.
- jaydogg1974

Average state income tax in the US is 3%, plus you can claim union dues (in PA anyway, not going to claim to be a tax expert). Therefore the state income argument in the US is null and void. I just looked up Ontario it has a 13% state tax which is larger than any in the US, but it is still about half of the 25% drop you and others are claiming. Granted Canada has tax and dollar value troubles but players are paid in US money and not Canadian dollars so he would be receiving approximately $15M Canadian instead of $10M US thereby reducing some of that state tax burden.

Sorry I just don't buy the state tax argument, way overblown.