One thing about goalies, too: I have been reading pushback on where goalies are taken, including the hottest of hot takes that because the Flyers took Hart at 48, now we may never see goalies taken in the first round again

OK. I don't know that for sure; maybe there is a shift in how people view the acquisition of goalies.

I just remember this story: There were some folks who were fans of the Habs, back in 2005, who were pissed that the Habs, coming off some weaker seasons, took a goaltender in the first round, No. 5 overall. They said all the things that people that I have been reading more and more: We need help everywhere. We already have a goalie in Theodore who has won a Hart Trophy and a Vezina Trophy. Are you insane?

The goalie they picked was Carey Price.

Now, that doesn't mean every goalie you draft high is gonna be Carey Price. They won't. They bust, just like every other position.

I'm just saying that Martin Brodeur was a goalie picked in the first round. Developing first-round bias, or even second-round bias, on goaltenders...that's just crazy to me

Exactly, people seem to think high end talent goes through the draft. You need to draft whats available and what is best for the team. Unfortunately having a roster of 12 40 goal scorers will never happen.

First priority is drafting kids who can just play in the NHL then hoping they can have an impact that allows the team to win. I would love for the Flyers to draft a Patrice Bergeron or David Krejci over a kid who has dazzling highlights, but can't stay in the NHL.
- Glak18

No one said they want a skilled bust over Krejci or Bergeron. They were both 2nd rounders too, so I don't understand your argument. They were high ceiling players; they just happened to be high floor too. Not unlike our own Rubtsov. And high end talent does exist beyond the first 2 rounds -- it's all about identifying it and projecting it. Or a willingness to be less judgmental. And luck. But when you have that drafting mindset, you only up your chances.

I know Tomahawk wasn't saying take a bunch of no risk players with the best chance of making it to the NHL...even if it is only as 4th liners. And then work with it and call it a success. If you want another Gostisbehere, you have to gamble. 1 Gostisbehere or Benn or Klingberg or Gaudreau or Pavelski is worth 50 Ryan White's. And I do think Hogberg, Laczynski, Bernhardt are risk/reward gambles, so Hexy didn't just play it safe. Realistically you need a couple safe, floor players each draft. That shouldn't be all you take from rounds 3 on.

Just what the Flyers need...let's sign him for 7 million for 5 years!
- Glak18

Only if he agrees to a NMC of course.

No one said they want a skilled bust over Krejci or Bergeron. They were both 2nd rounders too, so I don't understand your argument. They were ceiling players. And high end talent does exist beyond the first 2 rounds -- it's all about identifying it and projecting it and believing there is a gem deep down. Or a willingness to be less judgmental.

I know Tomahawk wasn't saying take a bunch of no risk players with the best chance of making it to the NHL...even if it is only as 4th liners. And then work with it. If you want another Gostisbehere, sometimes you have to gamble. And I think Hogberg, Laczynski, Bernhardt are risk/reward gambles, so Hexy didn't just play it safe.
- Mononoke

I think his draft strategy has been pretty consistent. He won't rule out drafting smaller forwards but they have to possess exceptional skill in konency. Otherwise he's going with size and the ability to forecheck. His dmen all can skate and pass he hasn't drafted a stay at home dman in now three drafts.

LWOS gives the Flyers draft an A.

http://lastwordonsports.c...-draft-grades-part-three/
- Feanor

Thanks for posting this and hopefully they are right. TOR also with an A due mostly to the Rychel trade.


Also for those saying Sanhiem was a better pick then DeAngelo because he was traded they point out that the DeAngelo trade was terrible and he is coming along just fine winning the 2015 CHL Defenceman of the year, and having a very good AHL campaign this season. The point is, it's too early to say if passing on DeAngelo was the better pick at this point. Might have been but the trade means very little- need to wait a couple of years.

Anyone else feel that some form of racism is at play for all those outraged at the idea of trading Subban?

The reactions to it are much different than those of players like him but white skin. It feels like people are using this moment to display they're not racist.

All players get some type of rumors around them. Subban is a good defenseman, but holy poop he isn't Paul Coffey or Chris Pronger.

Coffey was traded and after a career full of trade rumors, Pronger was moved a few times.

Treat him like everyone else because, after all, he is a human like the rest of us.

/soapbox

Anyone else feel that some form of racism is at play for all those outraged at the idea of trading Subban?

The reactions to it are much different than those of players like him but white skin. It feels like people are using this moment to display they're not racist.

All players get some type of rumors around them. Subban is a good defenseman, but holy poop he isn't Paul Coffey or Chris Pronger.

Coffey was traded and after a career full of trade rumors, Pronger was moved a few times.

Treat him like everyone else because, after all, he is a human like the rest of us.

/soapbox
- MikesPillBottle

Race issues that are fueled by western "bought" media are a great way for the peons to be kept distrated for who is really (frank)ing them up the ass ( the 1% ), and to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. This is a hockey site, and thats all I'm going to say about that issue.

Thanks for posting this and hopefully they are right. TOR also with an A due mostly to the Rychel trade.


Also for those saying Sanhiem was a better pick then DeAngelo because he was traded they point out that the DeAngelo trade was terrible and he is coming along just fine winning the 2015 CHL Defenceman of the year, and having a very good AHL campaign this season. The point is, it's too early to say if passing on DeAngelo was the better pick at this point. Might have been but the trade means very little- need to wait a couple of years.
- coffee junkie

DeAngelo being dumped off so quickly after his first season is a red flag after he was such a controversial draft prospect.

DeAngelo being dumped off so quickly after his first season is a red flag after he was such a controversial draft prospect.
- bmeltzer

Bill. Don't see you too much online at the same time, and at times our views may differ but just have to say thanks for all the coverage. Not always easy when working but your blogs are a daily visit.

Rock on hooligan.

Ok, but you didn't really answer my question. It was a legitimate question. I'm not trying to belittle you in anyway, I assure you. All things aside, I just don't know why you, a regular person, would ever be concerned just because the management staff of a pro sports team is not on the same page as an internet forum?
- mochoson

Because as a fan I'm invested emotionally in the team. Fans with a relative high team identity - and most of us here qualify - process team news differently on a cognitive level. How does the information alter out perception about the attainment of team goals prior to the information being received. Quite simply, we evaluate whether moves the team makes, the team's successes and failures moves the needle closer to or further away from a championship.

Where it becomes unhealthy is when a fan transfers team identity to self-identify and allows the relative successes or failures of the team to color his own life. You seem to be implying that here, ironically to a more infrequent poster.

I'm not saying we're dumbies, but that shouldn't concern you? These guys makes 6-7 figure salaries to do what they do. They're smarter than all of us. Sure, there's situations where some executives dont seem very smart in hindsight, but this is a business. Business involves risks. Not to mention, drafts are crap shoots. It's all opinions. Opinions differ greatly between the 30 teams. Why would an internet forum be any different?
- mochoson

I wouldn't say they are smarter than us per se. They are much more knowledgeable about hockey and have better access to information. That doesn't make them infallible. And the more you believe that a draft is truly a crapshoot, then success is random and a factor of luck and strategy and information would give a player no advantage in the outcome. In other words, you or I could statistically do as well as Hextall over a long period of time. Actually, drafts are not strictly games of chance tho.

He couldn't adapt any further for the team to get the team two more wins in 2010? What more was he suppose to do?
- mochoson

Holmgren failed to adapt to changing economics which stressed cheaper, team-developed assets. He continually out-negotiated himself and gave away the farm in contracts. In short, he built a strong core but never surrounded them with sustainable talent pool. 2010 was as much peaking at the right time and hot goaltending. And frankly I'd love to have the forward corps from 2010. It's exactly my point.

Again, I am not seeking to belittle you in any form or fashion, but these statements just don't correlate with reality. Hakstol has said literally the exact opposite since basically the trade deadline. Our first 3 forward picks this year are all skaters who are big, skilled and can skate.
- mochoson

Skill is a qualitative concept. Now that the role of enforcer is mostly gone, anybody who plays in the league has some level of skill. I'm looking for more elite level vision and playmaking abilities or a knack for goal scoring. Jsaq turned me on to Kunin. Check out his highlight reel relative to Rubstovs.

I feel like you're trying to correlate a mostly unskilled roster that Hakstol/Hextall inherited and its early succes to an organizational philosophy. Just because theygot a playoff birth out of a largely untalented roster does mean last years team is the norm.

I don't even think we an fully evaluate this Hakstol/Hextall combo yet. We'll need years to do so.

This is what I dont get. "They clearly dont"? What do you call drafting German Rubtsov? Sure seems to me that, if all goes well, he slots in the second line at some point in the next 2-3 years.

We can still achieve the bold for next year even with Couturier in the #2 spot. We accomplish this by signing another defensive minded center to take heavy minutes away from G and Coots and adding more skill to the wings.

Believe me, I hear everything your saying and dont necessarily disagree. I'm just not understanding all the pessimism, I guess?
- mochoson

Because if you believe Hextally, they specifically targeted GR as top of their list. Most pundits, knowledgeable ones, had other players with more offensive upside but less well rounded. Hexy clearly was willing to sacrifice some potential upside on offensive for a player who grades out higher on D. That's why I said they clearly don't.

Honestly, I just want to be entertained.

Winning and that generally go hand in hand, but its not all about winning a championship for me.

Easy to please.

Panotch passive aggressively wrote an article about passing on Bellows for German Rubs. I think it's likely they would've taken Rubby at 18 and not looked back, but they didn't just pass on him. They got Laberge too -- another top 6, even top line, potential kid who was absolutely 1st round in talent. He (purposefully) avoided directly saying they got Laberge as part of a 2-for-1 instead of Bellows. Best line: "He’s not Kieffer Bellows, a 50-goal left winger the Flyers should have taken." Subtle, Tim, subtle.

Panotch already has a list of angry, accusatory questions to ask each kid in 3 years. He's gonna give them the stink twitch.

Bill. Don't see you too much online at the same time, and at times our views may differ but just have to say thanks for all the coverage. Not always easy when working but your blogs are a daily visit.

Rock on hooligan.
- flyer_nutter

Thank you

Honestly, I just want to be entertained.

Winning and that generally go hand in hand, but its not all about winning a championship for me.

Easy to please.
- flyer_nutter

The reason we watch is to be entertained. The last few years have been pretty meh.

I would rather win 9-8 then win 2-1 in triple OT

Panotch passive aggressively wrote an article about passing on Bellows for German Rubs. I think it's likely they would've taken Rubby at 18 and not looked back, but they didn't just pass on him. They got Laberge too -- another top 6, even top line, potential kid who was absolutely 1st round in talent. He (purposefully) avoided directly saying they got Laberge as part of a 2-for-1 instead of Bellows. Best line: "He’s not Kieffer Bellows, a 50-goal left winger the Flyers should have taken." Subtle, Tim, subtle.

Panotch already has a list of angry, accusatory questions to ask each kid in 3 years. He's gonna give them the stink twitch.
- Mononoke

I've seen pretty much nothing of these kids than youtube clips. I'll trust Bill when he says that he thinks Rub was the better choice, in particular that Bellows is a one dimensional dude.

Will say I think its better to pick the guy you have to teach how to play defense to, than a guy you have to teach offensive skill to.

Edit: I do wonder how Rubs will handle it (idiot reporters). Russian and knowing next to no english.

The reason we watch is to be entertained. The last few years have been pretty meh.

I would rather win 9-8 then win 2-1 in triple OT
- MikesPillBottle

I understand the thought process and I won't lie: I do wish there was more scoring in the game. I like 50-goal scorers and multiple 100-point seasons and long point streaks

But it's the coaches, man. They aren't having that. They know that job security is enhanced if they can control the game, and once Jacques Lemaire proved you can win a Cup by actively trying not to score but instead waiting for the other team to make a mistake...we were done for.

I remember reading back in 1995 that if the league didn't step in and ban the trap and interference in the neutral zone, there was going to be a price to pay. And you saw scoring drop almost every season

What was worse: You saw guys who could score but who weren't the best defensive players get basically ran out of the game. Ray Ferraro talks about that all the time, how it makes no sense that some coaches worship guys who can defend but can't score but loathe guys who can score but aren't as good defensively

I don't know...the goaltenders' size has increased, players are bigger and faster. I don't know how you get scoring back up -- you get a goalie with a .905 SVPCT today, and that guy might not have a job in the league.

Back in the day, a .905 could mean you were in contention for a Vezina

I've seen pretty much nothing of these kids than youtube clips. I'll trust Bill when he says that he thinks Rub was the better choice, in particular that Bellows is a one dimensional dude.

Will say I think its better to pick the guy you have to teach how to play defense to, than a guy you have to teach offensive skill to.

Edit: I do wonder how Rubs will handle it (idiot reporters). Russian and knowing next to no english.
- flyer_nutter

I don't think Bellows is 1-dimensional, but he's certainly a far cry from Rubtsov's ability to control the game in all 3-zones. I would've been thrilled to grab Bellows. But would you rather have 1 kid with top 6 potential or 2 for the price of 1?

Rubtsov is not offensively incapable. He led his junior team in p/pg by a good margin. All while being shackled to the toughest shutdown minutes and usage. He's more of a playmaker, but it's not unrealistic to say he has a ceiling of a 50-60 point Selke player. Is that preferable to a 50-60 point sheltered PWF, even if he scores 10 or more goals? Not to me. Oh and we got Laberge who himself could be a 50-60 point guy. Trade was a slam dunk imo.

CHL import draft pick order in case anybody wants to know what team picks Rubtsov should he want to go this route.

http://chl.rinknetcloud.com/2016/results.htm

CHL import draft pick order in case anybody wants to know what team picks Rubtsov should he want to go this route.

http://chl.rinknetcloud.com/2016/results.htm
- ob18

Victoriaville.

Victoriaville.
- Mononoke

If I had to guess, I'd say Guelph

If I had to guess, I'd say Guelph
- ob18

It's a pretty bad list at the top. The fact that he already has a contract with KHL that sounds pretty airtight could force him lower. And based on Hexy's reaction, it sounds too airtight to get out of even if he goes to a good spot. We shall see.

anyone have video of hexy dropping the f bombs at the draft?

It's a pretty bad list at the top. The fact that he already has a contract with KHL that sounds pretty airtight could force him lower. And based on Hexy's reaction, it sounds too airtight to get out of even if he goes to a good spot. We shall see.
- Mononoke

Could have sworn I saw something saying he had an out clause & wanted to come over.

Could have sworn I saw something saying he had an out clause & wanted to come over.
- ob18

Hexy in his interview was very skeptical. Not sure there is an out clause. According to Bill, he'd have to be outright released by the team, with compensation. Given he's one of Russia's young stars, you have to imagine they aren't so eager. Hexy kept saying that if he comes to NA, great, but they don't expect it and took him perfectly fine with him playing in the KHL. He'll get good minutes there anyway to appease him.

What's preferable: going to a poop junior team here or playing perhaps middle 6 KHL minutes?

Honestly, I just want to be entertained.

Winning and that generally go hand in hand, but its not all about winning a championship for me.

Easy to please.
- flyer_nutter

I agree. I want a capable team in all three zones but the defense first mentality with a lack of scoring sucks. I don't mind living off the memory that is the broad street bullies.