That's crazy to me. Analytics are important, but should never trump reality.

I figured Kulikov would have had a monster return.
- MikesPillBottle

Trump and reality in the same sentence?

Trump and reality in the same sentence?
- DaveofYork

I hate how the word trump will be phased out of existence. Pinnacle is going to suffer.

Showing your maturity so early in the morning. Must be hard.
- coffee junkie

For an off color attempt at curtailing hyperbolic pessimism? It's a joke, guy.

You should join him for nap time.

To get a top line winger in this draft that would be ready in less then 3 years, they would have had to be an awful team. Which is pretty tough with the goaltending the Flyers have, and G and Jake and the rest of the team.

Ron may have to make a move in UFA to do this.

Not sure if he finds someone he likes enough to pay the UFA market price, or just tries to make smart upgrades to the bottom six and hope for better years from Laughton, Cousins, and the other young guys.

I think Read if not traded maybe could rebound (big maybe) and Laughton on wing with some PP time will be a lot better.

That's crazy to me. Analytics are important, but should never trump reality.

I figured Kulikov would have had a monster return.
- MikesPillBottle

Probably also had to do with Kulikov having one year left on his deal and having Ekblad due for a sizeable bump.

Kulikov is a nice, solid second pair guy. He's going to help Buffalo.

I would have liked to see us draft Bellows (since I've read so much about him being a pretty complete and well rounded player) and possibly a trade for Shattenkirk.

Price depending of course. Not upset w/ the draft though. Although you could see Hexy getting pissed so you know at least one thing didn't go his way...

It worries you that the GM of a professional sports team didn't value the same players as posters on an internet forum?
- mochoson

Oh, excuse me. I thought I was on a fan site that existed solely for the purpose of providing a forum for fans to express their opinions. My bad.

Sorry, but in this thread you guys are debating Kekäläinen's moves. I think he made a mistake btw. How many jokes have been made (rightly so) at Sweeney's expense? And there was a time when most of us cried foul that Homer didn't win a GM of the Year award for the Carter/Richards trades.

The fact is....Homer really started off well as a GM but couldn't adapt enough to get the team over the final hump. Andy Reid was a very good coach who let a few stubborn assumptions - that he could win with a system that didn't require star talent at WR - potentially cost him a Super Bowl. He didn't make it until he adapted.

Hakstol had a very good 1st year as a coach, and early indications point to him having a successful career. Same with Hextall as a GM. But that doesn't mean that their approach as it is right now is absolutely perfect, and that they won't need to make adjustments along the way.

Hakstol clearly values hard-working, two-way forwards. I personally believe he overplayed the Ryan White's and VDV's a little too much, but there wasn't a lot of alternatives either. But reading between the lines on Hextall's moves this offseason so far and Hakstol's system, I worry that their system and approach devalues highly skilled, offensive-minded forwards too much and tilts a little too far to the defensive side of the ledger.

My fear is that as a team they will have to work too hard to score goals, and question whether that's sustainable over a long season and playoffs. We're all assuming that they ran out of gas because they got too far in the hole initially. There is truth to that. We're all assuming that having a Defense that can move the puck quickly out of the d zone will generate a lot more offense. There's truth to that.

But I think it's fair to point out that teams focused on shutting down G and Ghost and the offense struggled at times. I would prefer a more dynamic 2nd line that could relieve the pressure. I still believe the team would have been better off with a dynamic, offensively-focused 2nd line center and Couts as the two-way 3C who can score and defend. They clearly don't.

I'm not expecting Hextall to call me and change course after a 10 minute conversation. But I am allowed to have an opinion about it. And occasionally an internet poster can actually be right about something.

Seems like some of the old regulars have cloned themselves to start posting more.
Maybe it's a after son thing like the draft this year

Oh, excuse me. I thought I was on a fan site that existed solely for the purpose of providing a forum for fans to express their opinions. My bad.

I'm not expecting Hextall to call me and change course after a 10 minute conversation. But I am allowed to have an opinion about it. And occasionally an internet poster can actually be right about something.
- TheGreat28

Ok, but you didn't really answer my question. It was a legitimate question. I'm not trying to belittle you in anyway, I assure you. All things aside, I just don't know why you, a regular person, would ever be concerned just because the management staff of a pro sports team is not on the same page as an internet forum?

I'm not saying we're dumbies, but that shouldn't concern you? These guys makes 6-7 figure salaries to do what they do. They're smarter than all of us. Sure, there's situations where some executives dont seem very smart in hindsight, but this is a business. Business involves risks. Not to mention, drafts are crap shoots. It's all opinions. Opinions differ greatly between the 30 teams. Why would an internet forum be any different?

The fact is....Homer really started off well as a GM but couldn't adapt enough to get the team over the final hump.

He couldn't adapt any further for the team to get the team two more wins in 2010? What more was he suppose to do?

But reading between the lines on Hextall's moves this offseason so far and Hakstol's system, I worry that their system and approach devalues highly skilled, offensive-minded forwards too much and tilts a little too far to the defensive side of the ledger.

Again, I am not seeking to belittle you in any form or fashion, but these statements just don't correlate with reality. Hakstol has said literally the exact opposite since basically the trade deadline. Our first 3 forward picks this year are all skaters who are big, skilled and can skate.

I feel like you're trying to correlate a mostly unskilled roster that Hakstol/Hextall inherited and its early succes to an organizational philosophy. Just because theygot a playoff birth out of a largely untalented roster does mean last years team is the norm.

I don't even think we an fully evaluate this Hakstol/Hextall combo yet. We'll need years to do so.

But I think it's fair to point out that teams focused on shutting down G and Ghost and the offense struggled at times. I would prefer a more dynamic 2nd line that could relieve the pressure. I still believe the team would have been better off with a dynamic, offensively-focused 2nd line center and Couts as the two-way 3C who can score and defend. They clearly don't.

This is what I dont get. "They clearly dont"? What do you call drafting German Rubtsov? Sure seems to me that, if all goes well, he slots in the second line at some point in the next 2-3 years.

We can still achieve the bold for next year even with Couturier in the #2 spot. We accomplish this by signing another defensive minded center to take heavy minutes away from G and Coots and adding more skill to the wings.

Believe me, I hear everything your saying and dont necessarily disagree. I'm just not understanding all the pessimism, I guess?

I think we should be really exploring the trade market for a top 6 LW.
Taylor hall would be my biggest target. If a deal could be made without moving provorov, (which I think it can be) we should seiously consider it. I know it's gonna cost a fortune but this team needs a pure goal scorer who is young enough to grow with the teams prospects.
Overall I liked hexy first 3 picks. I wouldve liked a higher risk higher reward type players as far as offensive upside with the other picks but I'm not positive they were even there. I think we missed big with not snagging debrincat. If he was there we should've moved back up after lebarge and grabbed him.

Ok, but you didn't really answer my question. It was a legitimate question. I'm not trying to belittle you in anyway, I assure you. All things aside, I just don't know why you, a regular person, would ever be concerned just because the management staff of a pro sports team is not on the same page as an internet forum?

I'm not saying we're dumbies, but that shouldn't concern you? These guys makes 6-7 figure salaries to do what they do. They're smarter than all of us. Sure, there's situations where some executives dont seem very smart in hindsight, but this is a business. Business involves risks. Not to mention, drafts are crap shoots. It's all opinions. Opinions differ greatly between the 30 teams. Why would an internet forum be any different?



He couldn't adapt any further for the team to get the team two more wins in 2010? What more was he suppose to do?


Again, I am not seeking to belittle you in any form or fashion, but these statements just don't correlate with reality. Hakstol has said literally the exact opposite since basically the trade deadline. Our first 3 forward picks this year are all skaters who are big, skilled and can skate.

I feel like you're trying to correlate a mostly unskilled roster that Hakstol/Hextall inherited and its early succes to an organizational philosophy. Just because theygot a playoff birth out of a largely untalented roster does mean last years team is the norm.

I don't even think we an fully evaluate this Hakstol/Hextall combo yet. We'll need years to do so.



This is what I dont get. "They clearly dont"? What do you call drafting German Rubtsov? Sure seems to me that, if all goes well, he slots in the second line at some point in the next 2-3 years.

We can still achieve the bold for next year even with Couturier in the #2 spot. We accomplish this by signing another defensive minded center to take heavy minutes away from G and Coots and adding more skill to the wings.

Believe me, I hear everything your saying and dont necessarily disagree. I'm just not understanding all the pessimism, I guess?
- mochoson

I have to run to the airport but will respond in a bit.

I think we should be really exploring the trade market for a top 6 LW.
Taylor hall would be my biggest target. If a deal could be made without moving provorov, (which I think it can be) we should seiously consider it. I know it's gonna cost a fortune but this team needs a pure goal scorer who is young enough to grow with the teams prospects.
Overall I liked hexy first 3 picks. I wouldve liked a higher risk higher reward type players as far as offensive upside with the other picks but I'm not positive they were even there. I think we missed big with not snagging debrincat. If he was there we should've moved back up after lebarge and grabbed him.
- irishmiller33

It makes no sense to me to pay a ton for Hall. No doubt he a good young player but not worth setting the team back 3-5 years just to get him.

That's crazy to me. Analytics are important, but should never trump reality.
- MikesPillBottle

some people don't get this

Not attacking your post; I can see your points. I wish there was a LW in the system who screamed "first-line difference maker"

But I guess, from what I saw and understood, outside of the first three picks, that kind of offensive talent wasn't there. While certainly there were others with offensive ability, I guess I didn't see anyone other than the 5-7 kid who dripped offense and I guess I am skeptical about that kid making it. Everyone else had clear red flags, from what I read

I liked what they did, from what I understood of the picks. I don't think that makes me or anyone else a lemming. They needed size and people who could move. Guys who, if they work out, can get in on a forecheck and take away time and space.

And I'm one of those people who believes you take goalies where you have them rated. So I guess I just don't have the issues with this draft, but I do understand your points. Time will tell
- AllInForFlyers

lemmings should be seen and not heard

It makes no sense to me to pay a ton for Hall. No doubt he a good young player but not worth setting the team back 3-5 years just to get him.
- opeth_pa

A trade for hall wouldnt set us back 3 years. The only thing that would stop this trade is our lack of a number 1/2 defender available for trade.

OK, I will be the lone dissenting poster, but honestly I'm not thrilled with this draft. It's funny, but I can't help but wonder what the prevailing opinion would be if Holmgren picked this same draft pool. Big, gritty two-way forwards with 3rd line upside? Yup, typical Flyers draft.

Here's the reality. There are two dynamic forwards - G and TK, who can truly create offense for themselves and their linemates. Two. And I worry about TK and his size relative to his playing style. And G is going to be three years older before this team can really compete.
- TheGreat28

Did Voracek retire?

Did Voracek retire?
- Feanor

He's not dynamic or elite. Get with the program.

And here I was thinking assists were a measure of creating offense for your teammates.

Egg all over my face.

Saw this on HFB - PP points in 15-16:

Bunnaman- 3
Twarynski- 5
Salinitri- 3

lemmings should be seen and not heard
- -davies-

LOL

Saw this on HFB - PP points in 15-16:

Bunnaman- 3
Twarynski- 5
Salinitri- 3
- Feanor

Echo didn't play a leading role on his team. In terms of ES primary points/60 he was right behind Nylander and slightly ahead of McLeod. Hopefully with a bigger role next season, he can do some damage on the scoresheet and show an upswing.

Echo didn't play a leading role on his team. In terms of ES primary points/60 he was right behind Nylander and slightly ahead of McLeod. Hopefully with a bigger role next season, he can do some damage on the scoresheet and show an upswing.
- Jsaquella

I mean, they're kids. Some of them aren't even 18 yet. I never lose too much sleep over prospects, because we all know the metrics: Better to be prolific than not, better to have a projectable frame than be fully developed, etc.

But the reality is this: They drafted 10 times over the weekend. We'll be lucky if three of them become NHLers. That's no different than if Detroit drafted, Chicago drafted, the Kings or whoever.

The vast majority of these kids, quite frankly, had the highlight of their lives on Friday and Saturday. That's just reality, and if the Flyers can pull Rubstov, Laberge and anybody else through, they've done well

That's really not fair and you sound like that jerk with the Star Wars obsession.

I agree with JSqa and Great28 that they needed a player with a high offensive ceiling and didn't get that player (e.g. Abramov, DeBrincat, etc.). I am overall happy and like many others would give them a 'B.' It's not a bad score but it isn't a great one either. It was a solid draft just not the fireworks we have been waiting for. If you replaced Hart with Abramov (he was still on the table) I would have been ecstatic. 'A' territory. That isn't to say I am dissapointed with Hart, just that the team NEEDED a type of player and didn't get him. Also I agree that we should have picked up Rychel. Even if for more then the Leafs paid for him. He has potential, size, grit and is at a prime age for this team.
- coffee junkie

I think that people are just overreacting. Hextall and his scouts have way more of all these guys than we have, and have spoken personally with them and their coaches.

I dont think that Hexy is against drafting skilled offensive players. But in this draft, he preferred other players than some people on here, and I'm sure he has his reasons. So can we please let these guys try their hands in the AHL or NHL before considering them no skill hacks? And the same for the players like DeBrinicat and others that players are annointing as the next Mario Lemieux?

A trade for hall wouldnt set us back 3 years. The only thing that would stop this trade is our lack of a number 1/2 defender available for trade.
- irishmiller33

Trading Simmonds, Sanheim or Provorov, and a high pick sets the team back..

I like Hall I'm just not willing to move a Simmonds, prospect and a pick for him.

If you can do it for Schenn then I might.

I think that people are just overreacting. Hextall and his scouts have way more of all these guys than we have, and have spoken personally with them and their coaches.

I dont think that Hexy is against drafting skilled offensive players. But in this draft, he preferred other players than some people on here, and I'm sure he has his reasons. So can we please let these guys try their hands in the AHL or NHL before considering them no skill hacks? And the same for the players like DeBrinicat and others that players are annointing as the next Mario Lemieux?
- jmatchett383

Hex did say he wanted skill and size. Did he achieve his goal?